Good draft for Suns

Bigdez22

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Of course not! Soon enough you'll realize that Kerr is an idiot who knows nothing about basketball. 90% of the people on here would make better GM's than Kerr. No need to spend hours upon hours scouting a player, working him out, interviewing him, etc. Just watch a few games here and there and that's more than enough to be an expert as a GM.

My favorite part is how everyone ******* and moans that the Suns don't make any moves in the draft. Not even in the second round - because Kerr is such a bad GM that he can't get anyone to trade with him. And when they DO pull off a trade for a young, skilled, PG with potential it's apparently not good enough. Stupid move. Horrible player. Can't shoot. Won't ever make it in the NBA. Give him some freaking time to develop before crushing him.

I mean, come on. It's getting pretty ridiculous. I know you shouldn't drink the kool-aid 24/7, but it seems like some of you would be ecstatic if Stern removed the Suns from the league. Hell, it's better than putting up with "$arver" and Kerr, right?

:thumbup: Its like i said in another post.

Haters are gonna hate. There is nothing you can do about it.
 

Chaplin

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Yeah, but I remember hearing about problems with his attitude during his freshman season also. IIRC, both he and his brother were really outplayed by the opposing bigs in their tourney game and there was a lot of concern about Robin looking like he was sleepwalking during the game. It was shortly afterwards that the rumors really started making the rounds. I don't know, maybe I'm giving too much credence to rumors.

Steve

I'd be curious to read any articles about this. Hard to even address a rumor without even a magazine article to back it up, as I'm sure you know. It's one thing to hear a rumor from Gambo and Ash, but it's yet another to have a rumor based on "you know, I thought I heard a rumor two years ago..."
 

nowagimp

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That faint hope might have existed, but no one in Suns mgmt DECLARED he would be that.
THey declared it when they way overpaid him, unless you give a bench warmer the equivalent of the MLE(~5/25). Actions speak louder than works. If they gave marks that kind of contract, I would have expeced him to "suprise some people".
 

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First of all Robin Lopez will be defending centers in the NBA. He's not going to be defending Dirk Nowitzki or Kevin Garnett very often, and next year he probably won't be defending Gasol as they'll have Bynum back. Besides, nobody is saying he's going to be able to stop the best of the best from the NBA right off the bat. That's ridiculous.

I took a couple minutes to look quickly at the scoring opportunities for Jeff Pendergraph against Stanford from this past year. This is what happened.

February 14 - Pendergraph scored one time against Robin Lopez. It was a fadeaway baseline jumper from about 15 feet. Robin Lopez was the defender on three of his six misses.

January 19 - Pendergraph scored once against Robin Lopez. He made a nice baseline move on the left block for an and one. I forgot to look at his misses in this game before I shut down the window, but he was 3-10 for seven points.

So he scored twice against Robin Lopez in two games.



This is where we definitely disagree. #15 is the perfect place to get a backup seven footer. If he's even an occasional starter and decent defender it's a very good pick. I would be ecstatic if the Phoenix Suns got Varejao with the #15, and we are talking about a guy in Lopez who is 4 inches taller than Varejao.

Last thing, at scouting report from draft express you quoted said he was a good, but not great athlete. I take that to mean he is at least above average athletically, and again he's got great size. I just don't know what you are expecting here.

Joe

Joe, you're always the voice of reason. I like this pick and can't understand why people don't. I suppose some people are just gonna hate regardless. We needed a defensive minded big and a PG. We got both. I think the Suns brass have far better knowledge of him than alot of the sledgers in here.

Good draft :thumbup:
 

nowagimp

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:thumbup: Its like i said in another post.

Haters are gonna hate. There is nothing you can do about it.

No, you can write a scathing rebuttal and get all bent out of shape worse than the original silly poster. That makes two psychos going off over the draft choices.
 

