It is clear now. The problem is Kliff/Kyler

oaken1

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Colt McCoy is 3 and 1 playing with mostly backups in meaningful games early in the season.

Kyler Murray played his best game of a decent season against cleveland, while kliff was out with covid.


Kliff does not call the same game with Colt as he does with Kyler.... he should. That cleveland game was the closest we have ever seen of kyler running the types of plays that kliff dials up for mccoy.

I think given a traditional qb kliff could call a fine game and post winning seasons. However, he has this idea in his head of what kyler is.....and he tries to gameplan around that.
kyler on the other hand does not seem to want to run the type of offense kliff wants to call for him.

IMHO...if kliff dialed up the exact same gameplan for kyler that he does for Colt...we would see a far different kyler murray than we have been.

so the issue with our team isnt kliff or kyler... it is clearly kliff AND kyler....one of them has to go.
 

Shane

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I don’t believe Kyler can run the same game that Kliff calls for Colt. Colt has better field vision and patience. He can and does use the middle of the field more often. I don’t think you can just call the same game for Kyler that you do for Colt and think you’re gonna get equal results. There’s kind of a reason every single expert when Kyler was drafted basically stated that having Kliff and the O he runs is Taylor made for Kyler to have a seemless transition and more likely to have success. (So they thought)

Besides I fully believe Colt reads D better then Kyler. He’s an actual student of the game and that’s why he’s been in the league for a decade. For all we know Kliff did call a similar game and Colt sees The D and audibles and with his better field vision just makes better decisions.

I fully believe one has to go though. Either get a coach that can get Kyler up to where he needs to be. Or get a QB KK can actually coach.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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I don’t believe Kyler can run the same game that Kliff calls for Colt. Colt has better field vision and patience. He can and does use the middle of the field more often. I don’t think you can just call the same game for Kyler that you do for Colt and think you’re gonna get equal results. There’s kind of a reason every single expert when Kyler was drafted basically stated that having Kliff and the O he runs is Taylor made for Kyler to have a seemless transition and more likely to have success. (So they thought)

Besides I fully believe Colt reads D better then Kyler. He’s an actual student of the game and that’s why he’s been in the league for a decade. For all we know Kliff did call a similar game and Colt sees The D and audibles and with his better field vision just makes better decisions.

I fully believe one has to go though. Either get a coach that can get Kyler up to where he needs to be. Or get a QB KK can actually coach.
Not gonna type all the stuff I have in my head right now & your post sums up a lot of it anyway, great post Shane. 2 things though.


1. Colt can see the field & Kyler struggles with that because of his height.


2. Colt has a higher football IQ & reads the defense.
 

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Shocking that a 10+ year vet can read a D better than a younger guy. A career backup has lots of time to study and watch film just sayin. Can’t wait to see what happens next, things won’t be as smooth against a decent team. Things went extremely well today guys who can’t catch did, little to no penalties, you know the basic stuff that this team continuously does that kills us didn’t happen today. Did this team all of a sudden fix everything…highly improbable.
 

BullheadCardFan

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Besides I fully believe Colt reads D better then Kyler. He’s an actual student of the game and that’s why he’s been in the league for a decade. For all we know Kliff did call a similar game and Colt sees The D and audibles and with his better field vision just makes better decisions.
100% this

Colt was making reads and adjustments in his mind before the ball was even snapped

Then he went through his reads and make quick, decisive throws

This is something KM is unable to do at this level and that's why he needs to put in more work to learn to read the defense so he can make adjustments instead of just winging it
 

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Shocking that a 10+ year vet can read a D better than a younger guy. A career backup has lots of time to study and watch film just sayin. Can’t wait to see what happens next, things won’t be as smooth against a decent team. Things went extremely well today guys who can’t catch did, little to no penalties, you know the basic stuff that this team continuously does that kills us didn’t happen today. Did this team all of a sudden fix everything…highly improbable.

This is some weak ****.

