Gonna be a long long season

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by KYCardFan, Aug 16, 2019.

  1. Cardsfaninlouky

    Cardsfaninlouky Registered

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    It will have elements of it imo yes. Will be a hybrid
    It will be some of that offense yes, hybrid between NFL (Tom Clements recommendations) & the air raid. Pretty sure KK has added some things to it that it he didn't use at TT. Just guesses but more than likely kind of accurate.
     
  2. Cbus cardsfan

    Cbus cardsfan Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion

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    I think the opposite. I think they'll get off to a fast start offensively but then DC's will adjust and they'll slow them down. The same thing happened with Chip Kelly', and Steve Spurrier's offenses. One the DC's got film on them, they struggled.
     
  3. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    That’s not exactly the opposite of what he said. If it works in the first 4 weeks than that means it can be successful at this level. The question that has to be answered after teams start making adjustments is whether or not K1 and K2 will be able to make the necessary counters to beat the adjustment.
     
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  4. Stout

    Stout I gave my cards a victory...

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    IN COLLEGE. We'll see if it even translates to the NFL, let alone if it causes so much grief all the way up to the GM level.
     
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  5. JeffGollin

    JeffGollin Registered User

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    That 14-penalty mention is at least in part misleading.

    2 were due to the hand-clap thingy, and there were at least a couple of phantom contact calls (including the one on KS Johnson) - all of which served to derail any semblance of Cardinal momentum.

    Not to say we shouldn't clean up the penalties; but it would be equally wrong to misintepret what actually happened.

    Note - Nice piece by Kent Somers that hit the Gannett national wires. He points out that the League plans "to leave it up to each officiating crew " when or when not to flag a hand infraction. That's crazy. Regardless of the infraction in question, its call should be consistent from crew to crew and based on a single set of standards and not vary from official to official.
     
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  6. kerouac9

    kerouac9 #Stiff4Kliff

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    FWIW, I think Spurrier struggled with poor personnel. Kelly still had elite offenses in Philly, but those defenses were dreadful.

    That 2016 San Fran offense was pretty hopeless.
     
  7. AZCB34

    AZCB34 Registered User

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    Everyone acts like this is some revolutionary offense when Air Raid concepts have been in the league for some time. Every notable coach is using Air Raid concepts already.

    The college guys have just added a few extras that may it's may not work at the next level. At least the Cards HC is used to losing so he probably won't get too down as this season progresses.
     
  8. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    It’s not just about the concepts, but the way in which the entire offense is run through the entire game. It is supposed to be very uptempo. Not to the extent of Chip’s offense where they wanted to start the next play as soon as possible, but much faster than a typical NFL offense. The Cards will be running a whole lot of no huddle and lining up for the next play immediately which will make subs very hard to get for the defense.
     
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  9. DVontel

    DVontel Registered

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    Not to mention, Kelly gave away some of his good players once he was given roster control.
     
  10. Crimson Warrior

    Crimson Warrior Dangerous Murray Zealot

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    You're correct sir.

    K2 can only create a scheme that, at best, gives his offense situational advantages, most of which (we'll give Kliff the benefit of the doubt that he'll bring in a new wrinkle or two), DCs have seen before.

    However... However... :) Can you guess what I'm about to say?

    Kingsbury has something that no other OC has had in the past. Kyler Murray might prove to be the perfect engine which allows K2's scheme to be truly dangerous.

    It's scheme + personnel. Martz had a great idea, but he needed Warner + Faulk + Holt/Bruce to make it something truly special.

    Disclaimer - I'm not saying that this season we'll have an offense that rivals the 1999 Rams. I hope that by the 2021 season we do however.
     
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  11. JeffGollin

    JeffGollin Registered User

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    What Martz and, for that matter, Arians had was a "damn the torpedos" attitude roward play calling. (Martz could be 4th & 20 on his own 1-yd line and would just as often as not dial up a fake punt).

    Scheme and personnel are the tools, but it's guts, creativity and courage that will ultimately get the job done. Does K2 have what it takes?
     
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  12. Harry

    Harry ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer

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    Where to start,
    They didn’t blitz Oklahoma. Murray may know the offense but most of the receivers and backs don’t. I think wide blitzes will be reduced but stunting and inside blitzes are far more complex in the NFL. Also NFL rushers have a bigger size/speed profile. Consider the Cards’ weak O-line and I guarantee you the blitzes will come.