Mainstreet

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This is where we definitely disagree. #15 is the perfect place to get a backup seven footer. If he's even an occasional starter and decent defender it's a very good pick. I would be ecstatic if the Phoenix Suns got Varejao with the #15, and we are talking about a guy in Lopez who is 4 inches taller than Varejao.

Last thing, at scouting report from draft express you quoted said he was a good, but not great athlete. I take that to mean he is at least above average athletically, and again he's got great size. I just don't know what you are expecting here.

Joe

I would be very pleased to get a taller version of Varejao. I think fans in a few years will look back on this draft (as it always happens) and see that some stars turned out to be duds and some duds turn out to be quality NBA players. Let's hope the Suns, picking as late as they did, get some quality.
 

JS22

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No, you can write a scathing rebuttal and get all bent out of shape worse than the original silly poster. That makes two psychos going off over the draft choices.

Scathing?

I'm just making my point. Most everyone here acts like they absolutely hate the Suns. It just gets annoying when people bitch for the sake of bitching. We can all have a different opinion, but it gets old reading about how terrible Kerr is and how cheap Sarver is in every single thread.
 
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Scathing?

I'm just making my point. Most everyone here acts like they absolutely hate the Suns. It just gets annoying when people bitch for the sake of bitching. We can all have a different opinion, but it gets old reading about how terrible Kerr is and how cheap Sarver is in every single thread.


Especially when there is evidence to the contrary.


Kerr is still kinda new with his job so I'll just stay neutral on him for now. He hasnt left his mark yet to be called out so harshly.

Calling Sarver cheap is inexcusable and slanderous. For every reason haters down on Sarver I could give two reasons as to why he is NOT cheap. The Suns have been top 10 in payroll under his tenure and he's inked more in contracts than any other team in the NBA over the past few years.
 

BuddyFranklin

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Another point to bring up is that we always wanted another crazy fiery sort of guy in the mould of Eddie House and Q Rich. Lopez will bring that infectious spirit in spades. It’s the little things that these sorts of players bring that can lift a side. I don’t care if his game is offensively challenged right now, he’ll get better. He’s 20yrs old and Mike D ain’t coaching us anymore. Dennis Rodman couldn’t shoot so he went after every damn rebound. This guy said he’d dive into a canyon for a loose ball.
I love that attitude and I love that he wanted to be in phoenix, badly.
 

Chaplin

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I was non-committal about Lopez to start--I didn't hate the pick like some people here did (which still is a little mind-boggling), but I was cautious about it. After reading and seeing a bunch of stuff about him, including his post-draft interviews and the press conference yesterday, I've come around to be a Robin fan, so hopefully this works out. As far as I can tell, it was a slam dunk choice at #15.
 

JS22

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Another point to bring up is that we always wanted another crazy fiery sort of guy in the mould of Eddie House and Q Rich. Lopez will bring that infectious spirit in spades. It’s the little things that these sorts of players bring that can lift a side. I don’t care if his game is offensively challenged right now, he’ll get better. He’s 20yrs old and Mike D ain’t coaching us anymore. Dennis Rodman couldn’t shoot so he went after every damn rebound. This guy said he’d dive into a canyon for a loose ball.
I love that attitude and I love that he wanted to be in phoenix, badly.

I would love to see Q in a Suns uni again - even with his injury / crappy play issues. He brought an attitude and swagger to the Suns that they've been lacking.
 

HooverDam

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This is where we definitely disagree. #15 is the perfect place to get a backup seven footer. If he's even an occasional starter and decent defender it's a very good pick. I would be ecstatic if the Phoenix Suns got Varejao with the #15, and we are talking about a guy in Lopez who is 4 inches taller than Varejao.

Last thing, at scouting report from draft express you quoted said he was a good, but not great athlete. I take that to mean he is at least above average athletically, and again he's got great size. I just don't know what you are expecting here.

Joe

Varajao was taken at around 30 I believe. I think thats the area to take guys of this ilk. 20 or later take 'safe' guys with low ceilings, that would be my philosophy.

