De la Hoya gets screwed again...

sly fly

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He won the fight. Plain and simple.

What's with him and the judges? He got screwed EXACTLY the same way with Trinidad.

Judges in boxing are horrid.
 

Shane

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Originally posted by Chaplin
I don't know, I heard Sugar Shane dominated him in the last 4 rounds.

You heard very much incorrectly! I watched this from the beginning to the end and De La Hoya dominated this fight from beginning to end! This is why Im giving up on boxing. It was an obvious fix!

Even BIG GEORGE FOREMAN was stating that this is terrible and horrible for boxing following the fight. The announcers score card had 8 rounds to De La Hoya and 4 for Mosely with the 4 for Mosely being called tough to judge.

This was a complete domination in the ring be De La Hoya and if I were him I would just retire because boxing is just as bad as WWF IMO!
 

AZCB34

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Originally posted by Shane H
You heard very much incorrectly! I watched this from the beginning to the end and De La Hoya dominated this fight from beginning to end! This is why Im giving up on boxing. It was an obvious fix!

Even BIG GEORGE FOREMAN was stating that this is terrible and horrible for boxing following the fight. The announcers score card had 8 rounds to De La Hoya and 4 for Mosely with the 4 for Mosely being called tough to judge.

This was a complete domination in the ring be De La Hoya and if I were him I would just retire because boxing is just as bad as WWF IMO!

Were you at the fight? I swear I saw a cop walking in with Cotto in the undercard and it looked like you.

Lederman had it 115-113 DLH but I thought he awarded 2 rounds to DLH that Mosely won (IMO). I was not shocked by the decision because it kind of fit mentally with what I was sensing but I will admit, it appeared DLH had control of this fight.
 

Chaplin

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That's funny, I've heard on television and on radio that every media person at the side of the ring had Mosley winning. Every one. And some by a lot-- 8 rounds to 4, 9 rounds to 3.

I find it funny that you are so adamant about the decision when not only were the judges, but the media AND the people in the stands thought differently.
 

Chaz

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Ok please excuse my stupid rant on boxing

The only boxing I can watch is at the olympics.

Professional boxing has always been a scam IMO. I put it 1/2 a step above pro wrestling.

It never ceases to amaze me every time there is a "big fight" people get all excited then bitch about how it is fixed. Of couse it is fixed. The next fight comes along and people are all excited again.

I have great respect for the skills of the participants but the sport is like a bad joke IMO.

No offense intended to the die hard boxing fans, I just don't get it.
 

Shane

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Originally posted by Chaplin
That's funny, I've heard on television and on radio that every media person at the side of the ring had Mosley winning. Every one. And some by a lot-- 8 rounds to 4, 9 rounds to 3.

I find it funny that you are so adamant about the decision when not only were the judges, but the media AND the people in the stands thought differently.

Umm ok thats why some of the most respected names and commentators in boxing who were handling the pay per view event all stated that this was terrible and bad for boxing. Stating clearly in there eyes that the fight was won by De La Hoya.

If you didnt see it I wouldnt comment on it. It was an obvious fix. By the way Chap if the fix is in wouldnt you think that it would be easy to pay-off some media as well so there supposed unbalanced opinions match yours????

Cubbie,

I was not there. Was sittin in the comforts of my living room watching on my new Plasma TV :)
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by Shane H
Umm ok thats why some of the most respected names and commentators in boxing who were handling the pay per view event all stated that this was terrible and bad for boxing. Stating clearly in there eyes that the fight was won by De La Hoya.

If you didnt see it I wouldnt comment on it. It was an obvious fix. By the way Chap if the fix is in wouldnt you think that it would be easy to pay-off some media as well so there supposed unbalanced opinions match yours????

Cubbie,

I was not there. Was sittin in the comforts of my living room watching on my new Plasma TV :)

Yelling about conspiracies and fixes is the sign of a deluded mind. I was in favor of Oscar winning, but to call out a conspiracy is the sign of bad sportsmanship.

