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SoonerLou

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I've said before, the Lions is the model we're hoping to copy.

First season under a new GM/HC in 2021 led to a three win season - hell they didn't win until week 13. Followed that up with a winning season and narrowly missed out on the play-offs. Step one, cut out the deadwood, let expensive FAs leave and replaced with servicable but cheaper guys, build an identity, and position themselves well for future drafts

Whether we manage to do the same is yet to be seen.
 

BritCard

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I've said before, the Lions is the model we're hoping to copy.

First season under a new GM/HC in 2021 led to a three win season - hell they didn't win until week 13. Followed that up with a winning season and narrowly missed out on the play-offs. Step one, cut out the deadwood, let expensive FAs leave and replaced with servicable but cheaper guys, build an identity, and position themselves well for future drafts

Whether we manage to do the same is yet to be seen.

Was just about to say something similar.

When Brad Holmes took over in 2021 they moved on from Stafford. Their offseason FA signings were,

Tyrell Williams - 1 year
Jamaal Williams - 2 years
Tim Boyle - 1 year
Breshad Perriman - 1 year
Randy Bullock - 1 year
Charles Harris - 2 years
Kalif Raymond - 1 year
Alex Anzalone - 1 year
Damion Ratley - 1 year
Corn Elder - 1 year
Quinton Dunbar - 1 year
Dean Marlowe - 1 year
Darren Fells - 1 year

Hardly a fantastic bunch of talent.

It's impossible to restructure how the team does it's business and change the culture and be good at the same time. And the Lions didn't have a QB with an ACL tear to contend with.

The saddest part about this offseason ranting is that it's some of the smartest people here showing the least amount of patience. The same people who for years have been saying it needs tearing down are now complaining we're tearing it down.

Having built a foundation through the draft with players like Sewell, Williams, Joseph, Pascal, Rodriguez, McNiell and St Brown they are now in a position to splash in free agency which is what you have seen this offseason.

For me it's refreshing that Monti and Gannon especially are in this for the long haul. It's very easy for a new HC to feel pressured to win, for their own personal pride as much as anything. These guys are where they are because of their competitiveness. But you also have to be realistic and it's better to sacrifice wins this year for more in the future.

People here have been saying "You can change the culture if you lose" which is obvious nonsense. Look at the Lions. They were 4-19 up to week 7 of this year under Campbell but the culture change has been obvious for some time.

I still expect a bunch of FA moves to come but it's going to be like the deals above. A bunch of 1-2 year mid tier guys.
 

Stout

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Was just about to say something similar.

When Brad Holmes took over in 2021 they moved on from Stafford. Their offseason FA signings were,

Tyrell Williams - 1 year
Jamaal Williams - 2 years
Tim Boyle - 1 year
Breshad Perriman - 1 year
Randy Bullock - 1 year
Charles Harris - 2 years
Kalif Raymond - 1 year
Alex Anzalone - 1 year
Damion Ratley - 1 year
Corn Elder - 1 year
Quinton Dunbar - 1 year
Dean Marlowe - 1 year
Darren Fells - 1 year

Hardly a fantastic bunch of talent.

It's impossible to restructure how the team does it's business and change the culture and be good at the same time. And the Lions didn't have a QB with an ACL tear to contend with.

The saddest part about this offseason ranting is that it's some of the smartest people here showing the least amount of patience. The same people who for years have been saying it needs tearing down are now complaining we're tearing it down.

Having built a foundation through the draft with players like Sewell, Williams, Joseph, Pascal, Rodriguez, McNiell and St Brown they are now in a position to splash in free agency which is what you have seen this offseason.

For me it's refreshing that Monti and Gannon especially are in this for the long haul. It's very easy for a new HC to feel pressured to win, for their own personal pride as much as anything. These guys are where they are because of their competitiveness. But you also have to be realistic and it's better to sacrifice wins this year for more in the future.

People here have been saying "You can change the culture if you lose" which is obvious nonsense. Look at the Lions. They were 4-19 up to week 7 of this year under Campbell but the culture change has been obvious for some time.

I still expect a bunch of FA moves to come but it's going to be like the deals above. A bunch of 1-2 year mid tier guys.
You are grossly mischaracterizing the angst on this board right now with the bolded. Nobody is upset that we're trying to re-set the team. People disagree with you and others that we aren't doing enough to tear it down. Also, people disagree that jettisoning our young talent is the opposite of tearing it down, instead insisting that it is contraindicated. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us inpatient. Poor attempt to shine yourself in a positive light and those who disagree with you in a negative light.
 

