I don't see it

[Mainstreet]

Depends how you look at it. In game 2 with the exception of just not having threes falling the starters seemed to do a pretty solid job against the Jazz starters. When the starters were off the floor they were replaced by a few guys that won’t see much minutes this year.

I thought the Suns defense was bad in both games against the Jazz.

A case can be made the starters were better than the bench but if the Suns want to win, like in Orlando, they are going to need more help from the bench. Can I blame it on a bunch of new players and key players not playing, sure. But the way the Suns played was poor except for a few players like Booker, Bridges and one or two others.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think the whole roster turnover thing is a bit overblown. All we have essentially done is add to our bubble rotation.

In the bubble we played an eight man rotation and seven of those eight players are returning.

We have simply swapped Rubio for Paul and added some more depth to the rotation. I don’t think we will see much of Nader, Motley or Jones during the regular season barring injury.

We will see mostly our seven players returning from the bubble along with Paul, Crowder, Moore and Galloway.

To be fair that is more turnover than some teams (Utah being a good example), but it’s not a huge amount of turnover.

Edit: Add Smith to the new guys who will see some playing time.

I think you're significantly understating the possible impact here. From a chemistry standpoint you are removing probably the two most important individuals (Oubre and Rubio) and adding nine new question marks. That's huge, potentially. On the court, we're looking at maybe 13 players that are expecting playing time. That's a lot of problems to solve and a lot of players to bring together in such a short time. I'm not saying it's unsurvivable, just that it is a concern and was predictable.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I think you're significantly understating the possible impact here. From a chemistry standpoint you are removing probably the two most important individuals (Oubre and Rubio) and adding nine new question marks. That's huge, potentially. On the court, we're looking at maybe 13 players that are expecting playing time. That's a lot of problems to solve and a lot of players to bring together in such a short time. I'm not saying it's unsurvivable, just that it is a concern and was predictable.

Oubre didn’t play a minute of the bubble. The only player that played in the rotation in the bubble that is gone is Rubio. We will not have 9 new players playing any sort of significant roles on this team.

We will have at most 5 new players in the rotation and even that seems a bit unlikely because the rotation likely won’t be more than 10 players.

I would say at least 6 of the guys in the bubble rotation will be in the regular rotation this year therefor it will be maybe 4 new players being integrated in and at least 2 of them will be bench players.

 

[Yuma]

Behind the scenes: roster turnover is a big issue, a lot of new guys have to learn new schemes, terms and plays

On the court: key players are missing from the lineups, coaching staff is trying to figure out roles for the new players on the team.

Things will start to smooth over the next 2 weeks.

The biggest concern is Ayton. Booker is in mid-season form and ready to go, CP3 is seasoned and knows what to do. Ayton, still too passive, still not aggressive, still lost in the game. Its year 3, he's been disappointing to say the least. You have other guys ready to play, i mean freagin Zion was injured and missed a lot of time, came out and had a good preseason debut. We've also seen rookies like Jalen Smith and Toppin attack the rim already in preseason, i dont think i've ever seen Ayton attack without being set up.

The problem was the third scorer on offense. If Oubre or Rubio had a big night we usually won. However, they were not consistently scoring like that each night! So it was always a challenge to see who would step up and be that third scorer for us on any given night! With CP3 he is consistent. It may only be 15 ca night, but you can pretty much pencil that in each night! So we will be more consistent on offense, imho.

 

[1Sun]

I would say a number of NBA teams have had significant roster turnover, it's not just the Suns. As I noted previously, the Jazz are an exception. However, the Suns can't use this as an alibi because excuses never end. The issue is not the Suns have lost their first two preseason games, it's that they have not played well doing it.

Precisely.

 

[1Sun]

I thought the Suns defense was bad in both games against the Jazz.

A case can be made the starters were better than the bench but if the Suns want to win, like in Orlando, they are going to need more help from the bench. Can I blame it on a bunch of new players and key players not playing, sure. But the way the Suns played was poor except for a few players like Booker, Bridges and one or two others.

Bridges offensively, Booker in Game 2 only, Galloway and a few flashes from an obviously raw Smith have been the only positives so far.

 

[1Sun]

The problem was the third scorer on offense. If Oubre or Rubio had a big night we usually won. However, they were not consistently scoring like that each night! So it was always a challenge to see who would step up and be that third scorer for us on any given night! With CP3 he is consistent. It may only be 15 ca night, but you can pretty much pencil that in each night! So we will be more consistent on offense, imho.

Not if Paul continues to shoot 2 for 7 from the field...

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not if Paul continues to shoot 2 for 7 from the field...

Do you really think he will? I think his age and health are far more likely to be evident in his availability than an actual decline in his ability.