Personally, I think the Suns window is slammed shut. I also think that they currently have very little future. They have Amare at the 4 and LB at the 2 and thats about it. Its frustrating to know that they could've had Rondo at the 1 and all the other guys they could've had as well, but that ship has sailed. I think the Suns need to start laying a plan and building up quality young talent for when Nash, Bell, O'Neal and Hill all retire within a short span of each other. If you feel comfortable with Robin Lopez as your starting center of the future, fine, then it was a good pick. I personally would've preferred them to take someone who at least has a chance to be a starter on a WCF caliber team.

First of all Robin Lopez will be defending centers in the NBA. He's not going to be defending Dirk Nowitzki or Kevin Garnett very often, and next year he probably won't be defending Gasol as they'll have Bynum back.

Really? He won't be defending those guys? Then why in the world did the Suns pick him? Are you implying that Amare "no defense whatsover" Stoudemire will be covering the opposing star 4? A lot of teams with star PF's have their center cover the other teams star PF. Duncan usually doesn't cover Amare for instance, thats left to guys like Oberto. Dirk doesn't cover Amare and Amare doesn't cover Dirk.

Ideally you have a guy like Kurt Thomas or Brian Skinner to cover the other teams star big man. Thats absolutely what Robin Lopez was brought in here for. But if its in the Suns plans to draft a guy at 15 so he can lock down Eric Dampier, Fabricio Oberto and Kendrick Perkins then they're even more out of their minds than I thought.
 
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I was non-committal about Lopez to start--I didn't hate the pick like some people here did (which still is a little mind-boggling), but I was cautious about it. After reading and seeing a bunch of stuff about him, including his post-draft interviews and the press conference yesterday, I've come around to be a Robin fan, so hopefully this works out. As far as I can tell, it was a slam dunk choice at #15.

Right on! Lopez wanted to be here which is a plus and he fills a need.


Besides, there is always time to hate on him later! :lol:
 

Chaplin

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Varajao was taken at around 30 I believe. I think thats the area to take guys of this ilk. 20 or later take 'safe' guys with low ceilings, that would be my philosophy.

This is the stuff that gets me. For one, Lopez would never have been available at #30. I think he would have been gone by 17 if we didn't pick him. Everyone keeps bringing up draft history. Carlos Boozer was a 2nd rounder, how about that? What about Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Nikoloz Tkitischvilli? It's really easy to point at draft successes, but don't forget early round failures as well. Robin Lopez has a very, very good chance to be a draft success at #15.
Personally, I think the Suns window is slammed shut. I also think that they currently have very little future. They have Amare at the 4 and LB at the 2 and thats about it. Its frustrating to know that they could've had Rondo at the 1 and all the other guys they could've had as well, but that ship has sailed. I think the Suns need to start laying a plan and building up quality young talent for when Nash, Bell, O'Neal and Hill all retire within a short span of each other. If you feel comfortable with Robin Lopez as your starting center of the future, fine, then it was a good pick. I personally would've preferred them to take someone who at least has a chance to be a starter on a WCF caliber team.

So let me get this straight, you hate the Suns front office for wanting to remain competitive and in the same breath turn around and start saying that Robin is the starting center of the future? Are you kidding me? NOBODY, not even the Suns front office, has touted that. This is a trait of all you negatives on this board--to make baseless claims in order to back up your negativity.
 

HooverDam

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This is the stuff that gets me. For one, Lopez would never have been available at #30. I think he would have been gone by 17 if we didn't pick him. Everyone keeps bringing up draft history. Carlos Boozer was a 2nd rounder, how about that? What about Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Nikoloz Tkitischvilli? It's really easy to point at draft successes, but don't forget early round failures as well. Robin Lopez has a very, very good chance to be a draft success at #15.

I'm not ignoring draft history, good heavens. Sometimes good players slip, Arthur and CDR both arguably slipped further than expected this year, that stuff happens. Part of the reason it happens is because teams like the Suns reach with their pick. Maybe Robin would've been gone by 17, but its a silly argument to have, since we'll never know.

