Days 6, 7 of FA Thoughts

Mitch

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Defections:

OLB/DE Alex Okafor---the Cardinals said they wanted to re-sign Okafor. Despite tearing a tricep, Okafor played through it and was used creatively inside and outside in Bettcher's 4 man rush. He recorded 3.5 sacks. However, Okafor signed a 1 year deal with the Saints with $1M guaranteed and a base salary of $935K, plus incentives that could earn him $1M more. Basically the deal is 1 year at $1.935M.

That salary does not seem all that prohibitive if the Cardinals truly wanted to re-sign Okafor, as they kept telling everyone. Perhaps the $1M in guaranteed money was the sticking point, seeing as Okafor was injury prone the last couple of years. Regardless, the reality is, the Cardinals really did not want him back.

Additions:

OLB Jarvis Jones---seemingly minutes after Okafor signed with the Saints, the Cardinals signed Jarvis Jones to a similar 1 year prove it deal. Okafor had more sacks in one year (8) than Jarvis (the #17 pick in the 2013 draft) had in 4 years at Pittsburgh (6). However, a fresh start in AZ without the burden of the 1st round expectations may be just what Jones needs. The Cardinals can use him on the edge from time to time in the base 34. Jones is an effective edge setter. Then they can move him around in their various blitz schemes in passing situations. Because Jones is a solid edge setter, the Cardinals can do what the Patriots did at times with Chandler Jones, which is to slide him down into the 5 technique---the spot currently vacated by Calais Campbell. Thus, adding Jones gives the defense added flexibility and hopefully will help the Cardinals on STs. The Rams were very interested in adding Jones to their new 34 defense, but the Cardinals kept him in town and sealed the deal. Now the Rams are zeroing in on Connor Barwin.

Perhaps James Bettcher, Tom Pratt and Bob Sanders can help Jarvis Jones improve as an edge rusher. However, it was curious that the Cardinals set their immediate sights on Jones with more prolific pass rushers like Marion Williams, Connor Barwin and Dwight Freeney available. Clearly, the Cardinals need to add a situational pass rusher either by adding another UFA or by drafting one.

Paycuts:

CB Justin Bethel---having just gotten Tyvon Branch to accept a paycut, the Cardinals did the same with Justin Bethel to create another $1.5M in cap room. In return for taking a $2M paycut, Bethel was able to void the last year of his contract and will become a UFA in 2018. What is somewhat surprising is why Bethel wouldn't just demand his release right now. The guy tried to play through a broken foot, was deemed a "failure in progress" as a CB by his head coach and now agrees to accept a paycut to stay another year in AZ. If Bethel's improved play the last two games as a nickel CB is an indication of how he responds to criticism, then his response to the latest humbling could be very impressive. After all, he is a 3 time Pro Bowl ST player and 2 time 1st team All-Pro STs ace. Plus, maybe this is the year he becomes a success in progress as a CB, especially now that he is healthy and able to compete in training camp.

The Cardinals have basically done an all-out assault on the secondary---they have let Tony Jefferson, Marcus Cooper and D.J. Swearinger sign elsewhere in FA and they have gotten Tyvon Branch and Justin Bethel to accept paycuts. The curious thing here is that the secondary, aside from the inconsistency at the RCB position was one of the strongest and most successful units on the under-achieving 2016 team. Jefferson led the team in tackles and was the best tackler on the team. Plus, he was vastly improved in coverage versus TEs. Swearinger was the first FS in ages to make WRs, TEs and RBs think twice about catching the ball over the middle---plus he even started making interceptions and getting his hands on a number of balls. Cooper led the team in interceptions with 4.

Adding SS Antoine Bethea for leadership and production was a good move, if Bethea can remain hungry and durable. But, what about RCB and FS? Those positions remain in total flux. Apparently, the Cardinals have been showing interest in CBs Brandon Carr, Morris Claiborne and Jerraud Powers. Adding Carr or Claiborne as the starting RCB could be a boon. Then, what about FS? Some are speculating that Tyvon Branch will start there, but Branch is not physical enough or rangy enough to be a starter. Nickel FS, maybe. Branch was signed to be a nickel CB on tall WRs and TEs. Mathieu has insisted he is not a FS and Bethea, like Mathieu, thrives in the box. Maybe they coaches are thinking that Bethea can be the FS? Again, does that really suit his game? He can handle the run support and physical job of FS...but can he be a factor in deep to intermediate coverage? Can he be an effective defender in space?
 
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Lagerfilled

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Regardless, the reality is, the Cardinals really did not want him back.