You ever wonder why every single fight has somebody (usually from the losing side and its fans) calling for a review? And how many of those are proved to be fixed?
 

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Originally posted by Chaplin
Yelling about conspiracies and fixes is the sign of a deluded mind. I was in favor of Oscar winning, but to call out a conspiracy is the sign of bad sportsmanship.

You ever wonder why every single fight has somebody (usually from the losing side and its fans) calling for a review? And how many of those are proved to be fixed?

Im not a boxing fan per sey and if it wasnt for my GF wanting to see the fight because she loves Oscar I wouldnt even have ordered it. I had no pre conceived idea of who I wanted to win nor did I have a favorite.

I watched the fight unbiased(Like Im sure the commentators do) De La Hoya won and it has nothing to do with sportsmanship!
 
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sly fly

sly fly

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Originally posted by Chaplin
Gimme a break.

:rolleyes:

Did you watch the fight?

Then shut your pie hole.

P.S. I'm really getting sick of some of the posters on this board.
 

Ryanwb

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Originally posted by sly fly
Did you watch the fight?

Then shut your pie hole.

P.S. I'm really getting sick of some of the posters on this board.

I agree, how can you even have an opinion if you didn't even watch the fight in the first place????? :doi:

p.s. Oscar got robbed baby, I was stunned when they announced the decision
 

AZCB34

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One of the things that hurt DLH, IMO, was that he ran out of gas and let Mosely back into the fight. Those late rounds were won by Mosely but not decisively so. Had DLH had anything left in the tank, I think he would have gotten the decision. He was penalized for not keeping up the pace. DLH looked dead those last few rounds to me.

I was not surprised by the decision presonally.
 
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sly fly

sly fly

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AZCB,

Yes, DLH looked tired those last four. But, you know why? Because he was doing all of the punching throughout the fight.

Sugar didn't do anything to "win" the fight, IMO. Even his father told him he was getting beat. And, his father was his cornerman!

DLH dictated the tempo for the majority of the fight. He didn't really hurt Sugar, but that shouldn't matter.

Did you see the look on Sugar's eyes when they announced him the winner? Believe me, he was the most surprised person in the place.

I'm not sure what drugs those "writers" at ringside were on, but I want some.
 

NDSunsfan

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What is the only sport that nobody knows the score, even the participants, until it's over?

Or,

Is it really a sport if the winner is determined solely by the opinion of another person? Is it a sport because it's athletic? But with no clear way to win the contest without convincing a third party you won seems to take away part of what makes sports so much fun.

Would it be better if they posted the judges scores round by round?

Or is this just part of the sweet science?

I'm not a big boxing fan, and I didn't see or hear one second about this fight, but this discussion continues to convince why I'll never be a boxing fan.

That and Mike Tyson........

Brad
 

AZCB34

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Originally posted by sly fly
AZCB,

Yes, DLH looked tired those last four. But, you know why? Because he was doing all of the punching throughout the fight.

Sugar didn't do anything to "win" the fight, IMO. Even his father told him he was getting beat. And, his father was his cornerman!

DLH dictated the tempo for the majority of the fight. He didn't really hurt Sugar, but that shouldn't matter.

Did you see the look on Sugar's eyes when they announced him the winner? Believe me, he was the most surprised person in the place.

I'm not sure what drugs those "writers" at ringside were on, but I want some.

I was actually surprised at the decision but not shocked. Those l;ast few rounds really hurt DLH. All he had to do wa win one and he probably wins it. But since he was gassed he couldn't win one when it was most needed.

I based my scoring analysis on what lederman was scoring it as and the fact I trhought he awarded 2 rounds to DLH that I felt Mosely had won.

I don't buy the argument the fix was in though. I thought it was closer than most thought.

On a side note, were you expecting Foreman to beat Larry Merchant senseless after the fight? It looked like Foreman might reach over and strangle the guy.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by sly fly
Did you watch the fight?

Then shut your pie hole.