 

[1Sun]

Do you really think he will? I think his age and health are far more likely to be evident in his availability than an actual decline in his ability.

Given what I saw Monday, I think it will be both. Paul really did look like the Lakers version of Steve Nash or the Wizards version of Michael Jordan.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not trying to be dramatic but are you suggesting the season is basically over after we lose our next two games against the Lakers? Regardless, I think it may well take more than just 4 preseason games to bring this group together.

Yes you are being dramatic. No, I am suggesting before anybody really gets any sense at all (not that it's a final verdict) we should wait a few games to see what we may or may not have.

I believe you were against the trade but I don't recall why. I was not against it per say as long as the Suns were in fact making a run now which was going to require another move IMO. If they were going to half ass this move or simply do it to put more in the W column then I was against this as well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yes you are being dramatic. No, I am suggesting before anybody really gets any sense at all (not that it's a final verdict) we should wait a few games to see what we may or may not have.

I believe you were against the trade but I don't recall why. I was not against it per say as long as the Suns were in fact making a run now which was going to require another move IMO. If they were going to half ass this move or simply do it to put more in the W column then I was against this as well.

I was against the trade because I wanted us to have some continuity for the first time in a decade. We've churned our roster every season to a degree I've never seen before in this league. With a few changes (a rookie and an FA or two at most) I liked our roster and thought it was a mistake to make wholesale changes. Plus I've made no secret the past few years that Chris Paul has become one of my least favorite players to watch.

I don't believe this notion that he's all of a sudden the 7th best player in the game just because he was 7th in MVP voting. He had a nice season but he was helped by a great coach and a better roster than people realize but mostly because he escaped a lot of wear and tear thanks to the shortened season plus the extended in-season break.

On the positive side, I recognized that even if Paul isn't the 7th best player, he showed he can still lead a team and as a complete player he'd be an upgrade over Rubio. And (something I gave little thought to prior to the trade) for a short while we've become relevant in a positive way - if we don't blow it, that could bode well for free agents the next few seasons.

Anyway, I didn't think it would be a horrible decision, just that the risks outweighed the advantages. But here we are and the reasons for making the trade and the chance that we will succeed because of it remain the same. A poor showing in preseason or the first few weeks of the season don't change our potential IMO. If Paul and the team stay healthy, they should be a threat to make the playoffs and maybe even advance.

 

[1Sun]

I was against the trade because I wanted us to have some continuity for the first time in a decade. We've churned our roster every season to a degree I've never seen before in this league. With a few changes (a rookie and an FA or two at most) I liked our roster and thought it was a mistake to make wholesale changes. Plus I've made no secret the past few years that Chris Paul has become one of my least favorite players to watch.

I don't believe this notion that he's all of a sudden the 7th best player in the game just because he was 7th in MVP voting. He had a nice season but he was helped by a great coach and a better roster than people realize but mostly because he escaped a lot of wear and tear thanks to the shortened season plus the extended in-season break.

On the positive side, I recognized that even if Paul isn't the 7th best player, he showed he can still lead a team and as a complete player he'd be an upgrade over Rubio. And (something I gave little thought to prior to the trade) for a short while we've become relevant in a positive way - if we don't blow it, that could bode well for free agents the next few seasons.

Anyway, I didn't think it would be a horrible decision, just that the risks outweighed the advantages. But here we are and the reasons for making the trade and the chance that we will succeed because of it remain the same. A poor showing in preseason or the first few weeks of the season don't change our potential IMO. If Paul and the team stay healthy, they should be a threat to make the playoffs and maybe even advance.

I was hoping Oubre would be traded for a starting power forward (since I didn't think he would re-sign here, anyway), and that we would use free agency and the draft to fill out the bench. Had Oubre been traded for someone like Aaron Gordon, Lauri Markkanen or Myles Turner, had we signed a solid veteran point guard to back up Rubio in free agency instead of signing Crowder, and had we added a veteran center better than Jones, then the rest of what we did in the offseason (drafting Smith, signing Galloway and Moore, re-signing Saric and Carter, and letting Baynes and Okobo go) would actually have us in a better position, in my opinion, both short term and long term.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was hoping Oubre would be traded for a starting power forward (since I didn't think he would re-sign here, anyway), and that we would use free agency and the draft to fill out the bench. Had Oubre been traded for someone like Aaron Gordon, Lauri Markkanen or Myles Turner, had we signed a solid veteran point guard to back up Rubio in free agency instead of signing Crowder, and had we added a veteran center better than Jones, then the rest of what we did in the offseason (drafting Smith, signing Galloway and Moore, re-signing Saric and Carter, and letting Baynes and Okobo go) would actually have us in a better position, in my opinion, both short term and long term.