So let me get this straight, you hate the Suns front office for wanting to remain competitive and in the same breath turn around and start saying that Robin is the starting center of the future? Are you kidding me? NOBODY, not even the Suns front office, has touted that. This is a trait of all you negatives on this board--to make baseless claims in order to back up your negativity.

Im saying Robin SHOULDN'T be the starting Center of the future, what are you reading? I'm saying at 15, you ought to take a chance at getting a future starter, I think the Suns played this one overly safe. Why in the world that is such a crazy position to take according to you, I have no clue.

Furthermore, if you go back and look at most my posts, I've not always been negative. Quite the opposite, I used to be one of the most optimistic people on this board. But with Kerr at the helm, I can't be anymore. The guy is completely unqualified for his job and is in over his head. Two years in a row we've heard he's tried to move up in Rd 1, and he's failed. He traded 2 draft picks and Kurt Thomas for nothing. He made a silly trade for Shaq. He had to give up quite a bit just to move up 3 slots in the 2nd round.

Furthermore, I don't like his philosophy in general. Steve Kerr seems to be all about beating a team that can beat the Spurs. Why? The Spurs are old and their dynasty is on its last legs. Great we get guys like Shaq and Robin Lopez to guard Duncan. And we get a PG who might be here or might not, but is supposed to give Parker fits. All the while, we don't improve our wing defense, and aren't really matching up with the rising powers like Boston and LA.

Look, Im a Suns fan. I hope Robin turns out to be a scrappy defender and has a long successful career in the NBA. I hope Dragic comes over this year, can start working on his shot, and ends up being a great PG. I hope Shaq finds the well of youth, and is the Grand Marshall of the Championship Parade down Jefferson Street. However, if I was a betting man, I wouldn't put my money on it.
 

nowagimp

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Another point to bring up is that we always wanted another crazy fiery sort of guy in the mould of Eddie House and Q Rich. Lopez will bring that infectious spirit in spades. It’s the little things that these sorts of players bring that can lift a side. I don’t care if his game is offensively challenged right now, he’ll get better. He’s 20yrs old and Mike D ain’t coaching us anymore. Dennis Rodman couldn’t shoot so he went after every damn rebound. This guy said he’d dive into a canyon for a loose ball.
I love that attitude and I love that he wanted to be in phoenix, badly.

If you think lopez gets a shot because mike D aint coaching the suns anymore, well youre lost. Lopez will rise on his determineation and skill first and coaching second. A 7 footer who cant hit a shot in college outside 5' when everyone else was guarding his more talented 7' brother, has a long way to go. I just jope he has the stones to make himself better.
 

nowagimp

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Ideally you have a guy like Kurt Thomas or Brian Skinner to cover the other teams star big man. Thats absolutely what Robin Lopez was brought in here for. But if its in the Suns plans to draft a guy at 15 so he can lock down Eric Dampier, Fabricio Oberto and Kendrick Perkins then they're even more out of their minds than I thought.


This is a very good point, and you are the only one here to make it, myself included. You have a legitimate argument concerning #15, the lowest pick the suns will have for 4-5 years. I hope you are wrong and lopez turns out to be a gem!
 

nowagimp

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I would love to see Q in a Suns uni again - even with his injury / crappy play issues. He brought an attitude and swagger to the Suns that they've been lacking.

Q never played much defense, thats why they got rid of him, plus his overpaid contract. Youre one of those "defense" guys arent you? Well Im realtively neutral between defense and offense, and I can see that Q was a real defensive liability on the wing, just not quick enough to play on ball defense there.
 

Joe Mama

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Especially when there is evidence to the contrary.


Kerr is still kinda new with his job so I'll just stay neutral on him for now. He hasnt left his mark yet to be called out so harshly.

Calling Sarver cheap is inexcusable and slanderous. For every reason haters down on Sarver I could give two reasons as to why he is NOT cheap. The Suns have been top 10 in payroll under his tenure and he's inked more in contracts than any other team in the NBA over the past few years.

