Justin Bethel

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Why are people so hard on this guy. He's still learning the posution.

Whole freaking team got smoked today

Because he is extremely exploitable at the most crucial time of year.
 

Finito

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Because he is extremely exploitable at the most crucial time of year.

No he's really not.

The reality of the situation is no matter who we put out there on the other side of Peterson is going to get targeted well because your just not gonna throw against probably the best corner in the league.

He played very well in the GB game yet he was still critasized on this board. The more this team wins the more unrealistic this board becomes. Expectations of players go from being high to just being silly.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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No he's really not.

The reality of the situation is no matter who we put out there on the other side of Peterson is going to get targeted well because your just not gonna throw against probably the best corner in the league.

He played very well in the GB game yet he was still critasized on this board. The more this team wins the more unrealistic this board becomes. Expectations of players go from being high to just being silly.

No, he is.

He was able to make plays vs. GB BECAUSE OUR PASS RUSH WAS INCREDIBLE and AR made some bad throws to an often open Jones.
 

AZfaninMN

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I'm always full on kool-aid.

However, I disagree with those saying this game is meaningless or that the team didn't care/didn't try. I think that's just something people say to rationalize this ass kicking. If we were curb stomping them the way they are we'd be calling it a statement game, saying way to send a message, protect the nest, etc.

Bethel wasn't our only problem today. He didn't give up 36 points (as I write this). Our special teams were atrocious. At halftime Lockett had more total yards than our entire team, most of it on returns.

The next two weeks will be difficult not to respond with venom to the idiocy already starting.

There's nothing good to be taken from this beat down.


You're right because if we had stomped them it would have been because we were running our normal attacking defense. How many blitzes can you recall us throwing at them because I don't remember seeing one until the 3rd quarter. How many deep passes did we throw at them when they had 8 people in the box? None because we didn't throw a deep ball all game. It wasn't because Palmer didn't have time or the coverage was great. We didn't show them anything that they could show on film on how THEY played it and how THEY could make adjustments if we meet them in the playoffs. That's what I saw out of our team today and sure I would have liked to see us compete, but for the first time since preseason I wasn't pacing my basement hoping we would win, or getting mad if we didn't make a play we normally would because win or lose we have a bye next week.


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AZCrazy

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If he wants to start at corner, he needs to get better this whole coming offseason. It's going to be an open competition for CB2 next preseason, unless we sign a big FA. He'll have his shot, but he'll need to be good enough to play, not 'almost' good enough.
 

dogpoo32

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We all know how athletic he is, and how important he is to our special teams unit. He has had some tough breaks, a couple big plays have been made despite his good coverage. I don't know if he's a long-term solution at CB2, but hopefully Bettcher can find a good use for him. If I am not mistaken, Powers is going to be a FA after this season, so it would make sense to bring in at least 2 more CB's to compete, or be part of the heavy defensive backfield we use. Maybe we luck out and our 5th round gem will be a future stud CB. But no matter what, Bethel needs to keep getting better.
 

wa52lz

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I can't believe that Jones guy had 56 yds on Bethel, he's garbage

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Treesquid PhD

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He is a hero gunner on ST's. He has no value as a real NFL player beyond this. Good thing he is a ST stud, because he would not be on a roster based on his cover skills.
 

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Bethel has terrible ball skills. He'll turn his head and identify the ball but not make a play or react too slowly. I think he can improve his flaws.
 

Hypothesis

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Darkside and Hypothesis - still drinking the coolaid? Smoked again today...

Lol...what are you on dude? He gave up one touchdown...to Kearse and one other tight wire completion for 32 yards. He allowed a couple other short completions. IIRC he was also covering one of the hottest receivers in the league for the past 5 weeks in Baldwin for much of the game.

Peterson also gave up a touchdown (to Coffman) and got beat deep a couple times by Lockette, one which was overthrown and another when he wasn't targeted but was wide open. The touchdown to Tukuafu looked like it was a miscommunication between Minter and Bucannon. Not a single Seattle receiver had more than 46 yards.

We were killed in many different ways this game...Justin Bethel wasn't the sole reason we lost nor was he even the biggest culprit in this loss. We were manhandled across the board in this one, in all phases of the game.
 

Chopper0080

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Bethel needs work. But he has skills, and seems to be willing to learn and develop. I'm not upset with his play even though it isn;t at a high level. This is what you get when you are thin at a position. Personally, Bethel isn't as bad as I thought he would be.
 

Covert Rain

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Bethel is horrible and a huge liability. He is the playoff blueprint for any team we face in the playoffs.
 

b8rtm8nn

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Bethel is horrible and a huge liability. He is the playoff blueprint for any team we face in the playoffs.

