I’m Not the Only One Who Thinks They’re Tanking

football karma

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Ertz will have a dead cap hold of $5 million in 2024 if he's released before June 1. Conner will have a dead cap hold of $3 million if released in 2024.

If the idea is to "take our medicine and get right with the cap" this year to maximize flexibility next year, what are these dudes doing on the roster?
this is another place where "the Plan" by the FO isnt clear

if the the plan was to focus on players who would be contributing during a 2024 playoff hunt: then they needed to bring back Zach Allen.

if the plan was as above -- take the medicine -- then Connor and Ertz should have been let go. Maybe they get traded at the deadline for late picks. As far as i can tell -- the only diff between them and Hop was that they wanted to be in AZ.
 

kerouac9

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If the Cards are willing to eat 20M for their best player and cut him anyway, why would 3 and 5 matter?
I don't really understand what you point is here. Is $8 million in additional cap space not valuable because they already have $20 million? Are you saying that they'll eat the dead cap anyway? What is your point?
 

oaken1

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I would argue that if you were tearing it down and rebuilding, there would not be a place for Ertz or Conner or Beachum on this roster. Also, you would have started re-building in free agency vs skipping free agency.

Our offseason is broken down to this.

1 - We let some of our best, young players sign elsewhere.

2 - Participated in the draft, prioritizing 2024 assets.

3 - Cut our best player.

None of this fits the "building" part of "rebuilding".
ever heard of addition by subtraction?
we cut Hop... nobody wanted to trade for him. Personally, I dont want players who feel entitled to extra days off just because they are star players. every player working hard together helps build the team mentality and there wasnt really any effective difference between our offense with Hop or our offense with hollywood. If Ertz and Conner dont want to practice we can cut them too...and I suspect if we come across a valid receiving TE anytime soon Ertz is gone anyway... but with the coach wanting to run 12 and 13...we need guys at TE
 

dreamcastrocks

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I don't really understand what you point is here. Is $8 million in additional cap space not valuable because they already have $20 million? Are you saying that they'll eat the dead cap anyway? What is your point?
I'm saying they aren't prepared to eat ALL of the cap space by releasing those players now, especially since the players in question appear to still be in good standing with the team, not like D-Hop. They will make the decision next year when they have over 50M in cap space to work with.
 

kerouac9

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I'm saying they aren't prepared to eat ALL of the cap space by releasing those players now, especially since the players in question appear to still be in good standing with the team, not like D-Hop. They will make the decision next year when they have over 50M in cap space to work with.
I thought you said that you don't expect any of them to be back on the roster next year. Now it's an open question?

Neither of them will be part of the next Arizona Cardinals team to make the playoffs. What's the point of keeping them? Isn't this season about getting right with the cap?

BTW: the Cards will have like the 13th-most cap space in 2024. This is turning into a really cool plan.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I thought you said that you don't expect any of them to be back on the roster next year. Now it's an open question?

Neither of them will be part of the next Arizona Cardinals team to make the playoffs. What's the point of keeping them? Isn't this season about getting right with the cap?

BTW: the Cards will have like the 13th-most cap space in 2024. This is turning into a really cool plan.
After next year, not this coming year.
 

kerouac9

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All 3 of these players aren't likely to be on the roster after this year. Beachum is a one year deal, Connor will likely be cut after this year. The same goes with Ertz, although could stay due to his Eagles connection.

After next year, not this coming year.

Please keep your story straight. Are we trying to maximize cap flexibility in 2024 or not?
 

dreamcastrocks

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Please keep your story straight. Are we trying to maximize cap flexibility in 2024 or not?
After this year means after this coming year. I can see how you can read it differently, but try to keep the snark down. Those two sentences are worded in different ways, both both using the terms 'after' and 'year'.

I'm saying maximizing cap flexibility isn't this team's only goal.
 

SECTION 11

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People aren't really considering the possibility that Houston could be good or even mediocre this year.

They play the AFC North and NFC South along with the AFC South.

Could they beat Tampa, Carolina, and Atlanta? Maybe!

Could they beat Pittsburgh and Cleveland? Potentially!

Could they go 3-3 against Indy, Jacksonville, and Tennessee? Could be!

If the Texans go 8-9 and Monti gets the 12th pick in the draft for trading out of #3 overall, are we gonna feel super-good?
I think Houston absolutely is going to be better than everyone thinks.
 

kerouac9

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After this year means after this coming year. I can see how you can read it differently, but try to keep the snark down. Those two sentences are worded in different ways, both both using the terms 'after' and 'year'.

I'm saying maximizing cap flexibility isn't this team's only goal.
So do you expect Ertz and Conner to be on the Arizona Cardinals roster for Week 1 2024, or no?

What is the goal of keeping Ertz and Conner on the roster if winning games is not the goal? How does keeping them on the roster support an objective greater than the $8 million in additional 2024 cap flexibility?
 
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They are about to rollout a 37-year-old Colt McCoy as their opening day starting QB. Who doesn't think they are tanking?
Did they announce the opening day starters & I missed it? Kinda early for that but if they did they did I guess. ;)
 

Dayman

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Did they announce the opening day starters & I missed it? Kinda early for that but if they did they did I guess. ;)
Colt is taking first team reps, and Hop referenced him as the starter on his way out.

But you are correct. Nothing is set in stone. It could be Clayton Tune, who would be the lowest drafted rookie to start week 1 in NFL history. Or it could be Jeff Driskel, a 30-year-old journeyman on his 5th team in 6 years who couldn't get signifficant time with the Texans last year. Or maybe even David Blough, who has a career rating of 67.

The excitement is palpable!
 

