Get ready to trade down… more than once.

MadCardDisease

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Pace is a wash. He was worth nothing for us. So for me it's really Suggs vs those players, and no, I absolutely would not have traded Suggs for Pace plus any of those players. Prime pass rusher beats good RBs and great TEs.

The fact of the matter is that Graves got fleeced in that trade and then drafted like an idiot. So no I wouldn't have taken that trade and I wouldn't have selected those players where the Cardinals did. That doesn't mean that a different front office will make the same mistakes.
 

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From what I have seen, it looks like most agree that this is not going to be fixed in one year especially if it is done the way a lot of people would like to see in the trenches. Nor should MO try to fix it all in one year. Of course getting a new version of JJ is not going to fix the defense all by itself, but it is a hell of a piece to build around. So, take that key piece and if you can trade down in later rounds maybe you can pick up some additional decent players and find a diamond in the rough. That is what MO is going to need to do and most good GMs do. It seems like we go into each year thinking other teams in our division are screwed because they traded away top draft picks. Then the games come and it is the 6th round CB for Seattle locking down our WR, or the 5th round DE for the Niners getting 2 sacks, etc. On top of the early round misses we don't seem to get many of those later round hits either. Hopefully MO is now the guy to do that, starting this year. So you get what you hope is the star at the top and add a few pieces, maybe a few extra with a later trade down. And then you add some more next year. It's not as if we draft Anderson this year, he is gone next year. We missed our window to capitalize on a cheap QB deal but you can do it with the player on D. If you have the right person for the job that can find players, you can trade back any year and fill in the holes around the star, but you aren't necessarily in the position to get the top guy every year. As some have said, if you don't think Anderson or Carter are that guy then that is a different story but I don't know that I have seen that said specifically by those passionate about trading back.
 

cheesebeef

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He was drafted 10th. That's where I got that from. Besides, you know THE POINT that I am trying to make.

I thought you were going to lay off the snark...
literally all I did was post facts. It’s a fact that you were wrong about that trade and it’s a fact that it’s near impossible to have honest debates about a subject when people inject fale news/facts in what’s being discussed.
 
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dreamcastrocks

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Uh… literally all I did was post facts. It’s a fact that you were wrong about that trade and it’s a fact that it’s near impossible to have honest debates about a subject when people inject fale news/facts in what’s being discussed.
You posted one fact, and then your opinion on my incorrect fact with snark. '
We were talking about trading down and the merits of doing so. But you keep on being you.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You aren't guaranteed to get a homerun at #10 overall, like you are at 3. Trading a number 10 overall for 17 and 18 is pretty good value.
We were drafting 6th and Suggs was coming off a season where he had 24 sacks, 31.5 tackles for loss (best in nation), and 6 forced fumbles (also best in the nation). And homegrown boy. He was the epitome of a homerun.
 

MadCardDisease

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We were drafting 6th and Suggs was coming off a season where he had 24 sacks, 31.5 tackles for loss (best in nation), and 6 forced fumbles (also best in the nation). And homegrown boy. He was the epitome of a homerun.
Suggs kept running slower than everyone expected. He was far from a homerun:

 

Krangodnzr

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Suggs kept running slower than everyone expected. He was far from a homerun:

40 times don't matter too much for someone who runs 10 yards.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Since you are using hindsight, the question should allow you to select anyone in the first round 17 and later. If we traded Suggs for Pace and one of McGahee/Larry Johnson/Dallas Clark, I'd do it.
You still would have lost that trade. Top tier passrusher is worth more than average edge with limited career rb or top tier TE.
 

kerouac9

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I disagree completely that the “underbelily” needs overhaul…as in rebuild. This is a team that just two seasons ago was considered one of the top five teams until Kyler got hurt and then the wheels came completely off.

Theres ample talent on the team….we need a staff that can maximize the players talent and the game plans.

Yes, they need to figure out if Murray is salvageable…and yes there are positions we need to shore up…but I don’t feel like this is a “blow it up and start over” situation.

How many of the guys from the 2021 team do you really anticipate are going to be on the 2023 roster? Many of the top contributors are already gone. You can expect, like, Zaven Collins to take the next step, but who knows?

Hope is not a plan.
Again, it is about the arrogance of the decision. He has never been the head of the table. He doesn't know this scouting team. He has a lot on his plate between now and April. All he is doing by trading back is making his job more difficult because he is increasing risk.

I dunno, man. It seems like trading down is diversifying risk, depending on what you believe the draft pool is. I'm not an expert on this; I just like to criticize picks after they happen. That said, you're better off with two 50% chances of a guy becoming a Pro Bowler than one 70% chance, which is around what I'd expect between a #3 pick and two picks between 10 and 20 (or whatever). If you get a Pro Bowler and a three-season starter, that's arguably a better haul than Myles Garrett.

Maybe.

Trading down for the Cardinals is the smart thing 9/10 times this year. Unless "the guy" they draft at #3 overall can play on both DL and OL and survive 100 snaps per game, then it might be worth it. The Cardinals need to fill a ton of holes and they need draft picks to do it. They currently only have 5 picks in the 2023 draft:

  • Round 1, Pick 3
  • Round 2, Pick 35
  • Round 3, Pick 67
  • Round 4, Pick 105
  • Round 6, Pick 179
And here is their current roster for 2023:


QBs: Kyler Murray (on IR), Colt McCoy
RBs: James Conner, Keyontay Ingram
WRs: DHop(probably traded), Hollywood, Rondale, Anderson(probably cut), Baccellia
TEs: Ertz, McBride
OTs: Hump, Josh Jones,
OGs: Lecitus Smith, Marquis Hayes
C: Rodney Hudson (Probably Retiring)

DT: Leki Fotu, Lawrence, Manny Jones
DE: Golden, Cam Thomas,
Edge: Dennis Gardek, Myjai Sanders, Victor Dimukeje, Jesse Luketa
ILB: Simmons, Collins
S: Baker, Thompson
CB: Marco Wilson, Christian Matthew

P:
K:
LS:

The team isn't going to look like this when the draft rolls around. If MO leaves us in the "Judge Us By the Team That Takes the Field in September" lurch that Graves and Keim did, it's going to be bad.

