"It's like Looney Tunes around here" - A Suns source reveals how chaotic the organization is under new owner Mat Ishbia

Mainstreet

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Their heads are stuffed so far up their own butts that they don't even understand the problem, much less how to solve it.

It sounds like James Jones is still trying to sell the trade for Kevin Durant and the FO is in defensive mode.

The trade is done. Let's switch to making the team better instead of doubling down on a bad hand.
 

Yuma

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To be fair, we are a "couple" peices from having a good roster. Compare that to about a decade of futility we saw under Sarver, where we were like 8-10 guys away from having a good roster.
 
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Mainstreet

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I don't want the Suns FO to be in denial. Maybe the team can be fixed, maybe it can't.

I'd like them to honestly critique what went wrong with the team and let the chips fall where they may.

They will minimally need two more rotation players, but that's not a guaranteed fix with an injury or two a way.
 

leclerc

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As long as he keeps spending I am good. He will learn to balance. Dude runs a multi billion dollar empire. I think he can figure it out.
A sports club has a budget, true, and employees, but talent evaluation, aging curves, roster composition, these are maybe new to him.
 

1982baskets

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Not saying that I believe they know the issues, but I will say there's no way a GM is coming out to a press conference and blasting his players and holes, acting desperate, and then actually thinking he can negotiate a fair value trade.

He absolutely (and Ish) played it right. Act as if the team is in a good spot to the public. You don't want other GM's feeling or sensing blood.

The key will be whether they can in fact upgrade, particularly the PG spot. How will they do it? If they want a starting caliber PG. Similar to how the Wolves have Conley, they will need to move one of their current deemed "starters". They won't move the big 3 and Grayson just signed an extension, and so it comes down to Nurk.

Likely the move they need to make is move Nurk (for salary and giving back a starter purpose) + Little (Salary purpose) + future draft picks (which they say they will be willing to move) for a starting PG, and a starting big. That's about 25 million in salary going out and you have to take about the same back in. Cannot go over because of the rules.

Good luck finding that! What team has a starting PG/C combo that makes less than a combined 25 million, and wants draft picks? That's what we need to look for.
 

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Not saying that I believe they know the issues, but I will say there's no way a GM is coming out to a press conference and blasting his players and holes, acting desperate, and then actually thinking he can negotiate a fair value trade.

He absolutely (and Ish) played it right. Act as if the team is in a good spot to the public. You don't want other GM's feeling or sensing blood.

The key will be whether they can in fact upgrade, particularly the PG spot. How will they do it? If they want a starting caliber PG. Similar to how the Wolves have Conley, they will need to move one of their current deemed "starters". They won't move the big 3 and Grayson just signed an extension, and so it comes down to Nurk.

Likely the move they need to make is move Nurk (for salary and giving back a starter purpose) + Little (Salary purpose) + future draft picks (which they say they will be willing to move) for a starting PG, and a starting big. That's about 25 million in salary going out and you have to take about the same back in. Cannot go over because of the rules.

Good luck finding that! What team has a starting PG/C combo that makes less than a combined 25 million, and wants draft picks? That's what we need to look for.

They went beyond providing a false sense of security and came across as arrogant. You don't need to agree but 90% of people who saw the press conference echo that sentiment. They were just swept out of the first round and have no real flexibility.


As far as your idea to upgrade the roster, they can't aggregate salaries. Nurkic and Little can't be dealt together for a player making as much as they do combined. The second apron doesn't allow it. So your plan of improving somehow doesn't work.
 

Superbone

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This all reminds me of the meme of that cartoon dog sitting in flames saying everything is OK.
 

leclerc

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I agree we need to package Nurkic, or even one of the big three, for an actual point guard. What we cannot do is include draft picks :biglaugh::sad:

Trading Nurkic though, who will play PF or C? Don't say Durant. That is just in small ball line ups. What I want to happen is that they fire Vogel and Young now, and then start interviewing whenever. Not sure when is the best time to fire James Jones. Maybe when they have a replacement ready.
 

Raindog

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This all reminds me of the meme of that cartoon dog sitting in flames saying everything is OK.
Just wait until they announce that Vogel is coming back... with new assistants, apparently. That's the latest rumor. As if the assistant coaching was really the big problem. Uggh.
 

Covert Rain

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Just wait until they announce that Vogel is coming back... with new assistants, apparently. That's the latest rumor. As if the assistant coaching was really the big problem. Uggh.
Gambo and some of the guys have been hinting at this for days or an announced decision soon. One of the guys flat out said that the longer this goes on, the less likely Vogel is let go but he admits it's just talk he is hearing.
 

95pro

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Vogel is a good salesman, his positivity probably has the FO hooked again.
 

Raindog

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Vogel is a good salesman, his positivity probably has the FO hooked again.
Yeah, that's the problem. Too many of the guys who end up in roles like NBA head coach (or GM, like James Jones) are glib/smooth talkers but are utterly incompetent at their jobs.

Heck, that's probably true for most of the rest of the world, too... now that I think about it.
 

GatorAZ

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We just have to accept that Ishbia is totally lost if he thinks the assistants were the issue with this team. I feel like another wasted season is on the horizon and would rather blow it up completely if that’s the case.
 

Raindog

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We just have to accept that Ishbia is totally lost if he thinks the assistants were the issue with this team. I feel like another wasted season is on the horizon and would rather blow it up completely if that’s the case.
Indeed. It's beginning to look like they really aren't going to change anything except a couple assistant coaches and a few back of the bench players... and probably throw away a couple more draft picks in doing the latter.