Dayman

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I would argue that if you were tearing it down and rebuilding, there would not be a place for Ertz or Conner or Beachum on this roster. Also, you would have started re-building in free agency vs skipping free agency.

Our offseason is broken down to this.

1 - We let some of our best, young players sign elsewhere.

2 - Participated in the draft, prioritizing 2024 assets.

3 - Cut our best player.

None of this fits the "building" part of "rebuilding".
Or Dennis freaking Gardeck, who currently has the 12th largest cap hit on the team and could be cut for a cap savings of $2.4 million.

Re-signing Prater for 2 yrs/$7 million also seems antithetical to this full teardown plan.
 

JosiahLee

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C'mon man, don't jinx us like that! :)

I think what K9 meant was Monti's already not doing a good enough job infusing this roster with young talent. If you solely build through the draft, it's going to take forever--like, 5 or more seasons--to rebuild the roster. Monti did nothing to infuse this team with young talent in FA. In fact, he made the roster worse in that respect.
Idk, remember when the Patriots went crazy like two seasons ago in FA? They signed a ton of “top” guys and it didn’t pan out for them.

I’m still in wait and see mode. I don’t know if I see the value in investing heavily in FA talent this year if it’s looking like at least a two year rebuild.

I’m willing to be patient with the new regime. I expect significant improvement in 2024 and an opportunity to contend in 2025. If they can’t delivered that then I’lol be open to changes. I think they deserve at least 3 seasons, including this one that we are obviously blowing up.
 

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Or Dennis freaking Gardeck, who currently has the 12th largest cap hit on the team and could be cut for a cap savings of $2.4 million.

Re-signing Prater for 2 yrs/$7 million also seems antithetical to this full teardown plan.
It all points to a new crew that has never done their job before and is trying to figure it out on the fly. Everyone starts a new job as an inexperienced rookie. They were dealt a bad hand, they have zero experience in their current position. What could go wrong? A lot. But give them some time and hopefully, we will be surprised. How many times have us Cardinals fans been through this?
 

dreamcastrocks

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So do you expect Ertz and Conner to be on the Arizona Cardinals roster for Week 1 2024, or no?

What is the goal of keeping Ertz and Conner on the roster if winning games is not the goal? How does keeping them on the roster support an objective greater than the $8 million in additional 2024 cap flexibility?
Connor, nope.
Ertz, 50/50.
 

Outerlimits

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Or Dennis freaking Gardeck, who currently has the 12th largest cap hit on the team and could be cut for a cap savings of $2.4 million.

Re-signing Prater for 2 yrs/$7 million also seems antithetical to this full teardown plan.

Prater may be the only one scoring points for us until Kyler returns. Lol.
 

Garthshort

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Jeff Kerr at CBS wrote, “If the Cardinals get that No. 1 pick, Murray likely had a bad year and Arizona would look to move on by resetting the franchise and draft Williams (while getting another franchise cornerstone in the process with the Houston pick).

Arizona probably doesn't want Murray to succeed at this rate. Releasing Hopkins doesn't give Murray the pass-catchers he needs to help the franchise win games. No Hopkins in the fold equals a less productive Murray. Not good for his prospects in 2023.”
Well if Jeff Kerr wrote it, it must be correct. When it comes to the Kerrs, I prefer Buddy, the OLD NY Giant short stop or Steve.
One man's tanking is another man's rebuild. JMO.
 

THESMEL

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Well I’ll defend them,
I'm not hating on anybody I'm pointing out the obvious, I think this horse has been beat dead enough, time to move on, I'm tired of the tanking talk.
we went undefeated for a good portion of last season, what changed? well attitude changed, I don’t think we’re as bad as all day, and I believe cards are more probable then not to be better then we have been since, what that looks like , I’m not sure, but hope we run the damn ball, and settle down the crap of the last 2 decades.
 

Fitz4Ever

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It seems like the best thing for everyone would be for Kyler to sit out the entire year. We roll out Tune for the year and get the #1 pick. Murray gets a full year to rehab his injury, and can't damage his value further by playing on this garbage team.

We trade Kyler during the draft for a late 1st rounder and move on.
 

kerouac9

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It seems like the best thing for everyone would be for Kyler to sit out the entire year. We roll out Tune for the year and get the #1 pick. Murray gets a full year to rehab his injury, and can't damage his value further by playing on this garbage team.

We trade Kyler during the draft for a late 1st rounder and move on.
Blech. This sounds awful.
 

JohnnyCakes

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What better young talent are we going with to replace Byron Murphy? Zach Allen? JJ Watt? Hopkins? Justin Pugh? I must have missed that part of the off-season.
lol.

Byron Murphy!! The great Byron Murphy!

Look-- i know it sucks now but youre going to find it all going to work out in the next 2-3 years. They need to stock pile young talent and not obsess over mediocre at best talent like Murphy and Allen

This is a full on tear down.
 

DVontel

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lol.

Byron Murphy!! The great Byron Murphy!

Look-- i know it sucks now but youre going to find it all going to work out in the next 2-3 years. They need to stock pile young talent and not obsess over mediocre at best talent like Murphy and Allen

This is a full on tear down.
lol


Murphy & Allen are mediocre now?

Quit with the organization defending.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I get you can't bring yourself to hate the franchise so you have to hate someone, but you do realize that the darksiders are happy that we're taking this year, right? We were never going to be good this year so tanking made sense. It's the idea that we're not doing much to get better for next year that upsets most of us.
Exactly. Essentially just opting out of free agency for a year is just insanity to me. I get the tear down, I get the accumulation of picks, but I don’t get passing on an entire class of players that may help in the subsequent seasons.
 

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