He is the weakest link of our CBs, but you are being over-dramatic. Take out Bethel and put in Corey White so you can have a bigger liability. Bethel is CB4 (spot duty) playing CB2 due to the Honey Badger being out. At least Powers is a good slot CB because Bethel would be terrible there.

It is what it is.
 

unseenaz

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He is the weakest link of our CBs, but you are being over-dramatic. Take out Bethel and put in Corey White so you can have a bigger liability. Bethel is CB4 (spot duty) playing CB2 due to the Honey Badger being out. At least Powers is a good slot CB because Bethel would be terrible there.

It is what it is.

very true, and under appreciated aspect of this whole equation.

but, there are people in here acting like he's not a problem "he only gave up 1 TD" yeah, but when he gets beat, he looks BAD in the process. if you simply look at the box score, it's not so bad. when you roll the tape it's clear that's he's in over his head. just look at the TD, he was stumbling and bumbling before the receiver even had his hands on the ball. he gets shook off routes pretty easily, but he has the speed to recover so it might not look "that bad"
 

Covert Rain

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He is the weakest link of our CBs, but you are being over-dramatic. Take out Bethel and put in Corey White so you can have a bigger liability. Bethel is CB4 (spot duty) playing CB2 due to the Honey Badger being out. At least Powers is a good slot CB because Bethel would be terrible there.

It is what it is.

So...to restate it...Bethel is crap...we have worse crap behind him so oh well. We all know why he is there. It doesn't change the reality he is a liability out there. Green Bay spotted the weakness and Seattle game planned around it. What exactly do you think other playoff teams are going to do? Ignore it?

There is nothing dramatic about it. Smart teams will exploit your weakness until you prove you can stop it. It's smart football.
 

unseenaz

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So...to restate it...Bethel is crap...we have worse crap behind him so oh well. We all know why he is there. It doesn't change the reality he is a liability out there. Green Bay spotted the weakness and Seattle game planned around it. What exactly do you think other playoff teams are going to do? Ignore it?

There is nothing dramatic about it. Smart teams will exploit your weakness until you prove you can stop it. It's smart football.

Gotta dial up the pressure. How many times did we blitz yesterday? Not enough. 1- they were afraid of wilsons mobility (so instead we left the leagues QBR leader in a clean pocket) or 2- there's some merit to this whole "we were playing a vanilla defense!"
 

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he's not a very good CB. Okay depth guy but leaves a lot to be desired as a starter... which we're now paying him to be which scares me a little for next year.

http://overthecap.com/player/justin-bethel/401/

Check out Bethel's contract details. Next year he has a $1M salary and $3.5M cap number. I know that they published that $9M was guaranteed of the $15M, but that doesn't add up to me. It looks like the Cards could get out of this contract next year if Bethel remains a special teams guy.

Why are people so hard on this guy. He's still learning the posution.

Whole freaking team got smoked today

How is that possible? He's a four-year veteran in the NFL and has been getting meaningful practice reps at corner for three of those seasons. At this point, it's probably reasonable to wonder if he's going to be able to capitalize on those physical skills to become a skilled cornerback.

He's never had to earn a starting CB job – or managed to.

Bethel needs work. But he has skills, and seems to be willing to learn and develop. I'm not upset with his play even though it isn;t at a high level. This is what you get when you are thin at a position. Personally, Bethel isn't as bad as I thought he would be.

I think that Bethel is probably worse than what we've seen from William Gay and Jerroud Powers in the past. I think he can develop into an average #2 corner who needs to be supported by a strong pass rush, but I think you have to be concerned with the thought that this team has been begging him to make that advance for the last two years, and he's disappointed.

Bethel is horrible and a huge liability. He is the playoff blueprint for any team we face in the playoffs.

This is nonsense. It's hard to be a good corner in the NFL. Bethel is not the weak link in this defense — Kevin Minter is (probably).
 

Covert Rain

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This is nonsense. It's hard to be a good corner in the NFL. Bethel is not the weak link in this defense — Kevin Minter is (probably).

Now that is nonsense. Who said it was easy?!? That doesn't change his horrible play, other teams recognizing it or their plans to go after him. You thin kit's coincidence that once Green Bay figured they could target him that Seattle did it all day long?
 

