Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by Dr. Jones, Sep 22, 2010.
The presenting of the Book "A Song of Ice and Fire" was another nod to LOTR, IMHO
the idea that the moment Dany enacted a city-wide holocaust for no reason wasn't enough to turn Jon was beyond stupid.
And, it is clear to me the title refers to Jon and Dany
Agreed. But Jon still didn't have a real connection to them. But when she mentioned Winterfell, that was the proverbial straw.
still lame and was another example this season of story moving character as opposed to character moving story. Jon's got a good enough heart to know what she did was beyond the pale. That's been his whole cross to bear the entire series... that he does what's right instead of what's smart. The idea that Winterfell needed to be mentioned to be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back just seemed stupid.
I guess if I bought into their love story... at all... then I could see him being blinded by that and really struggling with what to do next and they TRIED to go that route with the lines about duty killing love/love killing duty... but I thought their romance and especially chemistry didn't deliver enough on screen for me to buy that either.
Without rewatching, I thought she mentioned Winterfell in her Dothraki tongue when she was addressing the troops. Would he have understood that?
I thought she said it in the throne room just to Jon
Winterfell is still “Winterfell” even in Dothraki.
Rewatched. She says it in her speech, telling them they will liberate the world “from Winterfell to Dorne...” in Dothraki. Yes, the names of the places sound the same in Dothraki, but no other context was offered. She could have just been naming places she now ruled.
And the camera cuts to Jon as if he understood her entire meaning.
How hard was it to understand what kind of speech it was? It was a warmongering speech, and Jon knew it, regardless what language it was in.
Yep. They did that whole damn "I have to convince you" scene with Tyrion--boring AF, by the way, because WHY DOES HE NEED CONVINCING??? Jon just watched his "queen" brutally murder an entire city, man, woman, and child. He's no longer Jon Snow if he doesn't consider the line irrevocably crossed at that point.
I figured she could have been saying, "Thank you for making me Queen. People from Winterfell to Dorne (etc., etc.)...are free because of you!" Kind of a victory speech. But if all you can understand from her is the names of places, how do you know if she is taking a victory lap or naming her next targets? Jon seemed to immediately know, but it doesn't appear to inform his later conversation with Tyrion in the slightest.
Pretty sure because she went all insane and incinerated women and children without remorse. There was no way that speech was anything but warmongering.
Jon already knew the danger, even before Tyrion pushed him over the edge and gave him his resolve.
They live in a different time and place than do we. Lots of killing is the norm. And he’s seen lots of it. Maybe he’s just numb to it?
I keed, I keed. Dany must have some strong game in the sack.
Look, we all know Jon has a very strong sense of loyalty. He showed it to the Night's Watch, and he showed it to Ned Stark (and the Stark family). He was fiercely loyal to Dany, even without the romantic entanglements. For the past 2 seasons, he was convinced at her good intentions, absolutely convinced. Even after he found out who he was. I venture to say he was in absolute shock in episode 5 that she would do this. Remember, Jon doesn't have the 7 other seasons of knowledge about her that we do. Varys did, which makes some sense that he was so ready to betray her.
My speculation is that he WANTED Tyrion to convince him because he was so conflicted before he went into Tyrion's cell. He needed the push, and he KNEW he needed the push.
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