Having Peyton would improve our OL a lot

[DoTheDew]

There seems to be this misconception that most teams who give up a lot of sacks do so because their OL sucks. The reality is that it is the QB.

Take the Patriots as a case study.

In 2007, they allowed 21 sacks on 586 attempts for a sack rate of 3.5%.
In 2008, with Brady out for the season they allowed 48 sacks on 534 attempts for a sack rate of 9%.
In 2009, with Brady back they allowed 13 sacks on 601 attempts for an amazing 2% sack rate.

I find it highly unlikely that their OL sucked in 2008 but was great the years preceding and following.

As for the Colts, last year they allowed 35 sacks on 534 attempts for a 6.5% sack rate.
The year before, 16 sacks on 679 attempts (2.4%), which is similar to most of the years Peyton was there.

As for us, our sacks per season were about half as high when Warner was our starter for most of the season.

So while our OL may be in disarray, it would look at lot better with Peyton back there then Kolb or Skelton.

 

[SunsTzu]

Look no further than the Cardinals last year. Kolb was sacked 10.6% of the time while with basically the same line Skelton was sacked 7.7%. Not hard to imagine those numbers being far lower with someone of Manning's ability.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There seems to be this misconception that most teams who give up a lot of sacks do so because their OL sucks. The reality is that it is the QB.

Take the Patriots as a case study.

In 2007, they allowed 21 sacks on 586 attempts for a sack rate of 3.5%.
In 2008, with Brady out for the season they allowed 48 sacks on 534 attempts for a sack rate of 9%.
In 2009, with Brady back they allowed 13 sacks on 601 attempts for an amazing 2% sack rate.

I find it highly unlikely that their OL sucked in 2008 but was great the years preceding and following.

As for the Colts, last year they allowed 35 sacks on 534 attempts for a 6.5% sack rate.
The year before, 16 sacks on 679 attempts (2.4%), which is similar to most of the years Peyton was there.

As for us, our sacks per season were about half as high when Warner was our starter for most of the season.

So while our OL may be in disarray, it would look at lot better with Peyton back there then Kolb or Skelton.

I don't think that can really be said. IMO, sometimes it's the line, sometimes it's the QB and sometimes it's the scheme. In our case, last year, it was probably more QB than anything else.

Steve

 

[THESMEL]

We throw to much - makes me want to to throw up to much-
You all know that is my peeve -I think you look at the games with 7 rushing attempts and vomit up NFCW titles,

People blame it on the Oline and Levi, Deuce, Sendlein, Bridges. holy bat crap Robin!
you can't protect a QB and only run 7 times against the Vikings 10 times against the Saints in a playoff game? It is the play caller stupidity, you see the gme and season end stats never really tell the whole story,

We passed like 10 times to 1 run for long streaks, freaked me out every time we threw 3 and out with a 3 score lead, We had an 8 second drive with a 3 score lead !

Peyton Manning can't save that? Levi Brown deserves medal of valor!

 

[JeffGollin]

PWT (Point Well Taken).

Peyton's ability to make quicker, better reads and get rid of the ball faster could make a difference.

But I would feel better if we could protect him better.

 

[Red Dawn]

Peyton would also improve our OC. He will audible out of ignorant play calls.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I would still wonder how they are going to fix the ever present unblocked rushers on the outside. It needs to get fixed Manning or no Manning.

 

[splitsecond]

Peyton punishes teams for blitzing even moreso than KW did.

 

[PJ1]

That may be but our tackles were horrible. Need to improve for sure.

 

[DoTheDew]

I don't think that can really be said. IMO, sometimes it's the line, sometimes it's the QB and sometimes it's the scheme. In our case, last year, it was probably more QB than anything else.

Steve

I think on any team both the OL and the QB could do better, but the difference in the sack rate when you improve your QB is far more significant than the difference when you improve one of your Olinemen. Part of that is because there are 5 OL and only 1 QB, but a bigger part is that the QB just has so much control over everything that's going on.

In our case, Peyton would probably not see the 2.1% sack rate he had in his best years in Indy, but he'd likely get us down to around 4% which is far better then what we've had since Warner left. Improving our tackles this year and next year could get that number down in the 2% range.

 

[Goldfield]

There seems to be this misconception that most teams who give up a lot of sacks do so because their OL sucks. The reality is that it is the QB.

Take the Patriots as a case study.

In 2007, they allowed 21 sacks on 586 attempts for a sack rate of 3.5%.
In 2008, with Brady out for the season they allowed 48 sacks on 534 attempts for a sack rate of 9%.
In 2009, with Brady back they allowed 13 sacks on 601 attempts for an amazing 2% sack rate.

