Fred Carter ESPN Chat

[Chaplin]

A couple tidbits...

Dave (Montreal): Hey mad dog!! Please answer a question about my suns! Who do you think the suns should add next year to become a contender in the future? With the 1,2,3, and 4 positions covered i think they should try to get a big man like ratliff to beef up the inside. thanks

Fred Carter: If the Suns could land a Ratliff they could challenge the top teams in the West. Stoudamire is a good power forward and they need a tough inside presence.

Right on with that choice!

and...

Sean (Orlando): What happened to Penny? He used to be the best player in the league? Do you ever see him getting that dominance back into his game?

Fred Carter: I don't see that happening. There was a time when I questioned his passion.

He played well in Orlando for a while, but some of the coaches in the league don't think a lot of him. Injuries have hurt his career and I don't think he has a true passion for the game every day.

 

[dyle_ph1]

So...still trying to not only play, but win after several knee surgeries is not passion for the game?

 

[Joe Mama]

It looks to me like Penny Hardaway gives a good, solid effort every time he's out there now.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

I'd rather have Juwan Howard than Theo Ratliff. The Suns could afford Howard (who will probably get the median exception) only if Gugliotta declines his option, but I think he'd be a great fit.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
I'd rather have Juwan Howard than Theo Ratliff. The Suns could afford Howard (who will probably get the median exception) only if Gugliotta declines his option, but I think he'd be a great fit.

It's very very unlikely that Suns will sign Juwan Howard.

Would Gugliotta give up 4.5 mil.?No way.
If Suns could convince Gugliotta to not take his player option and sign a new 12mil./2 year deal instead of a 11.5 mil./1 year (your idea) then I'm pretty sure that Suns wouldn't use their mid-level but they would be very happy because of not paying the luxury tax.

I like Howard's matured and finesse post-up play and his toughness but I think that a good, athletic, defensive specialist big-man (ala Ratliff or Camby) who doesn't demand the ball in offense would be a better fit for Suns.
If this big-man could consistently hit the mid-range J ala Tony Battie it would be a nice extra.

 

[elindholm]

And you think Ratliff or Camby would be cheaper than Howard?

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
And you think Ratliff or Camby would be cheaper than Howard?

We could acquire them only via trade so yes they would be cheaper.

 

[Chaplin]

Please, God. No...

 

[elindholm]

Chaplin's right. We've been over this enough. We just have much different ideas of what is realistic. Obviously we'd like to trade garbage for stars and not have to pay out any salary.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
Chaplin's right. We've been over this enough. We just have much different ideas of what is realistic.

Yes, we do if you seriously think that signing of Howard is more realistic than trading for Camby or Ratliff.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Yes, we do if you seriously think that signing of Howard is more realistic than trading for Camby or Ratliff.

The point is that this whole line of arguement is pure speculation--unfortunately, you're turning it into a one-on-one battle that, frankly, after a big win tonight, is worthless. It won't accomplish anything.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
The point is that this whole line of arguement is pure speculation--unfortunately, you're turning it into a one-on-one battle that, frankly, after a big win tonight, is worthless. It won't accomplish anything.

Did I start this "pure speculation"?


elindholm had an idea,I replied to it, then you and he called his idea much more realistic so am I turning it into a one-on-one battle?
Come on...
Don't you have persecution complex?

BTW,this win tonight was really great.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by hcsilla

elindholm had an idea,I replied to it, then you and he called his idea much more realistic so am I turning it into a one-on-one battle?
Come on...
Don't you have persecution complex?

Nobody said you started it! You were the one that brought up that innane thread where you attacked people personally regarding Camby and Googs. If you think you were goaded into it, why did you let it get to you?

Persecution complex? Um, I'm trying to prevent a personal battle--whether between me and you or whoever else isn't the point.

then you and he called his idea much more realistic

Um, that is THE false accusation of the night. I never said Howard was more realistic. In fact, I don't think we could afford him. But I would certainly prefer Howard--and realistically, I think the C's would be much more interested in Howard than Camby. If you don't think that, then there's nothing I can really say to that.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Chaplin

Um, that is THE false accusation of the night. I never said Howard was more realistic. In fact, I don't think we could afford him. But I would certainly prefer Howard--and realistically, I think the C's would be much more interested in Howard than Camby. If you don't think that, then there's nothing I can really say to that.

Exactly!

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Nobody said you started it! You were the one that brought up that innane thread where you attacked people personally regarding Camby and Googs.

I didn't attack anybody,I just responded to the "attacks".

But I would certainly prefer Howard--and realistically, I think the C's would be much more interested in Howard than Camby.

This is the same as if you would say that C's would be much more interested in Tim Duncan than Camby.

Of course Howard is worth more right now than Camby because Howard is healthy and Camby is not.

But Howard doesn't fit to Suns, he probably wouldn't sign to the Suns and Colangelos wouldn't pay 9 mil./year for him.

So yes, Colangelo's would be more interested in Howard than Camby IF both would be FA's, IF Stoudemire would be a C and IF Suns could use their mid-level without paying the luxury tax.

 

[Chaplin]

No. That is incorrect. We are talking about who the C's would consider first--a (hopefully) cheaper Juwan Howard as a FA, or Marcus Camby as a trade. In reality, the C's would look at Howard first. I know you're in love with Marcus Camby for some strange reason, but them's the facts, jack. It's actually quite simple.

This has nothing to do with Tim Duncan... You really shouldn't put words into people's mouths.

And since you have officially dragged me into this innane line of arguement, I will once again bow out. Sayonara.

 

[SweetD]

Here we go again.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Chaplin
No. That is incorrect. We are talking about who the C's would consider first--a (hopefully) cheaper Juwan Howard as a FA, or Marcus Camby as a trade.