Krangodnzr

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You are grossly mischaracterizing the angst on this board right now with the bolded. Nobody is upset that we're trying to re-set the team. People disagree with you and others that we aren't doing enough to tear it down. Also, people disagree that jettisoning our young talent is the opposite of tearing it down, instead insisting that it is contraindicated. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us inpatient. Poor attempt to shine yourself in a positive light and those who disagree with you in a negative light.
I think Monti and Co have a different view of Allen and Murphy. Neither are slam dunk players. Both have injury histories and periods of uneven play.

It actually takes some balls to let talent walk without replacements on hand. I wouldn't have done it, but I can see a line of reasoning.
 

Stout

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I've said before, the Lions is the model we're hoping to copy.

First season under a new GM/HC in 2021 led to a three win season - hell they didn't win until week 13. Followed that up with a winning season and narrowly missed out on the play-offs. Step one, cut out the deadwood, let expensive FAs leave and replaced with servicable but cheaper guys, build an identity, and position themselves well for future drafts

Whether we manage to do the same is yet to be seen.
That means no dumb trade downs and staying put to take the pass rusher. Cool :)
 

BritCard

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You are grossly mischaracterizing the angst on this board right now with the bolded. Nobody is upset that we're trying to re-set the team. People disagree with you and others that we aren't doing enough to tear it down. Also, people disagree that jettisoning our young talent is the opposite of tearing it down, instead insisting that it is contraindicated. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us inpatient. Poor attempt to shine yourself in a positive light and those who disagree with you in a negative light.

I wasn't referring to that in the slightest. Not that I was particularly referring to you but what make them impatient is the impatience. You have at least been saying for some time you thought next year was a write off.

People are openly questioning the new GM and on one thread complaining about the lack of movement in FA and how poor we will be next year and in another thread complain that we aren't tearing it down in the right way. It's complaining just for the sake of complaining. Often completely contradicting themselves by arguing one thing in one thread and the opposite in another.

The whole cutting Conner and Ertz thing is dumb. Accelerating the dead money into this year doesn't matter if your intention is to roll cap over into next year. If you accelerate Ertz $4m dead cap from 2024 into 2023 you're just taking away $4m this year you could have carried over so it's a wash.

You would be cutting 2 leaders from the team to save $3.3m and have to pay to far less quality no marks the same money to fill the roster spots.

The only sensible course of action that actually saves money is trading them. That's unlikely with Conner and impossible now with Ertz injury. Maybe they intend to trade Ertz later after he's been through camp and shown he's healthy.
 

Stout

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I wasn't referring to that in the slightest. Not that I was particularly referring to you but what make them impatient is the impatience. You have at least been saying for some time you thought next year was a write off.

People are openly questioning the new GM and on one thread complaining about the lack of movement in FA and how poor we will be next year and in another thread complain that we aren't tearing it down in the right way. It's complaining just for the sake of complaining. Often completely contradicting themselves by arguing one thing in one thread and the opposite in another.

The whole cutting Conner and Ertz thing is dumb. Accelerating the dead money into this year doesn't matter if your intention is to roll cap over into next year. If you accelerate Ertz $4m dead cap from 2024 into 2023 you're just taking away $4m this year you could have carried over so it's a wash.

You would be cutting 2 leaders from the team to save $3.3m and have to pay to far less quality no marks the same money to fill the roster spots.

The only sensible course of action that actually saves money is trading them. That's unlikely with Conner and impossible now with Ertz injury. Maybe they intend to trade Ertz later after he's been through camp and shown he's healthy.
Let me sum up: You're saying you're right, those disagreeing with you are wrong, and anyone disagreeing is simply "complaining just for the sake of complaining?" You seriously can't even see the viewpoint of the people disagreeing with you? What you're saying is this team is doing everything exactly perfectly and as they should. That's straight-up company lining it, @BritCard. Oh, and calling specific arguments dumb. C'mon, man, you should be better than that. There's a hell of a lot I can (very rightly) call dumb, but I'm not.
 

BritCard

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Let me sum up: You're saying you're right, those disagreeing with you are wrong, and anyone disagreeing is simply "complaining just for the sake of complaining?" You seriously can't even see the viewpoint of the people disagreeing with you? What you're saying is this team is doing everything exactly perfectly and as they should. That's straight-up company lining it, @BritCard. Oh, and calling specific arguments dumb. C'mon, man, you should be better than that. There's a hell of a lot I can (very rightly) call dumb, but I'm not.

