DId we move up?

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by Yuma, Jul 1, 2019.

  1. CardsSunsDbacks

    CardsSunsDbacks ASFN Contributor Contributor

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    This is talking about just a pure +/- stat. BPM according to BB Reference is "a boxscore estimate of the points per 100 possessions a player contributed above a league average player, translated to an average team". That has very little to do with the actual plus minus of a player when they are on the court. As far as +/- is concerned Rubio was a +250, Baynes +130, Saric -67, Carter -89 and Kaminsky +42.

    Ultimately not a great stat to hang your hat on as all of the returning players had a very negative +/- as well. As for BPM Baynes was +0.2, Rubio 0.0, Saric -1.1, Carter -4.0 and Kaminsky -0.9. The key players that didn't return were Crawford -6.0, Okobo -5.9, Jackson -4.8, Daniels -4.4, Bender -3.4, Melton -2.6, Warren -1.7 and Holmes +1.4. Booker (+0.8) and Ayton (+0.2) are the only returning players from last year that had a positive BPM.
     
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  2. BC867

    BC867 Long time Phoenician! Contributor

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    All of which, of course, also reflect the players around them and the skill of the GM and coaching staff in planning and executing.

    Basketball with its flexibility on the court (your Small Forward might be your best rebounder) is not in the same category as the
    rigidity of football or even baseball or hockey and soccer. Or a team playing a season without a legitimate Point Guard or Power
    Forward facilitating or helping in the paint. Basketball seems more interdependent in affecting the score anytime during a game.

    It seems that only superstars can overcome that on a routine basis.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
  3. Chaplin

    Chaplin Better off silent

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    TBuck for the win!

     
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  4. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Again I really dont understand the handwringing about the Suns offseason.

    About the only move that was obviously really crappy was the Warren trade. Not trading him, but giving up a pick. Then again...do the Suns really a 2nd rounder to develop?
     
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  5. JCSunsfan

    JCSunsfan Registered User

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    Suns fans secretly fear that TJ will just blow up for the Pacers, and we will continue to be the laughingstock of the league--to a lesser extent there is the same concern about JJ.
     
  6. BC867

    BC867 Long time Phoenician! Contributor

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    It wouldn't be a laughingstock if they realize that Warren did not fit here.

    And if he continues to put up numbers on offense, but not affect wins.

    And as far as JJ, he might do some spectacular things now and then, but
    it would a surprise if he suddenly develops a basketball, or social, IQ.
     
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  7. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    This happens in all sports leagues. You have a guy that you have to move on from, but there is always the risk that the player will be better in a new organization.

    TJ wore out his welcome last season. We've only heard whispers, but the fact that he held himself out because of "ankle soreness" doesn't speak to well about his loyalty to the organization. The team had to move on from him. That kind of behavior can be cancerous to a team.
     
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  8. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    JJ could still develop, but to think things were going to change in Phoenix is a ridiculous conclusion.

    I totally agree with James Jones, the Suns needed more veterans in the program. To try and build a program with a bunch of rudderless 19 and 20 years with a few guys in their late thirties who suck as players is a blue print for failure. That's why the "sum of the whole being greater than the parts" method that Jones took was the smart one.

    Guys who don't want to play (Warren) or proven they can't (JJ) had to go, especially when you consider their salaries stopped the team from signing guys that can play.
     
  9. Chris_Sanders

    Chris_Sanders Super Moderator Contributor

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    I am just counting the three eyed alien as our 2nd rounder right now
     
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  10. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    He has talent, that's for sure.

    If he had been the 32nd pick, would anyone be mad right now? Probably not, but from the way people feel on this board....probably yes.
     
  11. elindholm

    elindholm edited for content

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    Works for me, especially since I have no memory at all of who the Suns actually took in the second round.
     
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  12. SirStefan32

    SirStefan32 Krycek, Alex Krycek

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    I wish I could forget who they took in the first round for a couple of years before Ayton and Bridges. :D
     
  13. JCSunsfan

    JCSunsfan Registered User

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    This seems to be a fairly level-headed evaluation of our off-season from a non-Suns source. The indication is that insiders around the league were puzzled about what the Suns were doing when it was happening, but then got it after it was all done. The end reaction was moderately positive. That pretty much mirrors the reactions of fans and board posters too.

    https://basketball.realgm.com/analy...nference-Offseason-Chatter-From-Summer-League

    • Opposing executive on the Suns offseason: “Outside of our own team, the conversation we’ve had most is ‘What is Phoenix doing?’ You have any ideas? It looked like they were clearing cap space, but then they took money on later. I don’t get it. But in the end, they look kind of…good? Maybe that is too strong. Better? Yeah. Better is a good way to put it. They got helpful guys for them.”
    • Suns coach on the new additions: “We needed two things and we got them. We need a veteran point guard who can set guys up and run a system. Ricky Rubio is that guy. I bet Devin (Booker) improves a ton just because Rubio will get him the ball in the right spots and on-time too. We also needed a big to push DeAndre (Ayton) and to do the dirty work. No one better at that than Aron Baynes. And Dario Saric and Frank Kaminsky give us different looks too. I like our options this year.”
    • Opposing coach on playing Phoenix: “The last couple of years you knew you had a win unless (Devin) Booker got hot. They just didn’t have anything else. Now, they sort of have an identity. You have to be on your game now. I think the guy who is being underrated there is Dario Saric. He’s really a great fit next to Ayton. He’s already done that for years next to (Joel) Embiid and (Karl-Anthony) Towns. I bet he’s the best of all the guys they added.”
    • Team executive on the draft: “At our original spot, we didn’t want to bring in another guy who was too similar to Devin (Booker) and Mikal (Bridges). We’re high on those guys. Reading the board, we thought that was going to be who was there. So, we moved back and also picked up Dario (Saric). Did we draft Cameron Johnson too high? No. We didn’t. This guy is ready to play now and will be a great shooter in our league. And then later in the night we added Ty Jerome, who can give us another big guard. Not everyone agrees, and that’s ok, but we think we had a great draft.”
     
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