Who is seriously going to want to watch next season as they stumble around and underachieve for another abortive season? There will undoubtedly be more injury issues, and I will be very surprised if they are much more than a .500 team by mid-season.

And you know Vogel is just going to do the same braindead and stubborn idiocy as this year. I would venture a guess he will probably be canned by mid-season if everything holds to form. And then you've just wasted another season before having to push the reset button with another coach. It really would be the definition of insanity.
 

Mainstreet

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Yeah, that's the problem. Too many of the guys who end up in roles like NBA head coach (or GM, like James Jones) are glib/smooth talkers but are utterly incompetent at their jobs.

Heck, that's probably true for most of the rest of the world, too... now that I think about it.

I consider James Jones anything but a smooth talker, but apparently what he is selling, the FO and ownership is buying.

Also, I so dislike fans being left in the dark about player personnel moves.
 

nashman

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I feel like you try to trade Nurk for a PG and then you try to find a good young big in the draft or even a euro big. You have an enough scorers you need a big that is a rim protector and plays D…
 

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This team has a coaching problem and a personnel problem.

This is a defensive-minded coach who did not get any kind of quality defense from a team that has been ok on defense in the past. His track record should have been an indication of that.

They went the super team with old guys route--a route that has bit numerous other teams in the backside and has done so for this team as well. They also do not have a floor general and with this many offensive weapons they really needed a pass-first pg with a defensive presence. Yes, Chris Paul, but not old Chris Paul. They needed a younger version of Chris Paul, even if it was a poorer version.

James Jones is a capable GM, but he built this team. I do not know how much of the Durant trade was him and how much was Ishbia. I don't think it matters. Jones has a solid head on his shoulders and will learn from this. Stability in the GM position I think is more important than sweeping clean.

We need a new coach if we can find one.

I do not know the "behind the scenes" culture. That could tell a much different story about team personnel.
 

95pro

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This team has a coaching problem and a personnel problem.

This is a defensive-minded coach who did not get any kind of quality defense from a team that has been ok on defense in the past. His track record should have been an indication of that.

They went the super team with old guys route--a route that has bit numerous other teams in the backside and has done so for this team as well. They also do not have a floor general and with this many offensive weapons they really needed a pass-first pg with a defensive presence. Yes, Chris Paul, but not old Chris Paul. They needed a younger version of Chris Paul, even if it was a poorer version.

James Jones is a capable GM, but he built this team. I do not know how much of the Durant trade was him and how much was Ishbia. I don't think it matters. Jones has a solid head on his shoulders and will learn from this. Stability in the GM position I think is more important than sweeping clean.

We need a new coach if we can find one.

I do not know the "behind the scenes" culture. That could tell a much different story about team personnel.
Team has been ok on defense in the past??? This team has barely played together. There were the injuries plus several guys left.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Team has been ok on defense in the past??? This team has barely played together. There were the injuries plus several guys left.
Right? I thought that was a weird comment. You can’t look at anything historically with this team other than Booker really.
 

Covert Rain

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Right? I thought that was a weird comment. You can’t look at anything historically with this team other than Booker really.
There have been multiple weird comments by this team recently.
 

Peter Sheldon

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I admire Ishbia's passion and willingness to spend, but the KD/Beal trades crushed us for years to come. I get the reasoning behind both trades, but we gave up way too much for KD. It looked at first like the Beal trade was smart considering we were losing an aging CP3 who was useless in the playoffs. Traded lack of value for value. Bad fit though. And the no-trade clause killed us and will keep killing us. And we still have no PG.

But, having said all that, having Ishbia's willingness to spend in the 00's would have led to a couple of championship banners methinks.

Watching these teams still in the playoffs battle around the rim with grit, size, youth and determination, and with stifling defense, I just think the Suns are built ENTIRELY wrong for the present state of the NBA. Not with the way the refs are calling (or not calling) the playoffs. We are fooling ourselves if we think a few small tweaks or coaching will get us there. It will take a full blowup. Booker/KD are great and all, but not built in their present states for the playoffs. Not even close.
 

Dan H

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Basically that just reiterates the previous comment that the Suns won't see a pic inside of 20 for many years, because if they tank the swaps become valuable to the other teams and if they stay mid, then their own pics will be too high. 1st round exit purgatory is on the horizon.

Stars have been picked later in the draft than 20 and there’s no salary cap on the scouting department or coaching staff.

If Ishbia really wants to win, he’s got a pathway. We need to identify the Rudy Goberts, Jimmy Butlers, and Gilbert Arenas type players and develop them.
 

Peter Sheldon

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Stars have been picked later in the draft than 20 and there’s no salary cap on the scouting department or coaching staff.

If Ishbia really wants to win, he’s got a pathway. We need to identify the Rudy Goberts, Jimmy Butlers, and Gilbert Arenas type players and develop them.
You have 5 years to wait?
But a good point.

Also, whoever scouts talent for Miami should get a blank check from Ishbia to join Suns. They are best in league at grabbing talent out of the weeds. Something the Suns have always been pathetic at. It might be the best decision for Suns Ishbia could make.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You have 5 years to wait?
But a good point.

Also, whoever scouts talent for Miami should get a blank check from Ishbia to join Suns. They are best in league at grabbing talent out of the weeds. Something the Suns have always been pathetic at. It might be the best decision for Suns Ishbia could make.
I love this idea. It’s way to maximize ishbia’s ability to spend without being handcuffed by the cba. Same with coaches and player development.
 
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