Forget a 3-WR set....

Divide Et Impera

Registered User
Joined
Apr 7, 2003
Posts
14,395
Reaction score
2
Location
Maricopa, AZ
It's all about the 4-WR set!!!!!!

Boldin-Fitzgerald-Jones-Johnson

With Hodgins in the backfield to block for McCown, defenses wouldn't know what to do!!!!

Open it up, baby!!!!!
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,504
Reaction score
27,791
Location
Gilbert, AZ
If Shipp can't be effective out of a one-back set, we're going to have to use a bunch of 5 WR sets, since we'll have to give up running the ball, anyway.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,811
Reaction score
32,999
Location
Orange County, CA
kerouac9 said:
If Shipp can't be effective out of a one-back set, we're going to have to use a bunch of 5 WR sets, since we'll have to give up running the ball, anyway.

:rolleyes:

Could it be that the often noted poor offensive game planning and game calling of Jerry Sullivan also had an impact on Marcel Shipp's season?
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,504
Reaction score
27,791
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Krangthebrain said:
:rolleyes:

Could it be that the often noted poor offensive game planning and game calling of Jerry Sullivan also had an impact on Marcel Shipp's season?

Not really. Marcel had good games, but gets worn down. It's not like many other players (Adrian Wilson, the entire O-line, the entire D-line, etc.) who had miserable seasons as a whole. Marcel has shown that (1) he can't stay healthy, (2) he fumbles way too often, especially in the red zone, and (3) he can't break open the long run. I'm still suspicious about his ability to score when someone that's not Thomas Jones sets up the two-yard dive for him. The lack of TDs can somewhat be blamed on Sully (but not busting a 20+ yd TD run in 230 carries is pretty questionable in a so-called "Franchise" running back), but his overall lack of success can only be blamed on lack of talent.

I'm still not sure that a one-back set won't expose his lack of speed even more so. Hard to get those holes in the middle if you don't have a FB making them for you.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,629
Reaction score
6,133
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Sorry to bust your bubble Kerouac, but even if Shipp isn't efficient we're not going to go out of a lot of 5 WR sets. We hired Denny Green, not Jerry Glanville.
 

Mrospi

Registered User
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Posts
1,183
Reaction score
0
Location
Phoenix/west side!!!
I hope our new staff has an imagination.....It would be great to see some designed rollouts with a very mobile QB.....I never understood not using this before with any of our mobile guys.......I think it typically screws up coverage and buys time for Qb's to throw & Wr's to get open....
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,504
Reaction score
27,791
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Mrospi said:
I hope our new staff has an imagination.....It would be great to see some designed rollouts with a very mobile QB.....I never understood not using this before with any of our mobile guys.......I think it typically screws up coverage and buys time for Qb's to throw & Wr's to get open....

Truly. Not to mention that this would give our QBs a little better chance to see the field over our 6'7" O-linemen. Could also probably open up the run in the middle a little bit more, especially on draws and such.
 

Cardsmasochist

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Posts
4,670
Reaction score
6,206
Location
Downtown Phoenix
o-line needs to step up

The offensive line is over paid and underachieve. They will make or break us this year. Leonard Davis needs to step up and play like a first rounder. Ditto LJ Shelton.
 

azdad1978

Championship!!!!
Joined
Dec 8, 2002
Posts
14,981
Reaction score
49
Location
ordinance 2257
Cardsmasochist said:
The offensive line is over paid and underachieve. They will make or break us this year. Leonard Davis needs to step up and play like a first rounder. Ditto LJ Shelton.

LJ is our most consistent Player on the line last year.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
azdad1978 said:
We still have to have success running the football IMO.

Not just in your humble opinion but absolutely. If you cannot have a run threat you cannot pass.
 

john h

Registered User
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
10,552
Reaction score
13
Location
Little Rock
kerouac9 said:
Not really. Marcel had good games, but gets worn down. It's not like many other players (Adrian Wilson, the entire O-line, the entire D-line, etc.) who had miserable seasons as a whole. Marcel has shown that (1) he can't stay healthy, (2) he fumbles way too often, especially in the red zone, and (3) he can't break open the long run. I'm still suspicious about his ability to score when someone that's not Thomas Jones sets up the two-yard dive for him. The lack of TDs can somewhat be blamed on Sully (but not busting a 20+ yd TD run in 230 carries is pretty questionable in a so-called "Franchise" running back), but his overall lack of success can only be blamed on lack of talent.

I'm still not sure that a one-back set won't expose his lack of speed even more so. Hard to get those holes in the middle if you don't have a FB making them for you.

Shipp seems to be an ok runner but nothing more and nothing less. He is unlikely to ever break for a big run. Our problem is what if he gets hurt?
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,504
Reaction score
27,791
Location
Gilbert, AZ
john h said:
Our problem is what if he gets hurt?

Our real problem is that he's always hurt. The quandry is that to last a season healthy he can only be allowed to carry the ball 15 times a game, but he's not effective unless he can tote the ball 25 times a game.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,629
Reaction score
6,133
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Kerouac, I though you're all about the breakaway speed combined with size.

Watch Marion Barber playing for the Gophers next year. Size, speed, everything, returned punts and kicks for them also. They have two other RBs who are sick too. I know too much about Gophers football because my ex-rooommate was from Minneosta and we got the stupid college football package so he could watch them. I've watched almost every one of the kids snaps last year and he's legit. He got over 1000 yards sharing snaps with two other good RBs.