I think you would probably make your case a lot stronger if you left out words like "haters" and "inexcusable and slanderous". Here's the problem with Robert Sarver. He's made a lot of really bad basketball moves that were completely based on money. I know it's a business. But owning a professional sports team these days should not be like running a normal company at least not when it comes to the basketball decisions. I have no problem with trading draft picks for future pics because you don't like anybody who's left on the board. Trading the pics for cash alone does not help the basketball team, no matter how you spin it.

Believe me, I understand the other side of this. In the past I've defended some of these cost-cutting/saving moves. The Kurt Thomas deal was the final straw. I could have accepted it (still would not have been happy about the draft picks) if they were sure they were going to get PJ Brown. Obviously that wasn't the case.

Varajao was taken at around 30 I believe. I think thats the area to take guys of this ilk. 20 or later take 'safe' guys with low ceilings, that would be my philosophy.

Personally, I think the Suns window is slammed shut. I also think that they currently have very little future. They have Amare at the 4 and LB at the 2 and thats about it. Its frustrating to know that they could've had Rondo at the 1 and all the other guys they could've had as well, but that ship has sailed. I think the Suns need to start laying a plan and building up quality young talent for when Nash, Bell, O'Neal and Hill all retire within a short span of each other. If you feel comfortable with Robin Lopez as your starting center of the future, fine, then it was a good pick. I personally would've preferred them to take someone who at least has a chance to be a starter on a WCF caliber team.

Varajao would never have lasted to #30 if he was an American player. The only reason he lasted that long is because there were questions about what it would take to get him to the NBA. That's why he was the first pick of the second round. Furthermore, that was a draft with a good group of high schoolers.

If you believe the Phoenix Suns window is slammed shut I can understand why you are upset. They do make it a little hard to defend them when they let it out that they had Lopez rated higher than Brandon Rush. I know there is a premium on seven footers, but I think Rush is going to be a very good player in the NBA, and he's relatively low risk.

I don't believe the window is closed for the Phoenix Suns. I think it's closing. Their best chances were two years ago when Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw couldn't stay on the bench and last season when they blew it by trading Kurt Thomas. They've got some work yet to do this off-season, but I do believe the window is still partially open.

Really? He won't be defending those guys? Then why in the world did the Suns pick him? Are you implying that Amare "no defense whatsover" Stoudemire will be covering the opposing star 4? A lot of teams with star PF's have their center cover the other teams star PF. Duncan usually doesn't cover Amare for instance, thats left to guys like Oberto. Dirk doesn't cover Amare and Amare doesn't cover Dirk.

Ideally you have a guy like Kurt Thomas or Brian Skinner to cover the other teams star big man. Thats absolutely what Robin Lopez was brought in here for. But if its in the Suns plans to draft a guy at 15 so he can lock down Eric Dampier, Fabricio Oberto and Kendrick Perkins then they're even more out of their minds than I thought.

You are right in that Lopez will be asked to defend the opposing team's power forward often. What you said was that Lopez wouldn't be able to guard guys like Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, or Gasol because he was beaten with ease by Pendergraph. Well, unless you are talking about games other than the two ASU-Stanford matchup's last season that only happened two times, and one of those was a 15 foot fadeaway baseline jumper.

The other problem I have with your argument is that the kid is 20 years old and going to be a rookie. I expect him to get beaten by the best power forwards in the game. I do think he'll be better against these guys than Amare Stoudemire. I also think he will defend the pick and roll better than either Amare or Shaq. I expect him to be a good team defender and an active rebounder. I think if he becomes a 7 foot Varejao I'll be very happy with the pick, and I think there's a lot better chance of that than Greene becoming the next Rashard Lewis.

I'm really not trying to say that I love this pick. I'm not even sure I really like it. I think it was a safe pick. I'm only arguing that it wasn't a waste or a disaster like some of you seem to think. I think the window is still open for a championship, so I'm not upset with passing on high-risk/high reward players. There are definitely some other guys who would have excited me more than Lopez, and like I said earlier I would have been upset if they passed on Brandon Rush to take Lopez.