Kyler has 3701 NFL snaps.

Colt McCoy has 859.

There is no learning curve where the old guy with far less experience knows more just because of age. After 3 years starting and 3000+ snaps Kyler should be on top of his game. Like say... Tua, Herbert, Burrow etc who have less years than Kyler.

Have you considered the crap didn't happen today because Kyler wasn't playing? I'm guessing not.
 

AZCB34

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Shocking that a 10+ year vet can read a D better than a younger guy. A career backup has lots of time to study and watch film just sayin. Can’t wait to see what happens next, things won’t be as smooth against a decent team. Things went extremely well today guys who can’t catch did, little to no penalties, you know the basic stuff that this team continuously does that kills us didn’t happen today. Did this team all of a sudden fix everything…highly improbable.
He has no more time than Kyler to work on his craft. They are both in the same practice sessions. They are both in all the same meetings. I get you hate Kliff but at least make sense when you are hating on him. And, yes, I am aware of the irony in me saying that so dispense with searching out any of my posts to refute my statement.
 

nashman

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He has no more time than Kyler to work on his craft. They are both in the same practice sessions. They are both in all the same meetings. I get you hate Kliff but at least make sense when you are hating on him. And, yes, I am aware of the irony in me saying that so dispense with searching out any of my posts to refute my statement.
Well that’s just not true 10+ years in the league and learning real NFL offenses and defenses is far more TIME than Kyler has under a pathetic coaching staff but whatever…
 

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I think the offense and calls are very similar with Murray and McCoy, however how each QB interprets the calls and what he sees on the field is the difference. Case in point, that I mentioned on another thread and on Twitter, is how when a WR was clearly called - Colt looked over, saw it wasn't set up well then looks downfield a few yards and hits Hopkins for a 10 yard gain. Murray isn't looking off those types of plays to see what else is developing and just as easy to throw.
 

Shane

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Well that’s just not true 10+ years in the league and learning real NFL offenses and defenses is far more TIME than Kyler has under a pathetic coaching staff but whatever…

He’s had two seasons of Colt in the same meetings and practices to pick his ear and learn all the nuances and defenses. You can learn a ton In two seasons if you want to put in the time. The key is “wanting to put in the time” as opposed to wanting to lift weights all the time. Which I don’t see the point when you are completely contact adverse.
 
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Shane

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I think the offense and calls are very similar with Murray and McCoy, however how each QB interprets the calls and what he sees on the field is the difference. Case in point, that I mentioned on another thread and on Twitter, is how when a WR was clearly called - Colt looked over, saw it wasn't set up well then looks downfield a few yards and hits Hopkins for a 10 yard gain. Murray isn't looking off those types of plays to see what else is developing and just as easy to throw.

100
 

nashman

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He’s had two seasons of Colt in the same meetings and practices to pick his ear and learn all the nuances and defenses. You can learn a to. In two season if you want to put in the time. The key is “wanting to out in the time” as opposed to wanting to lift weights all the time. Which I don’t see the point when you are completely contact adverse.
Oh I would agree that he still has a lot to learn and needs to mature to that point. But young guys now lol it’s a different world I have a 22yr old son who is still far to immature imo but that has a lot to do with his mother haha. He needs to mature and put in more work at his craft 100%…
 

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Oh I would agree that he still has a lot to learn and needs to mature to that point. But young guys now lol it’s a different world I have a 22yr old son who is still far to immature imo but that has a lot to do with his mother haha. He needs to mature and put in more work at his craft 100%…

Its not as if there are several younger but more mature QBs in the league to disprove this.

Oh wait, there are.
 

nashman

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Its not as if there are several younger but more mature QBs in the league to disprove this.

Oh wait, there are.
There are a few but don’t let that get in the way of reality. Many QBs in the history of the NFL weren’t great for years it took time. But since you like wasting time go ahead and name all of these fantastic young mature QBs that are so great early on?
 