He grew up in the Minnesota area also and his dad was a former athlete so maybe Green will get two Minnesota kids in a row as the backbone of his offense.
 
Last edited:

Chopper0080

2021 - Prove It
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
26,988
Reaction score
35,960
Location
Colorado
The back I would use in a 4 receiver formation would have to be E Smith. He is a very good blocker, has good hands out of the backfield and can still run the ball. Problem with this is the pressure that it puts on your o-line and I'm not sure if ours is there yet.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,504
Reaction score
27,791
Location
Gilbert, AZ
MaoTosiFanClub said:
Kerouac, I though you're all about the breakaway speed combined with size.

Watch Marion Barber playing for the Gophers next year. Size, speed, everything, returned punts and kicks for them also. They have two other RBs who are sick too. I know too much about Gophers football because my ex-rooommate was from Minneosta and we got the stupid college football package so he could watch them. I've watched almost every one of the kids snaps last year and he's legit. He got over 1000 yards sharing snaps with two other good RBs.

He grew up in the Minnesota area also and his dad was a former athlete so maybe Green will get two Minnesota kids in a row as the backbone of his offense.

I'll keep my eye out for him.

If the Cards do pretty well this season, they might be out of the running for the premire backs in the 2005 draft (I've heard Cadilliac Williams and someone else mentioned, as well). I actually applied to Minnesota for grad school last fall. Minny's a great area.

The Bills are going to be without at #1 draft pick, and they'll want to use Travis Henry. He doesn't have the measurables, but I think he has a 2000 yard season in him, and is like Marcel Shipp, only a legitimate NFL starting runningback with breakaway speed. He could be available for as little as a 2nd rounder. He should be someone we look at.

I'm not as concerned with size (I desperately wanted Kevin Jones to fall into the second round) as I am with effectiveness. T. Henry is the real deal.
 

EnglishCardinal

In a land far far away...
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Posts
249
Reaction score
0
Location
Tynemouth, England
going back to Shipp - do you not think he will be a better player next year for having a half season as a starter and a year working with Smith, add this to better calling and improved OL that we all hope we will see this year it could be good for the Tug Boat.......if hes fit !
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,504
Reaction score
27,791
Location
Gilbert, AZ
EnglishCardinal said:
going back to Shipp - do you not think he will be a better player next year for having a half season as a starter and a year working with Smith, add this to better calling and improved OL that we all hope we will see this year it could be good for the Tug Boat.......if hes fit !

No. The scheme doesn't fit him. He won't have as much protection from a blocking fullback, he'll be expected to get around the corner and outside the tackles, and he doesn't have the wheels or the shiftiness to do either. He had six starts in 2002, 11 in 2003. He gained more yardage in 2002 and scored more, as well.

Don't run out and buy those Shipp jerseys just yet. He'll be a backup in 2005 and off the roster after that!
 

Pariah

H.S.
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Posts
35,345
Reaction score
18
Location
The Aventine
kerouac9 said:
No. The scheme doesn't fit him... he'll be expected to get around the corner and outside the tackles,
How do you know so much about the new offensive scheme?

I would guess that Green knows Shipps limitations and would have him running between the tackles as opposed to around the corner--in fact, it seemed that a lot of Bennett's and Rob Smith's longs runs came up the middle (not sure, though).
 

MaoTosiFanClub

The problem
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Posts
12,629
Reaction score
6,133
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
kerouac9 said:
Don't run out and buy those Shipp jerseys just yet. He'll be a backup in 2005 and off the roster after that!

You keep saying this but it's just not true. There is a spot in the Dennis Green offense for a player like Shipp. Marcel Shipp will be the Leroy Hoard/Scottie Graham of Denny Green's Cardinals. A situational runner which will get the tough yards in between the tackles while the home run threat Denny will draft or find will be the primary runner.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,504
Reaction score
27,791
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Pariah said:
How do you know so much about the new offensive scheme?

I would guess that Green knows Shipps limitations and would have him running between the tackles as opposed to around the corner--in fact, it seemed that a lot of Bennett's and Rob Smith's longs runs came up the middle (not sure, though).

I watched a lot of Vikes games back in the heyday (best friend was a big fan) of "Glass Package" Smith and Brad Johnson. One of my most salient memories of those teams was that Smith would finish all his runs by ducking out of bounds. How did he get to the sideline? Perhaps by running counters, sweeps, slashes, etc.

Part of the reason that Smith and Bennett are/were able to break open runs up the middle (and other franchise backs, as well--Fred Taylor comes immediately to mind) is because teams--especially linebackers and safeties--are worried about having to defend the perimiter of the line, and that leaves the middle of the field well open for the "death knell" run.

MaoTosiFanClub said:
You keep saying this but it's just not true. There is a spot in the Dennis Green offense for a player like Shipp. Marcel Shipp will be the Leroy Hoard/Scottie Graham of Denny Green's Cardinals. A situational runner which will get the tough yards in between the tackles while the home run threat Denny will draft or find will be the primary runner.

Well said. But Marcel is making--what?--$1.2 or more per season right now? His contract runs out in 2006? Is he going to take a pay cut--or keep the same salary? I don't know. I think that you can find any number of veteran-minium players that can gain you two yards if you need two yards, and two yards if you need seven yards. I'm just not certain that we'll be willing to pay Marcel as much has he's presently making (or more) to do that duty.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
542,747
Posts
5,312,806
Members
6,290
Latest member
stbmd
Top