P.S. I'm really getting sick of some of the posters on this board.

:wave:

Seriously, though, you are right, I didn't see the fight. And not once did I comment on the number of punches, or whatever. I simply stated what I have read and/or heard in the media. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement, but that's what I've seen.

I also know that a lot of fans, maybe a majority of fans, of a loser in a boxing match cry foul. But it's not always true. In fact, I can probably count on one hand the number of times when it was proven that a fight was fixed.

Was this fight fixed? I don't know. But according to the media, :rolleyes: it wasn't. And wouldn't it make sense that if there WAS a fix, that the media would be all over it?
 
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sly fly

sly fly

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Originally posted by Chaplin
:wave:

Seriously, though, you are right, I didn't see the fight. And not once did I comment on the number of punches, or whatever. I simply stated what I have read and/or heard in the media. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement, but that's what I've seen.

I also know that a lot of fans, maybe a majority of fans, of a loser in a boxing match cry foul. But it's not always true. In fact, I can probably count on one hand the number of times when it was proven that a fight was fixed.

Was this fight fixed? I don't know. But according to the media, :rolleyes: it wasn't. And wouldn't it make sense that if there WAS a fix, that the media would be all over it?

I also don't think it was fixed. I just think SOME judges shouldn't be allowed to score bouts. Much less allowed in the venue. This fight doesn't even come close to some of the atrocious decisions I've seen over the years.

Perhaps John McCain is right and boxing should be regulated by the government.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by sly fly


Perhaps John McCain is right and boxing should be regulated by the government.

I'd hate to see that. But then again, we're talking about sanctioned beatings, basically.

The problem lies with the judges, and the selection process. If it is boxing's ruling body that determines who is a judge or who isn't (not which fight a particular judge sits on), then there is a problem with the ruling body.

Many of us have screamed about the quality of officials in our various favorite leagues, but there's a reason why NFL officials are among the best in the world--the boxing commission needs to look at the NFL's process with officials and institute it into their selection/process of their own judges.
 

AZCB34

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http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/boxing/2003/sep/15/091508282.html

September 15, 2003

Dahlberg: De La Hoya Should Remain Silent
By TIM DAHLBERG
ASSOCIATED PRESS

LAS VEGAS (AP) -

So, Oscar De La Hoya wants an investigation of this whole nasty mess made by three guys sitting at ringside.

Not for himself, the Golden Boy insists, but for the good of boxing.

This begs the obvious question. Just what good is De La Hoya doing for the sport of boxing by insinuating that the judges who scored Saturday night's fight for Shane Mosley were corrupt, blind or merely incompetent?

No good at all, of course. And by the time De La Hoya sits down in his office to call his high-priced lawyers and make a further mockery of the whole idea, maybe he'll have calmed down enough to realize he should keep his mouth shut.

Boxing doesn't need this, not after enduring the tiresome antics of Mike Tyson for so long, and not after a fight between two classy boxers who draw nothing but positive attention to the sport.

Boxing surely doesn't need this from someone who has become rich beyond belief in the ring and gotten a few charitable decisions himself.

The simple truth is that, while boxing may have a lot of problems, crooked judging in this fight wasn't one of them.

"These are honest men and they scored the fight the way they did. To me, there is no controversy," said Marc Ratner, executive director of the Nevada Athletic Commission. "It's a close fight that could have gone either way. This is the way the judges saw it. If it went the other way, Mosley's camp would have been the ones protesting."

Ratner is right, and maybe the people screaming the Golden Boy got robbed should listen. Say what you want about the sport, but Ratner stands tall as its beacon of integrity.

Long before De La Hoya and Mosley entered the ring, Ratner figured it would be a close fight with a lot of rounds that would be tough to call. That's what happened the first time they met, and there was no reason to think the rematch would be any different.

That's why Ratner went outside Nevada to look for top judges. He brought in Anek Hongtongkam from Thailand and Stanley Christodoulou of South Africa, both respected judges. The third judge was Duane Ford, a Las Vegan who has judged some 140 title fights with distinction.