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I'm not ready to toss in the towel on Bethel. He certainly needs more work, more practice and more live bullets. I don't know if he'll pan out at CB, but I still think it's too early to make a definitive statement about the situation...
And interestingly, on the Wilson to Kearse TD late in the 2nd quarter, I just happened to be keying on Rashad Johnson on that play (as RJ was lined up directly across from me). RJ, who normally has great ball skills, reacted very late and VERY slow once he recognized where the ball was going... It was of course a picture perfect throw by Wilson, and Bethel was beat (not badly, but beat nonetheless). However, I've seen plenty of plays like that where RJ reacts better and moves more quickly to make a play on the ball. Honestly, it seemed to me that he is still not anywhere close to being 100%.
 

kerouac9

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Now that is nonsense. Who said it was easy?!? That doesn't change his horrible play, other teams recognizing it or their plans to go after him. You thin kit's coincidence that once Green Bay figured they could target him that Seattle did it all day long?

Look: no one is riding Justin Bethel's behind harder than I am — I had him on my Goats list last week and this week:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/heroes-and-goats-packers-at-cardinals/

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/heroes-and-goats-seahawks-at-cardinals/

That said, if you think that we're seeing terrible CB play, you might want to do some research on the position. There was one play yesterday where Bethel was in perfect position and got his hands between the receiver's arms when the ball arrived, and the reception was still made.

That happens in the NFL; playing CB is hard.

I'd like Bethel to get better; we all do. But he's not playing like garbage. Teams are going after him because the alternative is to go after Patrick Peterson.

There's no shame in being less-good than Patrick Peterson.
 

82CardsGrad

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Look: no one is riding Justin Bethel's behind harder than I am — I had him on my Goats list last week and this week:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/heroes-and-goats-packers-at-cardinals/

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/heroes-and-goats-seahawks-at-cardinals/

That said, if you think that we're seeing terrible CB play, you might want to do some research on the position. There was one play yesterday where Bethel was in perfect position and got his hands between the receiver's arms when the ball arrived, and the reception was still made.

That happens in the NFL; playing CB is hard.

I'd like Bethel to get better; we all do. But he's not playing like garbage. Teams are going after him because the alternative is to go after Patrick Peterson.

There's no shame in being less-good than Patrick Peterson.

DITTO!
 

Covert Rain

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Look: no one is riding Justin Bethel's behind harder than I am — I had him on my Goats list last week and this week:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/heroes-and-goats-packers-at-cardinals/

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/heroes-and-goats-seahawks-at-cardinals/

That said, if you think that we're seeing terrible CB play, you might want to do some research on the position. There was one play yesterday where Bethel was in perfect position and got his hands between the receiver's arms when the ball arrived, and the reception was still made.

That happens in the NFL; playing CB is hard.

I'd like Bethel to get better; we all do. But he's not playing like garbage. Teams are going after him because the alternative is to go after Patrick Peterson.

There's no shame in being less-good than Patrick Peterson.

Research? As opposed to what? Having played? You might not want to assume. You are acting like I am saying he blew every play. You don't have to blow every play to be a below average to bad CB in this league. You have to do it often enough in key moments to blow defensive stops. You have to be weak enough at your position that others drift to your side to help out. By the way, the play you mentioned above I don't fault Bethel for one bit. He could not have played that play any better. Doesn't erase he got worked several other times.

I never doubted Bethel is playing hard and I don't expect him to be Patrick Peterson. That's ridiculous. It doesn't change the reality he is a liability the Cards are going to have to scheme to cover up. I guess it could be an incredible coincidence Seattle had such a game plan.

By the way, I don't disagree with you either on Minter.
 
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Chopper0080

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http://overthecap.com/player/justin-bethel/401/

Check out Bethel's contract details. Next year he has a $1M salary and $3.5M cap number. I know that they published that $9M was guaranteed of the $15M, but that doesn't add up to me. It looks like the Cards could get out of this contract next year if Bethel remains a special teams guy.



How is that possible? He's a four-year veteran in the NFL and has been getting meaningful practice reps at corner for three of those seasons. At this point, it's probably reasonable to wonder if he's going to be able to capitalize on those physical skills to become a skilled cornerback.

He's never had to earn a starting CB job – or managed to.



I think that Bethel is probably worse than what we've seen from William Gay and Jerroud Powers in the past. I think he can develop into an average #2 corner who needs to be supported by a strong pass rush, but I think you have to be concerned with the thought that this team has been begging him to make that advance for the last two years, and he's disappointed.



This is nonsense. It's hard to be a good corner in the NFL. Bethel is not the weak link in this defense — Kevin Minter is (probably).

Yes, Kevin Minter is the player I am worried about other teams exposing...and honestly, while he has been productive, I am also worried about teams beating up Bucannon in the run game. Both Minter and Bucannon are more matchup liabilities than Bethel is.
 
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