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BritCard

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There are a few but don’t let that get in the way of reality. Many QBs in the history of the NFL weren’t great for years it took time. But since you like wasting time go ahead and name all of these fantastic young mature QBs that are so great early on?

Herbert
Burrow
Tua
Hurts
Lamar

Josh Allen was more mature at the same age. As was Mahomes.

He's basically the least mature 25 year old 4th year QB ever. Name one less mature.
 

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I don’t believe Kyler can run the same game that Kliff calls for Colt.
THIS is the biggest question before us.

Did Kliff finally successfully adjust his gameplan resulting in overperformance by McCoy?

-OR-

Does Kliff not have the ability/confidence to call that same kind of gameplan because of Murray's limitations/flaws?

It's up in the air, but I'll tell you that McCoy's 3-1 record seems to put some weight on the second question.
 

Stout

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Oh I would agree that he still has a lot to learn and needs to mature to that point. But young guys now lol it’s a different world I have a 22yr old son who is still far to immature imo but that has a lot to do with his mother haha. He needs to mature and put in more work at his craft 100%…
All of this is true. He's just way, way behind the curve on development at this point.
 

kerouac9

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Herbert
Burrow
Tua
Hurts
Lamar

Josh Allen was more mature at the same age. As was Mahomes.

He's basically the least mature 25 year old 4th year QB ever. Name one less mature.
Remember when Jets QB Mark Sanchez was caught on tape eating a hot dog on the sideline during a game?
 

AZCB34

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All of this is true. He's just way, way behind the curve on development at this point.
And what is the best way to get ahead of the curve on development? It starts with the players putting in the extra work.

<cue nashman pounding the table about bad coaching>

Yes, coaching is critical as well but when the backup succeeds like Colt did in a game plan that, to my layman’s eyes, didn’t look all that dissimilar to what it has been the other games, maybe the coaching isn’t as bad as it seems?

And no, I am not saying Kliff is a good coach or anything like that so…
 

wit3card

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After this game, many not if all have more question marks. Basically, if KM is out till after the bye week and colt can at least win one of the next games, you might have to figure out if KM is the QB we need.

But one question is answered, the Contract extension KM got, seems bad, and the timing was totally wrong and the Cards should have stayed firm on the 5th year option. But yeah, it is what it is.
 

cardpa

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Shocking that a 10+ year vet can read a D better than a younger guy. A career backup has lots of time to study and watch film just sayin. Can’t wait to see what happens next, things won’t be as smooth against a decent team. Things went extremely well today guys who can’t catch did, little to no penalties, you know the basic stuff that this team continuously does that kills us didn’t happen today. Did this team all of a sudden fix everything…highly improbable.
And Murray doesn't have as much time, really????????????? Maybe McCoy just commits more time to doing the film study and game planning more than Murry does.
 

nashman

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And Murray doesn't have as much time, really????????????? Maybe McCoy just commits more time to doing the film study and game planning more than Murry does.
13th year 4th year not rocket science dude Colt should know a hell of a lot more and does because he is VERY experienced, and has had NFL quality coaching. What quality coaching has Kyler had up til this point in his NFL career?
 

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I think the offense and calls are very similar with Murray and McCoy, however how each QB interprets the calls and what he sees on the field is the difference. Case in point, that I mentioned on another thread and on Twitter, is how when a WR was clearly called - Colt looked over, saw it wasn't set up well then looks downfield a few yards and hits Hopkins for a 10 yard gain. Murray isn't looking off those types of plays to see what else is developing and just as easy to throw.
It's funny you bring this up because this happened on at least two occasions. I wasn't sure if it was by design or just by the QB read. They setup the bubble screen like usual but instead Colt did a little shoulder pump fake and then threw over the top to Hopkins once he cleared the DB.
I wondered why they never tried this before. Because Kyler would always just throw to the WR behind the line without hesitation, which usually amounted to a negative yard play.
 

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