I agree with pretty much everything Mitch except for the notion that BASK didn't want Okafor back. They wanted to retain all of their own FAs save maybe Minter, but at THEIR price.

The only one I'm still smarting about is Swearinger because we could have easily paid what Washington did and I liked him at FS as the ultimate tone setter. Unfortunately DJ was a poor culture fit.

I suspect we will draft a rangy FS on day two and they will start quickly. Who do you like? Any evals / analysis on the top ~5 Free Safeties after Adams (more SS) and Hooker in Rd 1?
 
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Mitch

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I hope Drew Stanton is the next guy on the radar. We need an upgrade.

Yes, on Stanton. Add Carson Palmer to the the paycut pool. There is no way he warrants the #2 highest 2017 cap figure in the NFL.
 
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Mitch

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I agree with pretty much everything Mitch except for the notion that BASK didn't want Okafor back. They wanted to retain all of their own FAs save maybe Minter, but at THEIR price.

The only one I'm still smarting about is Swearinger because we could have easily paid what Washington did and I liked him at FS as the ultimate tone setter. Unfortunately DJ was a poor culture fit.

I suspect we will draft a rangy FS on day two and they will start quickly. Who do you like? Any evals / analysis on the top ~5 Free Safeties after Adams (more SS) and Hooker in Rd 1?

OK---but the Cardinals price on Okafor must have been less than $1.935M with $1M guaranteed---which is basically what they are giving Jarvis Jones, who thus far has not proven to be the kind of pass rusher that Okafor is.

Swearinger's price was very doable and fair, imo. Again, it wasn't the Cardinals' price, but where does this leave the team at FS?

Like you said, it looks like the Cardinals will be drafting a FS. Hooker is the prize FS in this draft---but to get him they are going to have to give up the #77 pick to move up. If the Cardinals can address the CB position in FA---then moving up for Hooker would be a good move, imo. Hooker is that special.

Adams is a pure box safety and not a good option in centerfield. Jabrill Peppers might be an interchangeable FS, but is on the small side for a FS.

In round 2...Budda Baker of Washington or Marcus Williams of Utah would be good choices. Baker snuffs everything out but lacks ideal size (Ed Reed), while Williams is speedy, ball hawkish and fluid, but not the kind of run forcer that Baker is.

In round 3...John Johnson of Boston College or Josh Jones of NC St. would be good choices. Both have size, range and physical styles.

In Round 4...Lorenzo Jerome of St. Francis has off-the-charts instincts and anticipation, but he lacks prototypical size and speed.
 
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Mitch

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I thought that Okafor signed with the Saints because they offered a much better shot at him becoming a starter? I could be way off on that.

Right on, NM. That's true. But did they pay him starter's money? Not even close. Could the Cardinals have easily matched their offer? For sure, because the salary is right in line with what you pay a situational rusher. Heck, Dwight Freeney has played the last two years on similar deals.
 

TJ

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Yes, on Stanton. Add Carson Palmer to the the paycut pool. There is no way he warrants the #2 highest 2017 cap figure in the NFL.

He shouldn't be the #2 paid QB, but what leverage does the team have to negotiate a pay cut with him?
 

TJ

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Right on, NM. That's true. But did they pay him starter's money? Not even close. Could the Cardinals have easily matched their offer? For sure, because the salary is right in line with what you pay a situational rusher. Heck, Dwight Freeney has played the last two years on similar deals.

IMO, Okafor is looking at his next contract. If he's a starter for NO playing 50 snaps/game, he has a better opportunity of getting 7-8 sacks, something he is capable of doing; and that would assuredly get him a contract in 2008 with $15-25mil guaranteed. The same can't be said for Arizona if he's only playing 15-20 snaps and wasted time as a ST player.
 
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Mitch

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I would take any of our astute bloggers here at ASFN and want them ahead of Josh Weinfuss as ESPN's AZ Cardinals' beat writer. Weinfuss means well, but his analyses lack the kind of depth and keen football understanding that we have become accustomed to at ASFN.

Here, he is basically giving the Cardinals a B because they signed Chandler Jones to a long-term deal. Then, of all the UFAs on the market, he picks WR Cordarrelle Patterson as the player the Cardinals could have used most, especially to fill the void of Michael Floyd's departure.
 
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Mitch

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IMO, Okafor is looking at his next contract. If he's a starter for NO playing 50 snaps/game, he has a better opportunity of getting 7-8 sacks, something he is capable of doing; and that would assuredly get him a contract in 2008 with $15-25mil guaranteed. The same can't be said for Arizona if he's only playing 15-20 snaps and wasted time as a ST player.

