Dolphins cheating/tampering

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Shane

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I did not see anything in the article about tanking. Was that reported elsewhere?
It only talked about tampering related to Brady and Sean Payton
I honestly didn’t read this article it’s the first one I found to link at the top of the page… I was reading the captions across the TV at the gym and it said it was related to Flores accusation that the owner ordered him to take games on purpose… Headline said they were found guilty and penalized. if it’s related to something else tempering wise I’m not aware?
 

ASUCHRIS

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It is… But if it’s related to actually ordering your coach to Tank games it should be way worse in my opinion
Yeah, if they caught him red handed, then maybe he should pay more for saying the quiet part out loud...
 

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It is… But if it’s related to actually ordering your coach to Tank games it should be way worse in my opinion

I guess I missed this is just related to the improper contact with Brady and Payton, but I agree if they prove Flores was told to tank multiple 1st round picks should be taken. To me that would be far worse than what the T-Wolves did with Joe Smith and the NBA crushed them for it.
 

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Kudos to the NFL following through with a stiff penalty rather than a slap on the hand.

This stuff happens but we generally don't hear about it.

Whether it should be more severe can be debated.
 

daves

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The Athletic confirmed the reported tampering with Brady and Payton, and summarized the finding regarding "tanking" as follows:
The league also investigated claims from former Dolphins coach Brian Flores that the team intentionally tried to lose games while he was the coach. The league concluded the Dolphins didn’t intentionally lose games in the 2019 season.

“Every club is expected to make a good faith effort to win every game,” Goodell said. “The integrity of the game, and public confidence in professional football, demand no less. An owner or senior executive must understand the weight that his or her words carry, and the risk that a comment will be taken seriously and acted upon, even if that is not the intent or expectation. Even if made in jest and not intended to be taken seriously, comments suggesting that draft position is more important than winning can be misunderstood and carry with them an unnecessary potential risk to the integrity of the game.

“The comments made by Mr. Ross did not affect coach Flores’ commitment to win and the Dolphins competed to win every game. Coach Flores is to be commended for not allowing any comment about the relative importance of draft position to affect his commitment to win throughout the season.”

Here are the league’s findings for these claims:

  • The Dolphins did not intentionally lose games during the 2019 season. Nor did anyone at the club, including Ross, instruct Flores to do so. No witness contended otherwise. The Dolphins competed hard to win every game, including at the end of the season when they beat Cincinnati and New England, despite worsening Miami’s position in the
    2020 draft.
  • On a number of occasions during the 2019 season, Ross expressed his belief that the Dolphins’ position in the upcoming 2020 draft should take priority over the team’s win-loss record. These comments were made most frequently to team president and CEO Tom Garfinkel, but were also made to general manager Chris Grier, senior vice president Brandon Shore and Flores. These comments, which he took to be suggestions that he loses games, troubled Flores and led him to express his concerns in writing to senior club executives, each of whom assured Flores that everyone, including Ross, supported him in building a winning culture in Miami. After this, Ross no longer made any such comments to Flores.
  • One such comment is a claimed offer by Ross to pay Flores $100,000 to lose games, as to which there are differing recollections about the wording, timing, and context. However phrased, such a comment was not intended or taken to be a serious offer, nor was the subject pursued in any respect by Ross or anyone else at the club.
So basically, Ross repeatedly suggested that the team should tank to Flores and everyone in upper management, but Flores continued trying to win, so... Ross gets off scot free for that!

...dave
 

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The Athletic confirmed the reported tampering with Brady and Payton, and summarized the finding regarding "tanking" as follows:

So basically, Ross repeatedly suggested that the team should tank to Flores and everyone in upper management, but Flores continued trying to win, so... Ross gets off scot free for that!

...dave
Yeah… that conclusion is ridiculous.
 

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I completely understand how intentionally tanking ruins the game.......but I wouldn't claim to be above it in the right situation. If you believe an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Burrows is coming out in the draft and your chances are slim-to-none of making the playoffs, why not tank?

I view this as an issue of incentives. Bad/Mediocre teams need an incentive to continue playing. (apart from a subjective sense of pride/integrity) I don't know what the answer is to this. "Play-in" games for the 4 teams on the cusp -- similar to NCAA? I don't know that there is a good answer.

An intentional tank is always going to be hard to prove.
 
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I completely understand how intentionally tanking ruins the game.......but I wouldn't claim to be above it in the right situation. If you believe an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Burrows is coming out in the draft and your chances are slim-to-none of making the playoffs, why not tank?

I view this as an issue of incentives. Bad/Mediocre teams need an incentive to continue playing. (apart from a subjective sense of pride/integrity) I don't know what the answer is to this. "Play-in" games for the 4 teams on the cusp -- similar to NCAA? I don't know that there is a good answer.

An intentional tank is always going to be hard to prove.
It destroys the integrity of the game PERIOD.
 

oaken1

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I completely understand how intentionally tanking ruins the game.......but I wouldn't claim to be above it in the right situation. If you believe an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Burrows is coming out in the draft and your chances are slim-to-none of making the playoffs, why not tank?