I find it highly unlikely that their OL sucked in 2008 but was great the years preceding and following.

As for the Colts, last year they allowed 35 sacks on 534 attempts for a 6.5% sack rate.
The year before, 16 sacks on 679 attempts (2.4%), which is similar to most of the years Peyton was there.

As for us, our sacks per season were about half as high when Warner was our starter for most of the season.

So while our OL may be in disarray, it would look at lot better with Peyton back there then Kolb or Skelton.

Correct. This is a team game, each position has an impact on the rest.

 

[Mitch]

Yes---Peyton would have the blocking schemes all figured out---and would plant his size 16 cleat in any OLs arse if he misses his assignment.

 

[Duckjake]

Peyton punishes teams for blitzing even moreso than KW did.

Yeah but what Mr.Yeahbut is talking about is not a blitz. Just that incomprehensible move by our Tackles where they block down in a double team with the Guard and leave the outside rusher unblocked. It's like our OTs don't even see the DE or OLB.

For a perfect illustration see the play where Doucet fell down vs Cincy.

 

[MrYeahBut]

Yeah but what Mr.Yeahbut is talking about is not a blitz. Just that incomprehensible move by our Tackles where they block down in a double team with the Guard and leave the outside rusher unblocked. It's like our OTs don't even see the DE or OLB.

For a perfect illustration see the play where Doucet fell down vs Cincy.

What I started thinking about towards the end of the year was maybe the tackles miss the audible and think it's a run and the pulling guard from the opposite side is supposed to pick up the DE... I dunno.

One of life's big mysteries I guess.

 

[Jasper]

It is really hard to sack someone if the ball is out in 3 secs, unless the o-line completely whiffs.
Remember how Kolb held the ball for 10 secs but ran around all over the place behind the line? How do you look downfield when you are running all over the place?
Skelton stood in the pocket and took the hit, he didn't run around.
Atleast Tebow ran upfield unlike Kolb running left and right.

 

[gamebird98]

Look no further than the Cardinals last year. Kolb was sacked 10.6% of the time while with basically the same line Skelton was sacked 7.7%. Not hard to imagine those numbers being far lower with someone of Manning's ability.

................Or higher with his non mobility.

 

[DoTheDew]

................Or higher with his non mobility.

Mobility isn't really the answer. Kolb ran around like a chicken with his head cut off half the time and still got sacked. Manning/Brady/Warner were never that "mobile" and have always been towards the bottom in sack counts. It's about anticipating the defense, having a quick release, and just plain getting rid of the damn ball.

 

[gamebird98]

Mobility isn't really the answer. Kolb ran around like a chicken with his head cut off half the time and still got sacked. Manning/Brady/Warner were never that "mobile" and have always been towards the bottom in sack counts. It's about anticipating the defense, having a quick release, and just plain getting rid of the damn ball.

Manning would already be on the ground.

 

[Darkside]

True, but Manning also knows what Warner knew: How to slide and step up in the pocket. Kolb ran backwards. Both Warner and Manning love burning blitzes too. Kolb just ran, and ran, and ran.

Yep, he's still

running.

 

[DoTheDew]

Manning would already be on the ground.

It takes time for a defender to get to the QB. Even if he is unblocked. It takes more time for that to happen then it takes for the ball to go from the QBs hand to the air. Any QB who is aware has the capability to get rid of the ball. Sometimes it's better to hang on then throwing a pick, but it's certainly not a mobility issue.

I've seen Colts games in the past where defenders came through unblocked and Manning still got rid of the ball in some of those cases.

 

[gamebird98]

Thats because he knows ahead of time they will be unblocked....we dont leav em unblocked on purpose.

 

[pinetopred]

Thats because he knows ahead of time they will be unblocked....we dont leav em unblocked on purpose.

And that is why he will make our line better, he will know what their job is also. Don't think we had that last year.

 

[SunsTzu]

................Or higher with his non mobility.

If you're implying that a healthy Manning would be sacked at a higher rate than Kolb and Skelton then we'll have to agree to disagree. Peyton's highest sack rate of his career is 5% and outside that 1 he's never had a sack rate of over 4%.

 

[gamebird98]

They dont know what their job is! thats why he wont last here...he is going to assume that a block will be made, and it wont be.

 

[pinetopred]

They dont know what their job is! thats why he wont last here...he is going to assume that a block will be made, and it wont be.

Thats where I don't agree how much of the unblocked guy running free was because we had a QB back there who didn't know the offense. No offseason different terminology. I don't think we have a great o-line by any means but I do think not having a QB doing his pre snap reads correctly also was a big factor.