Bingo.

But, Okafor as a mainstay in the nickel (inside and outside on the 4 man rush) was going to get 60+% of the snaps anyway, and have the advantage of single blockers being surrounded by Golden and Jones.
 
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Mitch

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Mel Kiper's updated top 15:

  1. Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett
  2. Alabama defensive end Jonathan Allen
  3. Stanford defensive end Solomon Thomas
  4. Ohio State cornerback Marshon Lattimore
  5. Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster
  6. LSU safety Jamal Adams
  7. LSU running back Leonard Fournette
  8. Michigan defensive end Taco Charlton
  9. Florida State running back Dalvin Cook
  10. Alabama tight end O.J. Howard
  11. UCLA defensive end Takkarist McKinley
  12. Ohio State safety Malik Hooker
  13. Temple linebacker Haason Reddick
  14. Washington wide receiver John Ross
  15. Stanford running back Christian McCaffrey
 

redheat

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We have a very high priced PP and HB in the secondary. They would rather not add a 3rd and will continue to fill those spots with smart reliable vets, 1 year rentals and draft pics.

On defense we have 2 DB's and 1 OLB star players. Should focus on DL.
 

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Mel Kiper's updated top 15:

  1. Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett
  2. Alabama defensive end Jonathan Allen
  3. Stanford defensive end Solomon Thomas
  4. Ohio State cornerback Marshon Lattimore
  5. Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster
  6. LSU safety Jamal Adams
  7. LSU running back Leonard Fournette
  8. Michigan defensive end Taco Charlton
  9. Florida State running back Dalvin Cook
  10. Alabama tight end O.J. Howard
  11. UCLA defensive end Takkarist McKinley
  12. Ohio State safety Malik Hooker
  13. Temple linebacker Haason Reddick
  14. Washington wide receiver John Ross
  15. Stanford running back Christian McCaffrey

If we go DL at #13, I'd LOVE Solomon Thomas to fill Calais' spot. Next would be Jonathan Allen.

If we go S, I LOVE Hooker, but concerned about health / reliability. Adams would be my 2nd choice.

If we go ILB, I'm torn! LOVE both Foster and Reddick. I think Reddick is more versatile and bigger. Foster next to Buc scares me.

If we go WR, I LOVE Corey Davis. To me, Williams is just meh.

If we go OG, I LOVE Lamp!!! Nuff said.

If we go QB at 13, I'll vomit! But I do like Mahomes and Watson. Just not that early.

I don't like any of the CBs early, only if we trade down.
 
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TheCardFan

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Mel Kiper's updated top 15:

  1. Texas A&M defensive end Myles Garrett
  2. Alabama defensive end Jonathan Allen (undersized...poor combine numbers)
  3. Stanford defensive end Solomon Thomas (scheme fit)
  4. Ohio State cornerback Marshon Lattimore (1 year of production...injury history)
  5. Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster (undersized...attitude problem?)
  6. LSU safety Jamal Adams
  7. LSU running back Leonard Fournette
  8. Michigan defensive end Taco Charlton
  9. Florida State running back Dalvin Cook
  10. Alabama tight end O.J. Howard
  11. UCLA defensive end Takkarist McKinley (great motor but lacks prototypical size and limited polish)
  12. Ohio State safety Malik Hooker (1 year of production)
  13. Temple linebacker Haason Reddick (DE to LB (outside or inside)...still a projection)
  14. Washington wide receiver John Ross (undersized and significant injuries to both knees and shoulder)
  15. Stanford running back Christian McCaffrey (explosive and productive but more of a specialist)

Interesting. No QB's, OT's, or WR's, which could push some of those guys down to 13.

Jabril Peppers is another guy that could be drafted before us or for that matter...late rd 1.

Lots of talent on that list but also lots of risk (see red comments above).

I would love to see Takk McKinley as an ILB with his size and speed. Not sure if he has the instincts (projection) but he played MLB on 3rd and long this year at UCLA. I know he can create pressure from that spot. He reminds me of a big Baltimore Raven ILB or maybe Brian Urlacher (size and athleticism). Too high (13) to take him as a project.
 

RugbyMuffin

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I thought that Okafor signed with the Saints because they offered a much better shot at him becoming a starter? I could be way off on that.

That is what I heard.

That being said, Okafor has had lots of opportunity to be the starter here in Arizona, and failed to get the job done time after time. Didn't want to see Okafor go, but the more I read about Jarvis Jones, the more I see a young version of Matt Shaughnessey who when he was younger, and healthy was a key role player for the Cardinals defense. If Jones can set the edge like Shaughnessey used to that is going to help the Cardinals and actually improve the defense if you ask me.
 