I view this as an issue of incentives. Bad/Mediocre teams need an incentive to continue playing. (apart from a subjective sense of pride/integrity) I don't know what the answer is to this. "Play-in" games for the 4 teams on the cusp -- similar to NCAA? I don't know that there is a good answer.

An intentional tank is always going to be hard to prove.
Top 5 lottery?

Nba has a similar system....it works kinda
 

dreamcastrocks

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It destroys the integrity of the game PERIOD.
I wouldn't say period. Especially when so many other decisions that the NFL makes hurts the 'integrity of the game.' We only have to look at the Watson disaster as proof.

The QB is such an important player, probably the most in all of sports. You have a very limited chance to get one that can change your franchise. You usually have to be terrible to be able to draft one of those guys.
 

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Top 5 lottery?

Nba has a similar system....it works kinda

Yeah, bad teams still have reason to tank, but it doesn't seem so blatant anymore with the top picks not guaranteed.

This was the results after the 2022 NBA Draft Lottery.

1. Orlando (up from No. 2)
2. Oklahoma City (up from No. 4)
3. Houston (down from No. 1)
4. Sacramento (up from No. 7)
5. Detroit (down from No. 3)


 
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I wouldn't say period. Especially when so many other decisions that the NFL makes hurts the 'integrity of the game.' We only have to look at the Watson disaster as proof.

The QB is such an important player, probably the most in all of sports. You have a very limited chance to get one that can change your franchise. You usually have to be terrible to be able to draft one of those guys.
Watson issue is not the same as wins and losses and directly and purposely losing games. It absolutely and 100% benefits other teams in the middle of a playoff hunt etc. it is 100% an integrity issue. Not even really debatable.
 

HairZach

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I completely understand how intentionally tanking ruins the game.......but I wouldn't claim to be above it in the right situation. If you believe an Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, or Burrows is coming out in the draft and your chances are slim-to-none of making the playoffs, why not tank?

I view this as an issue of incentives. Bad/Mediocre teams need an incentive to continue playing. (apart from a subjective sense of pride/integrity) I don't know what the answer is to this. "Play-in" games for the 4 teams on the cusp -- similar to NCAA? I don't know that there is a good answer.

An intentional tank is always going to be hard to prove.
Making your team worse by trading away good players I approve of, but actual tanking has downsides that make it not worth imo.

Intentionally losing is not going to sit right with your players. The coach will lose the locker room. Players put way too much effort/pain into this to be okay with losing, especially since the NFL has a 100% injury rate and losing will hurt their contract talks. This is their craft and their reputation. Even worse would be if your players actually did get comfortable losing. Its hard to put the genie back in the bottle with that. Yeah you get a nice 1st round pick, but you might have ruined the development of most of your roster.

Plus things would get silly fast if multiple teams started tanking and we had to watch those teams play each other.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Watson issue is not the same as wins and losses and directly and purposely losing games. It absolutely and 100% benefits other teams in the middle of a playoff hunt etc. it is 100% an integrity issue. Not even really debatable.
...and yet here we are debating it.

Do I think teams should lose on purpose... not really. Do I think that would help an already bad team to lose a game or two if it means drafting Peyton, Brady, Brees, Luck etc? Absolutely. QB's are that important. Whether we like it or not, that is the state of the current game.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Yeah, bad teams still have reason to tank, but it doesn't seem so blatant anymore with the top picks not guaranteed.

This was the results after the 2022 NBA Draft Lottery.

1. Orlando (up from No. 2)
2. Oklahoma City (up from No. 4)
3. Houston (down from No. 1)
4. Sacramento (up from No. 7)
5. Detroit (down from No. 3)


Exactly the point. Take away the incentive tanking, and it won't happen as much.

I'd love to see the NFL have some sort of lottery.
 

oaken1

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Yeah, bad teams still have reason to tank, but it doesn't seem so blatant anymore with the top picks not guaranteed.

This was the results after the 2022 NBA Draft Lottery.

1. Orlando (up from No. 2)
2. Oklahoma City (up from No. 4)
3. Houston (down from No. 1)
4. Sacramento (up from No. 7)
5. Detroit (down from No. 3)


or go real crazy/// super bowl teams are 31 and 32

every other team gets one ball per loss..... draw the top 10, slot the remaining 20 teams based on record
 

oaken1

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ooo...and let it get crazier....

allow teams to trade lotto balls....

might be nothing, might be the first pick..who knows?


: In other news today the cleveland Browns traded baker mayfield to Miami for a third round pick in 2023 and 2 lotto balls in the 2024 drawing... those dolphins must have really wanted Mayfield"
 

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Yeah, bad teams still have reason to tank, but it doesn't seem so blatant anymore with the top picks not guaranteed.

This was the results after the 2022 NBA Draft Lottery.

1. Orlando (up from No. 2)
2. Oklahoma City (up from No. 4)
3. Houston (down from No. 1)
4. Sacramento (up from No. 7)
5. Detroit (down from No. 3)


I don’t watch the NBA until the playoffs start, so I hope the NFL doesn’t go that route.
 

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