I definitely cannot see the viewpoint of people who argued to tear it down that now complain that we're tearing it down. There is no viewpoint. It's just shifting reasons to moan.

I definitely cannot see the viewpoints of people that argue for one thing in one thread and the opposite in another. Or asked for something to happen two months ago that complain now it's been done.

The argument for Ertz and Conner is dumb. Not the people, the argument. There is a whole thread of angry posts where people were on the verge of getting banned to save $3.3m this year and nothing down the road. It would be a net loss. We'd pay that to replace them with far less talent.

People have been writing long posts attacking the new FO on the basis that they should be taking the dead hit this year to save next year when the cap rollover makes it a wash either way.
 

Stout

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I definitely cannot see the viewpoint of people who argued to tear it down that now complain that we're tearing it down. There is no viewpoint. It's just shifting reasons to moan.

I definitely cannot see the viewpoints of people that argue for one thing in one thread and the opposite in another. Or asked for something to happen two months ago that complain now it's been done.

The argument for Ertz and Conner is dumb. Not the people, the argument. There is a whole thread of angry posts where people were on the verge of getting banned to save $3.3m this year and nothing down the road. It would be a net loss. We'd pay that to replace them with far less talent.

People have been writing long posts attacking the new FO on the basis that they should be taking the dead hit this year to save next year when the cap rollover makes it a wash either way.
The logical gymnastics here are staggering. At the start, you're attempting to assert the team is doing something when the argument is they aren't really doing it, or doing it right. If the team were perceived to be tearing it down right, there wouldn't actually be an argument.

You go on to simply accuse opposing posters of being changeable in their arguments when that is an assertion without evidence.

You don't like the argument about Ertz and Conner so it's a dumb argument. How about your argument about Conner and Ertz is dumb? See, it has just as little an impact as you saying it.

Bottom line? You think the team is tearing it down the right way. Most opposing posters think the team is half-assing the tear down and doing it poorly. A very few are being hypocritical about it as you say.
 

overseascardfan

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My frustration isn't because we aren't signing high priced free agents, it's because ARZ is not signing anyone other than the kid from PHI and its not because they don't have cap space available.

My other reason is because there are the rumors ARZ is going to fill all their holes in the draft by accumulating more picks. That would be okay with me as long as it does not cost us Will Anderson Jr. He is the best player in this draft, a cornerstone building block. If ARZ chooses Wilson and a couple of picks over Anderson that will be the ultimate draft blunder.

If you can't trade down in rounds 2 - 4 then there in nothing wrong with using the picks you have on guys who will contribute immediately. That is why ARZ should not be bypassing free agency and relying solely on he draft. You can pick up a few more reasonably priced youngsters and develop them along with your draft picks.
 

Chopper0080

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I've said before, the Lions is the model we're hoping to copy.

First season under a new GM/HC in 2021 led to a three win season - hell they didn't win until week 13. Followed that up with a winning season and narrowly missed out on the play-offs. Step one, cut out the deadwood, let expensive FAs leave and replaced with servicable but cheaper guys, build an identity, and position themselves well for future drafts

Whether we manage to do the same is yet to be seen.
Really?

Lions traded for Jared Goff 27.

Signed
Michael Brockers 31
Charles Harris 26
Alex Anzalone 27
Jamaal Williams 26
4 WRs

Re-signed
Romeo Okwara

Extended
Frank Ragnow - made him the highest paid C

Seems very different to me.
 
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Chopper0080

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My frustration isn't because we aren't signing high priced free agents, it's because ARZ is not signing anyone other than the kid from PHI and its not because they don't have cap space available.

My other reason is because there are the rumors ARZ is going to fill all their holes in the draft by accumulating more picks. That would be okay with me as long as it does not cost us Will Anderson Jr. He is the best player in this draft, a cornerstone building block. If ARZ chooses Wilson and a couple of picks over Anderson that will be the ultimate draft blunder.

If you can't trade down in rounds 2 - 4 then there in nothing wrong with using the picks you have on guys who will contribute immediately. That is why ARZ should not be bypassing free agency and relying solely on he draft. You can pick up a few more reasonably priced youngsters and develop them along with your draft picks.
I don't know...some peeps on here think building the roster is letting a 26 year old starting CB go so you can draft a 22 year rookie CB in the first round, hoping he is at least as good as the CB you just let go of.
 

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