For What It's Worth In June, Defensive Edition

[Goodyear Card]

A guess at the Cardinals' starting defensive lineup for the 2025 season-opener against the Saints

 

[Goldfield]

My fantasy is Jordan Burch or BJ beat out Zaven.

 

[BACH]

My fantasy is Jordan Burch or BJ beat out Zaven.

Doubt it. Zaven is a very good 2-down OLB. Browning subbing in on 3rd round pass rush. Pretty strong duo.

Would of course be fantastic if someone was able to.

But the combined skillset of Collins and Browning is an above average/borderline pro-bowl OLB. I’m skeptical BJ or Burch can make a leap to Collins’ level on 1st and 2nd AND Browning’s level on 3rd.

 

[Goldfield]

Doubt it. Zaven is a very good 2-down OLB. Browning subbing in on 3rd round pass rush. Pretty strong duo.

Would of course be fantastic if someone was able to.

But the combined skillset of Collins and Browning is an above average/borderline pro-bowl OLB. I’m skeptical BJ or Burch can make a leap to Collins’ level on 1st and 2nd AND Browning’s level on 3rd.

It’s a fun problem to have

 

[DVontel]

My fantasy is Jordan Burch or BJ beat out Zaven.

Zaven is our best run-defending EDGE so that’s a scary fantasy since I don’t see Burch being that his first year & BJ is too lean.

 

[kerouac9]

But the combined skillset of Collins and Browning is an above average/borderline pro-bowl OLB.

Um okay

 

[oaken1]

Um okay

I just let it go man,...you really gotta learn to ley crap just slide on by brother...

 

[BACH]

Um okay

Metrics show that it’s where Colins rank as a 2 down backer and where Browning ranks as a pure 3rd down backer.

Would be nice to have that in one player, but here’s it’s spread on two

 

[kerouac9]

Metrics show that it’s where Colins rank as a 2 down backer and where Browning ranks as a pure 3rd down backer.

Would be nice to have that in one player, but here’s it’s spread on two

Grades aren’t metrics.

Get some perspective.

 

[football karma]

i will give the coaches and Monti credit for Zaven

99% of the time, a draft pick from the prior FO that didnt meet expectations would be allowed to leave and nobody would care--

but, he has a role the coaches like and Monti signed him to a deal that reflects that role.

Zaven is a useful contributing player that had he been a 3rd round pick, we would all be happy with him

 

[BACH]

Grades aren’t metrics.

Get some perspective.

Interesting take.

Do you care to explain?

This is a random definition of metrics:
In general, metrics are quantifiable measures used to track and assess performance, progress, or results.

You can disagree all what you want with pff grades but their are based on metrics.

Pff grade OLBs by pass-rush, run defense, tackling and coverage.

Zaven ranks top 5 in run D and tackling and average in coverage. Browning ranked 16th in the league after joining the team. Combine that and you have a good solution.

 

[phillycard]

i will give the coaches and Monti credit for Zaven

99% of the time, a draft pick from the prior FO that didnt meet expectations would be allowed to leave and nobody would care--

but, he has a role the coaches like and Monti signed him to a deal that reflects that role.

Zaven is a useful contributing player that had he been a 3rd round pick, we would all be happy with him

I love Zaven. I really do, but I'm going to go out on a limb and demand more from him this year. He's really just been a guy if I'm being honest, and if we weren't so hyper focused on moving off of the old regime, he'd be more of whipping boy for the fan base given his draft position.

 

[kerouac9]

You can disagree all what you want with pff grades but their are based on metrics.

They are not. They are based on grades: human viewers inputting their opinions and then it being processed in various ways.

That’s not a metric.

Zaven ranks top 5 in run D and tackling and average in coverage. Browning ranked 16th in the league after joining the team. Combine that and you have a good solution

It’s not a bad solution but it’s not a borderline pro bowl solution, either.

 

[BACH]

They are not. They are based on grades: human viewers inputting their opinions and then it being processed in various ways.

That’s not a metric.


It’s not a bad solution but it’s not a borderline pro bowl solution, either.

I disagree because it’s metrics in a model. Sure, there is a human evaluation aspect, but it’s based on a model and that still makes it metrics.

If the word pro-bowl ticks you off that much it’s just semantics. My point was that if you in one player had a top 5 run defender, top 5 tackler, average coverage skills and 16th best pass rusher that would be a player somewhere in the 8-15 range for a position. That is the level below, but not pro-bowl level

 

[Oklahoma Card]

A guess at the Cardinals' starting defensive lineup for the 2025 season-opener against the Saints

Assuming this is correct, I like it! Where would our biggest need(s) be?

 

[BACH]

Assuming this is correct, I like it! Where would our biggest need(s) be?

Until we have seen what level Adams has developed to, it’s easily interior O-line IMO

 

[kerouac9]

I disagree because it’s metrics in a model. Sure, there is a human evaluation aspect, but it’s based on a model and that still makes it metrics.

If the word pro-bowl ticks you off that much it’s just semantics. My point was that if you in one player had a top 5 run defender, top 5 tackler, average coverage skills and 16th best pass rusher that would be a player somewhere in the 8-15 range for a position. That is the level below, but not pro-bowl level

Bro it is not. There are no on-field metrics being used in those grades. Look it up where those grades come from. They're even called "grades" or "ratings" which highlight the subjectivity. If a running back makes a three yard run or a seven yard run, it doesn't matter. If the game charter gives the former a +2 and the latter a +1, that does impact the grade/rating.

 

[BigDavis75]

Until we have seen what level Adams has developed to, it’s easily interior O-line IMO

To add to this, our depth is bad/unproven there and Brown is an average starter who probably played to his ceiling last year.

 

[Oklahoma Card]

I agree interior O-line is a big question mark but this thread is Defensive Edition. What is our biggest need on defense?

 

[oaken1]

I agree interior O-line is a big question mark but this thread is Defensive Edition. What is our biggest need on defense?

DROY

 

[Harry]

Zaven is our best run-defending EDGE so that’s a scary fantasy since I don’t see Burch being that his first year & BJ is too lean.

Burch fascinates me. I don’t think he was well used in college. He flashed all kinds of potential. I’m very excited to see what coaching can do with him. He might even be special with some work.

 

[BACH]

Bro it is not. There are no on-field metrics being used in those grades. Look it up where those grades come from. They're even called "grades" or "ratings" which highlight the subjectivity. If a running back makes a three yard run or a seven yard run, it doesn't matter. If the game charter gives the former a +2 and the latter a +1, that does impact the grade/rating.

No point in argueing when you have painted yourself in a position where actual stats are not the key points of the metrics.

That is just an insane take, sorry

 

[BigDavis75]

I agree interior O-line is a big question mark but this thread is Defensive Edition. What is our biggest need on defense?

Corners lack experience but I have faith and think the unit will be strong by end of year. Off ball LB strikes me as our weakest spot but I think ADG or the Ohio state rookie will be passable in the spot next to Wilson.

 

[CardNots]

No point in arguing when you have painted yourself in a position where actual stats are not the key points of the metrics.

That is just an insane take, sorry

With K9 its unlikely to gain an upper hand. Take in his input and move on.

 

[cardcrazy]

Assuming this is correct, I like it! Where would our biggest need(s) be?

On paper this looks great! If this group can stay healthy and perform to expectations I don’t see a glaring need at all. Ojulari, Nolen, Taylor-Demerson, Browning, Starling Thomas, Gaither all backups to this projection.