That wouldn't have been a bad way to go but I'm pretty sure you'd be disappointed in Gordon in fairly short order. Myles would have been a nice addition and if you can undo whatever that Chicago coach did to Lauri's game and his mental state, he'd have been a great fit too. Personally, I would have kept Oubre at least till midseason. But to be fair, I actually like a lot of the players we've added, I just thought roster continuity would have been an even greater boon than all those changes.

 

[1Sun]

That wouldn't have been a bad way to go but I'm pretty sure you'd be disappointed in Gordon in fairly short order. Myles would have been a nice addition and if you can undo whatever that Chicago coach did to Lauri's game and his mental state, he'd have been a great fit too. Personally, I would have kept Oubre at least till midseason. But to be fair, I actually like a lot of the players we've added, I just thought roster continuity would have been an even greater boon than all those changes.

I do as well, but seeing how old, slow and frail Chris Paul looks, I don't see how he gets us where we need to go. A trade for Paul would appear to have been more appropriate for a team like the Bucks or Clippers, or even the post-Klay-injury Warriors, where a wily veteran like Paul, added to an already stacked roster, might have pushed a team over the top. He doesn't seem to have enough in the tank to carry as much of the load as the Suns will need from him. And that being the case, the Suns would have been better off with the continuity of Rubio at the point and using the remaining money that is now going to Paul on other parts of the roster instead...

 

[AzStevenCal]

I do as well, but seeing how old, slow and frail Chris Paul looks, I don't see how he gets us where we need to go. A trade for Paul would appear to have been more appropriate for a team like the Bucks or Clippers, or even the post-Klay-injury Warriors, where a wily veteran like Paul, added to an already stacked roster, might have pushed a team over the top. He doesn't seem to have enough in the tank to carry as much of the load as the Suns will need from him. And that being the case, the Suns would have been better off with the continuity of Rubio at the point and using the remaining money that is now going to Paul on other parts of the roster instead...

Speed really hasn't been a part of Paul's game for awhile now but he still manages to get where he wants to go on offense. The big hit will be on defense. On paper, his defense isn't bad but he won't have a big man like Adams in the middle backstopping his play. Ayton is a decent defender most of the time but man would I love to see him approach the game with the physicality and aggressiveness of the far less gifted Steven Adams.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was hoping Oubre would be traded for a starting power forward (since I didn't think he would re-sign here, anyway), and that we would use free agency and the draft to fill out the bench. Had Oubre been traded for someone like Aaron Gordon, Lauri Markkanen or Myles Turner, had we signed a solid veteran point guard to back up Rubio in free agency instead of signing Crowder, and had we added a veteran center better than Jones, then the rest of what we did in the offseason (drafting Smith, signing Galloway and Moore, re-signing Saric and Carter, and letting Baynes and Okobo go) would actually have us in a better position, in my opinion, both short term and long term.

I lost track of Myles Turner after the swirl of him being traded to the Celtics for Gordon Hayward. He is a player I still like for the Suns. Hope he remains available in trade for awhile.

There were rumors Thomas Bryant might be traded for him.

 

[AzCards777]

I'm the eternal optimist - I swore Buddy Ryan would get the Cards to the playoffs - but I just don't think this Suns team merits the hype it seems to be getting from local media and guys like LeBron.

I think we're still middling and destined to fall outside of the pack. What am I missing?

I think we'll be fine. You have to understand that we are still missing two key pieces in Cam Johnson who can light it up from 3 and Saric. They will solidify the bench. Cp3 has not been Cp3. He is mainly being a ficilitator at the moment ... but when needed he can turn it up and give us the scoring we need.

I liked what Crowder gives us, w the 3 and D. If he and Bridges can hit their 3's we will be hard to stop.

Now im not saying we will be top 4... but i can definitely see us as a 6 or 7 seed. Just my 2 cents.

 

[1Sun]

I think we'll be fine. You have to understand that we are still missing two key pieces in Cam Johnson who can light it up from 3 and Saric. They will solidify the bench. Cp3 has not been Cp3. He is mainly being a ficilitator at the moment ... but when needed he can turn it up and give us the scoring we need.

I liked what Crowder gives us, w the 3 and D. If he and Bridges can hit their 3's we will be hard to stop.

Now im not saying we will be top 4... but i can definitely see us as a 6 or 7 seed. Just my 2 cents.

Do you know that for sure on Paul? He hasn't been able to hit the broad side of a barn, and he looks a full 2 steps slower than last season.

Crowder definitely showed the 3 tonight. Not so much the D, where he looked a step slow.

This team still has a long way to go, and unless CP3 actually starts being CP3 again, rather than what we have observed in preseason, this team will end up worse than last year's team and more closely resemble the team from the year before, as we would be back to not having a decent point guard on the roster.

