Impeachment

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by Ouchie-Z-Clown, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. ajcardfan

    ajcardfan I see you. Contributor

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    Sure, both parties have bad people. But that doesn't mean the wrongdoing is equal at this point in time. To me, that is the flaw in this "but both...." argument. Yes, it sucks to choose between the lesser of two evils, but less evil is better than more evil. Right?
     
  2. LoyaltyisaCurse

    LoyaltyisaCurse IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...

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    Agrees. Ratio of 10 bad acts to 2 bad acts is not an equitable “both sides” argument. Context and concentration matters. The false equivalency is what allows the majority of Americans to excuse away bad behavior and stay in their corners.
     
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  3. elindholm

    elindholm edited for content

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    But there is evidence, a ton of it. What you're saying is like bringing a critically ill patient to a doctor, getting treatment, and then saying "Well I bet the doctor would have treated him even if he hadn't been sick, because that's what doctors do."
     
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  4. DWKB

    DWKB Registered

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    Position matters as well. The amount of power wielded by a State level legislator pales compared to Federal, which doesn’t compare to Executive.

    Especially given unitary executive theory
     
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  5. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    I think the problem most people have is that in making that statement you seem to equalize the two.

    I have no problem with that comment in a vacuum. I have zero issue with stating both parties are corrupt. But there are levels to the corruption. And there are types of corruption.

    for instance, I staunchly believe that every administration since the origination of our nation has lied to the public. But there’s a difference in lies and the systematic institutionalization of misinfinformatin and degredation of the press. Do I think Obama lied? Absolutely. About what, I have no idea. But he didn’t attempt to institutionalize lying and destabilize news gatherers. That’s dangerous.

    and the abandonment of the rule of law when it suits an administration is an issue. This isn’t a partisan issue. Watergate is a great example of what we should be witnessing now, but we are not.

    also the steps being taken by the GOP around the country to undermine the power of voters like gerrymandering and removing powers of incoming democratic governors. Those things are beyond the scope of what our elected officials are supposed to do. If you can conjure up similar acts by current Dems I’d condemn those as well. But we aren’t seeing that, are we? I mean you say they’re both corrupt, but the reason this forum is overwhelmingly full of threads about GOP corruption is because there seems to be no end to their actions creating the threads. When a dem does something (like the Virginia governor is black face or Ilhan Omar’s antisemitic comments) we discuss those too. And we condemn if there’s reason. There’s just not nearly as much smoke on that side of the aisle.

    Believe it or not I’m a centrists as well. Tend to skew left socially and right fiscally. But beyond the politics is my fervent desire to live in a country where intelligence, honesty, and the rule of law and decency prevail. And while neither party may be perfect on all those counts, I can’t help but see the mountain of turds on those ideals with the GOP at present. In no world was pre-President trump thought to be honest or decent. Just because he was elected under one party’s flag now people identifying as GOP are willing to fabricate reality to fit their narrative. To the detriment of our nation.
     
  6. Ouchie-Z-Clown

    Ouchie-Z-Clown I'm better than Mulli!

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    I get it. I live in the reddest part (Orange County) of the bluest state in the country (California). My left leaning social morays aren’t appreciated even if they agree with my fiscal leanings
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  7. Kel Varnsen

    Kel Varnsen Moderator Contributor

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    They’re just so dumb.


     
  8. LoyaltyisaCurse

    LoyaltyisaCurse IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...

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    :clapping:
    :clapping:
     
  9. DWKB

    DWKB Registered

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    This is the problem with disengagement. You can’t properly asses the information and are forced to rely on superficial speculative positions absent of the facts on the ground. It all becomes a reality show that encourages the trash we see in our politics now.

    The byproduct is your in no position as a citizen to defend your country from insidious attacks.
     
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  10. Dback Jon

    Dback Jon Killer Snail Contributor

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    Then ask yourself, can America survive another four years of Trump? I don't think it can. And this isn't can America survive another 4 years of Conservatives/Republicans, etc. But Trump and his minions with their lack of respect for America
     
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  11. Dback Jon

    Dback Jon Killer Snail Contributor

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    Now you are quoting Fox News talking points.

    the Clinton Foundation has an A rating. The Trump Foundation was shut down for fraud. Hunter Biden - well, if the son of an ex-VP bothers you, what do you think about the multi-million deals the siblings of the CURRENT President are selling for favors?

    Completely different level of influence peddling.

    But to you, it seems that shoplifting a candy bar and robbing 100 banks are equivalent.
     
  12. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    He also admitted that he should have seen that the military aid was clearly linked to Ukraine announcing investigations, he said he didn't see it at the time it didn't become clear until his oct 3 testimony. I don't believe that he clearly knew it before IMO, but he's now admitted it's true.

    So now he'll be a Never Trumper too
     
  13. Russ Smith

    Russ Smith The Original Whizzinator Contributor

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    The Hunter Biden thing LOOKS bad but there's absolutely no evidence it was anything but him being offered a job, needing a job, and taking it. The irony is off the charts, the GOP is defending Trump by saying that's not quid pro quo or bribery, he may have attempted to, but it didn't work. Burisma may have attempted to hire Hunter Biden to get favorable treatment from the US because of dad Joe, but they didn't. In fact Joe ordered them to fire the guy who was refusing to investigate Burisma and other alleged corruption. It doesn't appear at all he tried to protect his son there. It looks bad, but so far it doesn't seem like Burisma got anything tangible out of it.

    Another 4 years of Trump would set this country back 20 or more years. 4 more years for him to stack the courts. I know people said it the last time and Republicans said it about Obama but if Trump gets re-elected I not only know people who will leave the country, I may very well be one of them. That should frighten people because if lots of Dems just give up and leave because of all the corruption and gerrymandering etc it would make it even worse.

    That's why I get mad when people for example are ok with trampling the rights of immigrants, or gay people, or black people etc. At a certain point you have to realize if you don't stand up for others because it doesn't impact you, who the hell is going to stand up for you when it finally DOES impact you? I hate to compare things to Hitler it's such a horrible thing, but it was people ignoring his treatment of Jews and other things that allowed him to rise to that level of power. They felt disenfranchised he convinced them to blame others, and then they kept thinking ok well at least it's Jews, or England, or someone else he's not after me he's after them.

    I'm not saying Trump is going to start WW3 but the longer he's in power and giving people like Steven Miller and Hannity and Tucker with an F power, the harder it's going to be to undo the damage they do. And IF people actually start leaving, so there's less people to resist, that's a terrifying thought. I don't think America as we know it can handle another 2 years of trump, but 5(next year plus 4) that's a horrifying thought.
     
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  14. nidan

    nidan Oscar Contributor

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    How is this releva
    I ?

    To anybody not in the cult Trump is clearly abusing his power amoung other crimes. Pointing the Bidens and 2016 is just a deliberate distraction.

    Sure at some point the wheel may turn and the Demoracts are the corrupt ones but for now the GOp and Trump are far ahead of them.
     
  15. nidan

    nidan Oscar Contributor

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    Hunter Biden is the same a Ivanka only less so and has nothing to do with this.

    He could be guilty of many things and it would not change Trump's guilt
     
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