Joe
 

Joe Mama

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This is a very good point, and you are the only one here to make it, myself included. You have a legitimate argument concerning #15, the lowest pick the suns will have for 4-5 years. I hope you are wrong and lopez turns out to be a gem!

I'm always leery when I hear how good a guy was in workouts, but in one of those videos Steve Kerr was talking about Lopez's shot. He said that was one of the things that impressed them was that he was much better than they expected at hitting that 10-15 foot shot in his workout.

Joe
 

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I'm always leery when I hear how good a guy was in workouts, but in one of those videos Steve Kerr was talking about Lopez's shot. He said that was one of the things that impressed them was that he was much better than they expected at hitting that 10-15 foot shot in his workout.

Joe
I hope Lopez only takes about 10-15 of those next year. :)
 

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Personally, I like Lopez. I think he's smart, he has hustle, and he's gotten better as he's gotten older. He's nobody's #1 or #2 pick but he was fine at #15. Whatever guy you wanted at #15? Well, most of the people here would have slammed him, too.

Because there are a lot of unhappy people on this board. They're ready to say the season is over before it's begun; ready to fire our new coach before he starts; ready to p&m because Lopez isn't Shaq at 20 and ready to start.

Well, Shaq ain't Shaq at 20, either, and the time is racing closer to when he's gone. Let Lopez be ready then and we've made a great pick.
 

AzStevenCal

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I was non-committal about Lopez to start--I didn't hate the pick like some people here did (which still is a little mind-boggling), but I was cautious about it. After reading and seeing a bunch of stuff about him, including his post-draft interviews and the press conference yesterday, I've come around to be a Robin fan, so hopefully this works out. As far as I can tell, it was a slam dunk choice at #15.

I was very concerned about the pick but I've never understood how people can read an internet blurb or two, watch a college game or two, listen to a sports talk show or two and then be adamant about their opinion versus the people that do this for a living. I haven't changed my opinion on Lopez but if I had to bet I'd place my money on the research the Suns staff has done and not on my own limited familiarity.

I usually get misunderstood when I try to make the above point. I'm not advocating that we should defer on all subjects to the experts at hand; I just don't understand how people can dismiss them so easily when there is usually such a wide gap in experience, knowledge and access.

Steve
 

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Im not quoting out of context to suit my needs. I'm quoting the freakin' side bar of his draft profile and going off what I've seen. With my eyes. In person. While watching collegiate basketball.

He's not a stiff, wow, just the description I want of a near lottery pick.

The hater-ade you spew makes us other Devil fans embarassed. Don't let the Lopez pick ruin your day or love for the Suns.

You've compared him while going against Pendergraph. Try using comparisons of what he did late in the season and NCAA's. Throw in the fact that this kid was only a sophomore. He's only going to get better.

Are you just going to boo him every time he steps on the floor?

Get this through your head: The Suns had ZERO dirt workers last year, the year before, and the year before that. The Suns don't need another scorer. They need someone to set picks, scrap for loose balls, and get out of the damn way so Amare and Nash can go to work.

The kid wanted to be a Sun, and nothing else. That should give you an idea of where this kid's heads at. On top of that, I'll take size over a tweener every day of the week.
 

sly fly

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I was very concerned about the pick but I've never understood how people can read an internet blurb or two, watch a college game or two, listen to a sports talk show or two and then be adamant about their opinion versus the people that do this for a living. I haven't changed my opinion on Lopez but if I had to bet I'd place my money on the research the Suns staff has done and not on my own limited familiarity.

I usually get misunderstood when I try to make the above point. I'm not advocating that we should defer on all subjects to the experts at hand; I just don't understand how people can dismiss them so easily when there is usually such a wide gap in experience, knowledge and access.

Steve

I'll second that. Great points.
 
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