Bryant freaking Johnston I forgot about that bum.

My dad got me a Bryant Johnson jersey that Christmas because they were sold out of Boldin jerseys. It was the plain red #83.

He changed his number the next year. Sad!
 

Stout

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Except we DIDNT trade the 10th pick. We traded the 6TH PICK AND a high 2nd round pick for 17, 18 in what was deemed a shallow first round and a late second round pick.

Tough to have a real discussion here when one person has such little command of the facts in the first place.
We also gave up a 4th rounder to sweeten the deal.
 

Krangodnzr

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Except we DIDNT trade the 10th pick. We traded the 6TH PICK AND a high 2nd round pick for 17, 18 in what was deemed a shallow first round and a late second round pick.

Tough to have a real discussion here when one person has such little command of the facts in the first place.
Don't for get the courtesy reach around when the Cardinals ALSO tossed the Saints a 4th rounder as well.

It ended up being a horrible trade for the Saints as well since Sullivan ended up really sucking. I remember at the time, we heard that Graves probably would have drafted Sullivan as well at #6.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Suggs kept running slower than everyone expected. He was far from a homerun:

The only people who didn’t think he was a homerun were people who placed too much priority on running in underwear. Let me repeat: 24 sacks. Most of us clamoring for him knew he was a homerun. That’s called forethought. And we were right (7 time pro bowler with 139 sacks in his career). If you didn’t recognize the homerun, that’s on you.
 

Krangodnzr

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The only people who didn’t think he was a homerun were people who placed too much priority on running in underwear. Let me repeat: 24 sacks. Most of us clamoring for him knew he was a homerun. That’s called forethought. And we were right (7 time pro bowler with 139 sacks in his career). If you didn’t recognize the homerun, that’s on you.
That trade was my single lowest moment as a Cardinals fan. I was so fricking upset, you can ask @Redrage how mad we were.

Like I said elsewhere, imagine a world where the Cardinals took Suggs, Boldin, Gerald Hayes, and Reggie Wells in the same draft. Two HOFers, a solid thumper in the middle (back when MLB/ILBs were all thumpers), and a long time solid starting LG.
 

dreamcastrocks

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You still would have lost that trade. Top tier passrusher is worth more than average edge with limited career rb or top tier TE.
I was looking at 10 instead of 6. There are other options, but you may be right.
 

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The Suggs trade is certainly a contender for worst Cards’ trade ever. If I were ever going to trade down, this would be the pool. I liked it when it looked like Carter and Anderson would be gone when the Cards picked. Now the Cards get one of them. I’m not quite as high on Anderson as others, but he’s a solid pick. I see Carter as great to phenomenal. I can’t pass him for any offer. He means 5 years of a dominating D Line.
 

FB94

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2023 is a year to strip down and rebuild this team in preparation for making significant strides in 2024, with the mindset of putting Murray through boot camp in 2023. Tear him down and build him back up by end of the year.
 

dreamcastrocks

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The Suggs trade is certainly a contender for worst Cards’ trade ever. If I were ever going to trade down, this would be the pool. I liked it when it looked like Carter and Anderson would be gone when the Cards picked. Now the Cards get one of them. I’m not quite as high on Anderson as others, but he’s a solid pick. I see Carter as great to phenomenal. I can’t pass him for any offer. He means 5 years of a dominating D Line.
This is exactly how I see it too.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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Trading back would be a lot easier if you knew for sure who would be available to you in R2. Not knowing that leaves you guessing somewhat as to if you are going to go CB, DE, IOL or IOL, CB, DT or in general who you will be left with each round. That creates a bit more anxiety as the draft progresses.

When you compare that to simply taking Anderson or Carter at #3, you really don´t worry about it. You are happy with your first pick, then simply go with however the draft falls to you. I guess what I am saying is you remove any fear of screwing it up. You got the best player and are happy you did.
 

Harry

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Trading back would be a lot easier if you knew for sure who would be available to you in R2. Not knowing that leaves you guessing somewhat as to if you are going to go CB, DE, IOL or IOL, CB, DT or in general who you will be left with each round. That creates a bit more anxiety as the draft progresses.

When you compare that to simply taking Anderson or Carter at #3, you really don´t worry about it. You are happy with your first pick, then simply go with however the draft falls to you. I guess what I am saying is you remove any fear of screwing it up. You got the best player and are happy you did.
I wouldn’t trade down but if they do I won’t be anxious. The top 10 guys in round 2 might well be middle round one picks in some recent years.
 

SissyBoyFloyd

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I wouldn’t trade down but if they do I won’t be anxious. The top 10 guys in round 2 might well be middle round one picks in some recent years.
Yes, this is a great draft that not even ´you know who´ could screw up. Or could he?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That trade was my single lowest moment as a Cardinals fan. I was so fricking upset, you can ask @Redrage how mad we were.

Like I said elsewhere, imagine a world where the Cardinals took Suggs, Boldin, Gerald Hayes, and Reggie Wells in the same draft. Two HOFers, a solid thumper in the middle (back when MLB/ILBs were all thumpers), and a long time solid starting LG.
Cheese and I couldn’t believe it.
 

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