The key words are "FA" and "trade".
These are the two reasons why Howard simply CAN'T be cheaper than Camby.

In reality, the C's would look at Howard first.

I don't know if this would happen in reality.But in reality C's would immediately refuse this idea IF they would have look at it at all.

This has nothing to do with Tim Duncan... You really shouldn't put words into people's mouths.

I didn't put anything to anyone's mouth.

I just said that you can easily replace Juwan Howard with Tim Duncan in the sentence "the C's would be much more interested in Howard than Camby. " because acquiring of Howard has approximately the same probability as Duncan's.
Zero.

 

[jbeecham]

Howard is not a max worthy player and I seriously doubt any team will give him a max contract when he is a free agent. There is a chance that a team with a lot of cap room could offer him more than the mid-level exemption, but does Juwan want to go to a bad team or does he want a chance to win and be in the playoffs? If he gets a max deal with a bad team then we know he's just in it for the money and I wouldn't want a player like that anyways.

Substituting Duncan for Howard makes no sense because Duncan is more than max worthy. I think there is a possible chance that Howard would take less money to play with a better team. Maybe that's not extremely realistic, but it is possible. Duncan on the other hand would never sign for the mid-level because he is actually worth the maximum allowable.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by jbeecham
Howard is not a max worthy player and I seriously doubt any team will give him a max contract when he is a free agent. There is a chance that a team with a lot of cap room could offer him more than the mid-level exemption, but does Juwan want to go to a bad team or does he want a chance to win and be in the playoffs? If he gets a max deal with a bad team then we know he's just in it for the money and I wouldn't want a player like that anyways.

Of course Howard is not a max. player, my point is if Suns would give him the mid-level then he would cost 9 mil. for them because of the luxury tax.

 

[cheng]

Originally posted by SweetD
Here we go again.

Somebody just can't agree to disagree...

 

[SweetD]

I say lets trade for Camby. OOPS nevermind.

What a great win last night.

It was nice to see Big Jake back for a few seconds. He will be a big part of the game this weekend.

 

[elindholm]

acquiring of Howard has approximately the same probability as Duncan's. Zero.

I'm sorry, hcsilla, but this is just incorrect. Your analysis is based on the assumption that there is "no way" Gugliotta would decline his option and walk away. I agree that it is unlikely, but it is not impossible. Every once in a while you hear about an athlete that turns down a big contract just because he has enough money, has had enough of the game, and feels a sense of loyalty to his organization.

Maybe Gugliotta would like to spend more time with his wife. (Do they have children?) Maybe the Suns will offer him a front-office position, which has nothing to do with the luxury tax. Maybe, like Kemp, Gugliotta will gamble that he can resurrect his career with a fresh start somewhere else. (Would you have predicted Kemp to walk away from Portland? No, I didn't think so.)

None of these things is particularly likely, but they are not impossible. And if Gugliotta leaves, the Suns might indeed spend their median exception on a FA, and I think Howard could be a good choice.

The only way to get Camby is to trade garbage for him. My opinion is that that is even less likely than Gugliotta declining his option. You've worked out a fantasy scenario for Denver in which several things fall perfectly into place and Gugliotta saves them a few dollars. That's great, but not everyone thinks it's as likely as you do.

And frankly, I don't understand why you can't accept that.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
acquiring of Howard has approximately the same probability as Duncan's. Zero.

I'm sorry, hcsilla, but this is just incorrect. Your analysis is based on the assumption that there is "no way" Gugliotta would decline his option and walk away.

No,I didn't base only on this.

Why would Howard want to be Stoudemire's backup in a maybe contender team for the mid-level?
It just doesn't make any sense for me.

If he is ready to accept the mid-level and he wants to move to a contender team then LAL,SAS or even ORL are much more reasonable options for him.

I agree that it is unlikely, but it is not impossible. Every once in a while you hear about an athlete that turns down a big contract just because he has enough money, has had enough of the game, and feels a sense of loyalty to his organization.

Maybe Gugliotta would like to spend more time with his wife. (Do they have children?) Maybe the Suns will offer him a front-office position, which has nothing to do with the luxury tax. Maybe, like Kemp, Gugliotta will gamble that he can resurrect his career with a fresh start somewhere else. (Would you have predicted Kemp to walk away from Portland? No, I didn't think so.)

Kemp didn't walk away from POR but POR bought-out him and they still paid him 20 (maybe 30) mil.

None of these things is particularly likely, but they are not impossible. And if Gugliotta leaves, the Suns might indeed spend their median exception on a FA, and I think Howard could be a good choice.

Even if Gugliotta would be bought-out for the half of his salary (IMO very very unlikely) Suns would be still over the luxury tax limit so every FA signing would cost two times more for Suns.

The only way to get Camby is to trade garbage for him. My opinion is that that is even less likely than Gugliotta declining his option.

This is your opinion an I disagree with that.

You've worked out a fantasy scenario for Denver in which several things fall perfectly into place and Gugliotta saves them a few dollars. That's great, but not everyone thinks it's as likely as you do.

I never said that my trade proposal is likely.

And frankly, I don't understand why you can't accept that.

I accept everything if someone makes a point what I overlooked or where I was wrong.
But almost everyone disliked the proposal without understanding any of its points.

I posted a trade idea because I was curious what other posters think about it.
Nobody liked this proposal.
No problem for me especially that nobody made any legit point (except you with the trade kicker) to prove the proposal that highly unrealistic as everyone described.

 

[SirStefan32]

Why would Howard be Amare's back up?
Why can't they both start? Most teams play without a real center anyways. Juwan makes those jump shots that Jakes can't, may I add.