I already miss Ricky Rubio.

 

[AzCards777]

Do you know that for sure on Paul? He hasn't been able to hit the broad side of a barn, and he looks a full 2 steps slower than last season.

Crowder definitely showed the 3 tonight. Not so much the D, where he looked a step slow.

This team still has a long way to go, and unless CP3 actually starts being CP3 again, rather than what we have observed in preseason, this team will end up worse than last year's team and more closely resemble the team from the year before, as we would be back to not having a decent point guard on the roster.

I already miss Ricky Rubio.

Yes I am certain Paul will be Paul. When has he not produced in the league. He's the type that will lay it all on the line to get a win.

I'll give you that on Crowders Defense. Maybe not as effective on the defensive side as I remember. Then again he was gaurding AD.

To yout last point, I believe this team is going to be better than last years squad. The only thing that scares me is the lack of back up point gaurd play. I hope we can get the Bubble versions of Payne and Carter.

 

[95pro]

I think we'll be fine. You have to understand that we are still missing two key pieces in Cam Johnson who can light it up from 3 and Saric. They will solidify the bench. Cp3 has not been Cp3. He is mainly being a ficilitator at the moment ... but when needed he can turn it up and give us the scoring we need.

I liked what Crowder gives us, w the 3 and D. If he and Bridges can hit their 3's we will be hard to stop.

Now im not saying we will be top 4... but i can definitely see us as a 6 or 7 seed. Just my 2 cents.

With a short camp and player integration, he's coaching and getting the guys up to speed during games to know what to expect, where to stand, when to cut, when a pass could come, etc. He's seasoned enough to where i know he can put the ball in the hoop himself. Right now its about integrating his style of play into the rest of the new and old guys.

 

[sdscard4]

Do you know that for sure on Paul? He hasn't been able to hit the broad side of a barn, and he looks a full 2 steps slower than last season.

Crowder definitely showed the 3 tonight. Not so much the D, where he looked a step slow.

This team still has a long way to go, and unless CP3 actually starts being CP3 again, rather than what we have observed in preseason, this team will end up worse than last year's team and more closely resemble the team from the year before, as we would be back to not having a decent point guard on the roster.

I already miss Ricky Rubio.

Again your credibility in player evaluation is almost zero. Every player or addition has been bashed by you constantly. Same on the Dbacks forum so seeing you bring them into your analysis doesnt surprise me one bit.

 

[1Sun]

Yes I am certain Paul will be Paul. When has he not produced in the league. He's the type that will lay it all on the line to get a win.

I'll give you that on Crowders Defense. Maybe not as effective on the defensive side as I remember. Then again he was gaurding AD.

To yout last point, I believe this team is going to be better than last years squad. The only thing that scares me is the lack of back up point gaurd play. I hope we can get the Bubble versions of Payne and Carter.

And Shaq produced in the NBA until he came here. Father Time loses to nobody. It's just a matter of when, not if, it beats you. It looks like we traded for Paul right on the brink of his inevitable final, steep decline.

Crowder also has only played one game. I will give him a little time. At least he didn't look as slow as CP3 and contributed something positive.

We have seen what happens when this team, including this core, doesn't have a reliable point guard (see, e.g., the games Rubio missed last year). Someone needs to step up there, or we will suffer the same fate...

 

[Yuma]

And Shaq produced in the NBA until he came here. Father Time loses to nobody. It's just a matter of when, not if, it beats you. It looks like we traded for Paul right on the brink of his inevitable final, steep decline.

Crowder also has only played one game. I will give him a little time. At least he didn't look as slow as CP3 and contributed something positive.

We have seen what happens when this team, including this core, doesn't have a reliable point guard (see, e.g., the games Rubio missed last year). Someone needs to step up there, or we will suffer the same fate...

I had that impression that Shaq lost it too when he played here. Then I looked up some games and he actually had some really good games for us.

 

[1Sun]

I had that impression that Shaq lost it too when he played here. Then I looked up some games and he actually had some really good games for us.

On occasion, yes, but overall he was a net negative. I imagine that CP3 might have the occasional good game as well, but this trade is starting to look an awful lot like Marion for Shaq...

 

[Yuma]

On occasion, yes, but overall he was a net negative. I imagine that CP3 might have the occasional good game as well, but this trade is starting to look an awful lot like Marion for Shaq...

This guy has hardly played. I also see him doing more coaching on the sidelines during the preseason than I ever saw Rubio do all year. We need someone to be that alpha dog that pushes guys. Booker is too much of a quiet assassin. He leads by doing. We need someone that is more vocal. I am reserving judgement until the games start counting. I am more disappointed in our reserves right now.