    Murray will call plays to defeat or simply outrun blitzes. Sometimes I’m sure that will happen. However if they’re not running the offense in preseason does he know what to call? He certainly was confused by that double A gap blitz and I saw no evidence anyone ran a hot route. You can’t outrun every blitz. Hopefully Murray will burn some. If not it will be a long year. My guess is we’ll see Murray roll out often. He is good throwing on the run.

    Murray is a transcendent talent. I hope so.

    GMs don’t want this offense. That’s true but because at the amount they’re paying QBs they’re scared of injury. Finding a successful backup is rare. Assume this offense works. Do you still want to RPO with Murray?

    They can beat it passing to backs. Certainly a popular blitz beater but was that a screen they tried with DJ? I’m not sure this line is agile enough to support screens. Swing passes, quick slants, etc. can help but let’s see them execute. If you play Edmonds, unless he’s just a receiver, they’ll blitz. They blew him up again last night. He can’t protect Murray.

    It’s only preseason. True, but one of the best reasons for it is to get rookies ready for the season. That’s why I want Murray getting more reps. I’d prefer using some of the new offense, but I’d settle for Murray just getting used to the NFL. I see KK says Murray will play at least the entire first half. I’m sad they’ve wasted 2 games.

    Finally, I expect to see 4-5 receiver sets often. I just think the Cards will need experience in how to handle the defenses with them. Vince Lombardi used to say the key was execution. You can only execute with experience. When the route allows a receiver to go in or out, can Murray predict what the receiver will do? Does Murray know when a receiver is covered too well to throw him? OKLA had tons of open receivers. Can Murray adjust to receiver’ speed? Keep in mind NFL defenders have much better closing speed.

    I like the possibilities with Murray. I’m less confident in the coaching strategy. KK May have the right offense. However, I think things like how to develop Murray is an entirely different issue.
     
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  13. bojack

    bojack Registered

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    And it only works if your offense is able to sustain drives on much of the possessions. Otherwise your D is gassed out and the other team blows you out of the water as your D gets more gassed as they have very long sustained drives and your D is relying on media timeouts to stay upright because your O is handing the ball back every 2 mins. When your O is not being very productive it is a harsh enough cycle. When it happens with tempo it is demoralizing. I could see a place for tempo when you have the D on their heels to prevent subbing and keep the confusion up but I don't see it as a primary tactic. I feel like tempo backfires more than it creates opportunity with a penalty or someone who didn't get their assignment right.

    In college tempo can allow teams to exploit opponents, but usually it if your O is moving the ball easily (usually against less talented opponents) or your D can shutdown the opposing O (again, usually due to a talent gap, but having a larger roster doesn't hurt).

    In CFB there is such a lack of parity either on one side of the ball or both that it's hard to say one system is superior to another as a general rule of thumb. A talented team will run roughshod over lesser teams and then when they meet their equal or a better team then they struggle. This is why I don't like looking to B12 schools that often have great offensive stats in conference but don't have great records as proof of some offensive revelation those teams have that no one else is smart enough to implement.

    Put it this way, if KK was coaching the Pats would I expect them to have some massive gain in offense... No. I think the talent and culture and mentality of a team are more important than the idiosyncrasies of one philosophy to the next. I think the best coaches know how to adjust in game and adjust their schemes to the strengths of their players.
     
  14. football karma

    football karma formerly known as En Fuego

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    my prediction:

    we see wildly inconsistent offensive production week to week. i think some weeks K1 is going to be pretty good to great and the points to show for it -- and others will be like the first quarter vs OAK.

    I think its going to take both KK and K1 a season to truly figure out how this is all going to work.

    my hope was the D was going to be good enough to keep them in games until the O finds its footing. Losing two projected starters with the result being both starting CBs will be on the bench for the first 6 weeks of the season is a tough one.
     
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  15. b8rtm8nn

    b8rtm8nn Registered

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    Took about half a season for the offense to start clicking in Arian's first year here , and it felt like another week or two longer for the defense.

    I am not expecting to know what this looks like until mid season. And I have no faith in VJ as DC, I will put money he lasts two seasons and then is gone, Keim too hopefully, or we will get another retread as DC.
     
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