All three judges saw the fight the same way, almost round for round. Two gave Mosley the last four rounds, while Ford gave him the last five. The final score on all three cards was 115-113.

Agree with them or not, judging fights is a subjective business. Few would argue that it wasn't a close fight, and the scoring certainly reflected that. Mosley had a slight - very slight - edge on the scorecards, but it was enough to win.

Those are the rules in boxing. If a fight goes to a decision, judges vote on who wins. It's been that way for the better part of a century now, and De La Hoya certainly knew the rules when he stepped into the ring.

Sure, ringside punching statistics showed De La Hoya with a clear edge in punches landed. But what do those statistics mean and how accurate are they? Two humans are scoring those blows as they see them, just as the judges are scoring the fight as they see it. When De La Hoya and Mosley fought in frenzied flurries it would be impossible for anyone to tally what scored and what didn't.

Except if they watched on HBO's pay-per-view telecast, that is. There, announcers Jim Lampley, Larry Merchant and George Foreman spent the night telling viewers how De La Hoya was dominating this fight. Anyone watching on TV would have had to watch with the sound turned off to think Mosley might have won.

HBO, of course, has a vested interest in De La Hoya. He's the biggest pay-per-view attraction the network has, and together they've profited richly over the years. A De La Hoya win would be much better for business than a victory by Mosley, who has yet to prove he can sell tickets or boost ratings.

That's one reason why Mosley's father, Jack, was urging his son to do something dramatic in the late rounds. Jack Mosley saw a conspiracy, too, with a town and a network against his fighter.

Yes, De La Hoya was disappointed, and bitterly so. He thought he won the fight, and you'll never convince him otherwise.

But the sight of him standing with a big bandage over the cut near his right eye at the postfight news conference and claiming there was something nefarious going on was a pathetic one indeed for such a proud warrior.

"You're a sore loser," someone yelled.

Perhaps De La Hoya has forgotten getting the benefit of an 11-10 decision over Hong Song-Sik of South Korea in the semifinals of the 1992 Olympics that allowed him to go on and win the gold medal that helped make him rich and famous. Maybe he can't remember the decision in a fight against Pernell Whitaker that many thought Whitaker won.

De La Hoya certainly wasn't calling for any investigations then.

"I'm not doing this because I'm a sore loser," De La Hoya said. "I'm doing this for the sport of boxing."

Do something else for the sport of boxing, Oscar. Give this up before it gets even sillier than it already is.

Otherwise, the Golden Boy may start looking more like the Golden Baby.
 

slinslin

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Please..
I watched the fight and De La hoya was screwed. Two judges gave Mosley the last 5 rounds and 1 the last 4.
That was a joke.

And how do you know the media people around the ring had Mosley winning?

George Foreman scored the fight 118-112 for De la Hoya or something like that.

Mosley himself thought it was a tie at best probably.

The guy who was interviewing Mosley and De la Hoya after the fight certainly didn't think Mosley was the winner either.
 

CardAvenger

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My thoughts on the fight.

I watched the fight last Saturday, and wasn't too suprised by the outcome. If you watch the fight over again, I think you'll see why.

Sure DLH hit Mosley more, but how many of those punches really affected him. I mean, how many of those were in the arm or glove? Mosley wasn't even phased after the fight. DLH didn't even hurt him. On the other hand, DLH was clearly hurting. Granted, the headbutt caused the cut, but is sure as hell didn't cause that big lump on his cheek. I can't be the only one who noticed that DLH was doing his best to guard his ribs on his left side for the last 4-5 rounds of the fight, can I? Mosley worked his body pretty good.

I thought Mosley clearly put a better beating on DLH as far as the "hurt" factor goes, but unfortunately there isn't really a way to judge that unless the guy is knocked out.

I think they need to figure out a way to judge fights not soley on punches thrown and landed. Since that is how they currently judge fights, YES, DLH should have won the fight.
 

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