RugbyMuffin

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IMO, Okafor is looking at his next contract. If he's a starter for NO playing 50 snaps/game, he has a better opportunity of getting 7-8 sacks, something he is capable of doing; and that would assuredly get him a contract in 2008 with $15-25mil guaranteed. The same can't be said for Arizona if he's only playing 15-20 snaps and wasted time as a ST player.


We will see. There are two pass rushers in New Orleans already between Cameron Jordan, and Kau Lo'ifudlaida (sp?). Okafor is no lock to start there and has failed to do what it takes to get that starting job in AZ.

We will see.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Adding SS Antoine Bethea for leadership and production was a good move, if Bethea can remain hungry and durable. But, what about RCB and FS? Those positions remain in total flux. Apparently, the Cardinals have been showing interest in CBs Brandon Carr, Morris Claiborne and Jerraud Powers. Adding Carr or Claiborne as the starting RCB could be a boon. Then, what about FS? Some are speculating that Tyvon Branch will start there, but Branch is not physical enough or rangy enough to be a starter. Nickel FS, maybe. Branch was signed to be a nickel CB on tall WRs and TEs. Mathieu has insisted he is not a FS and Bethea, like Mathieu, thrives in the box. Maybe they coaches are thinking that Bethea can be the FS? Again, does that really suit his game? He can handle the run support and physical job of FS...but can he be a factor in deep to intermediate coverage? Can he be an effective defender in space?

Phew.......to be honest, I think I would rather have Jerraud Powers back besides Carr, and especially Claiborne. That being said, maybe the Claiborne from LSU finds new life being with his alumni in AZ ? And lets be honest, especially me with myself, we need a cornerback so any of the three will have to do, regardless.

As for the FS question, I have finally gotten to doing some draft analysis. HOLY MOLY, there are A LOT of good cornerbacks and safeties that will fit into what the Cardinals like to do.

The Cardinals could easily get a safety in the 3rd or 4th round that can play a significant role at some point next year. Yes, I will put out names and whatnot at some point, just not here.
 

Chopper0080

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A couple thoughts...

1-The problem with have a team with depth is that you have talented players in limited roles. Those players eventually will want larger roles and corresponding money. If you aren't able to to provide both, then they are likely to find those elsewhere. That is just the reality of have a deep team. For me, that applies to Okafor, Watford, and Jefferson.

2-Regarding the #2 CB spot. Marcus Cooper was the 101 rated CB out of 112 per PFF. Whether you agree with the rankings, it still highlights that Cooper's level of play last year was completely replaceable. Brandon Carr - Mo Clairborne - Justin Bethel - Brandon Williams - Draft pick, it shouldn't be difficutl to replace Cooper's level of production. Of the FA options, I like Carr over Claiborne due to Claiborne's inability to be healthy in his pro career.
 
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Right on, NM. That's true. But did they pay him starter's money? Not even close. Could the Cardinals have easily matched their offer? For sure, because the salary is right in line with what you pay a situational rusher. Heck, Dwight Freeney has played the last two years on similar deals.
FWIW: Reports from local reporters stated that the Cardinals did match the New Orleans offer. Equal money, I think it came down to Okafor believing that his opportunities would be better with New Orleans.
 

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I hope Drew Stanton is the next guy on the radar. We need an upgrade.

+1

I would love to see Josh McCown come back and be the backup. The guy is seasoned, doesn't overthrow EVERY receiver like Stanton, and is a GREAT presence in the locker room. Would also be great for mentoring a QBoF.

And, he threw Fitz his first NFL competition in 2004. How cool would it be if he could also throw him his last in 2017?
 
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Add Carson Palmer to the the paycut pool. There is no way he warrants the #2 highest 2017 cap figure in the NFL.
Whole-heartedly agree, Mitch. I appreciate everything Carson Palmer has brought to the Cardinals, and I think you probably do also. However, IF Palmer is serious about pursuing the ring, he should be coming to the Cardinals and offering a pay cut!

The team has made several moves to clear some cap space, obviously with something in mind. Even prior to his becoming a Cardinal, Palmer remarked that he was well off enough financially to leave the NFL. He has made a GREAT deal more money since making that statement. Step up, Carson!
 

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We will see. There are two pass rushers in New Orleans already between Cameron Jordan, and Kau Lo'ifudlaida (sp?). Okafor is no lock to start there and has failed to do what it takes to get that starting job in AZ.

We will see.

Edebali maybe? Not sure who you're referring to but they also have Hau'oli Kikaha
 
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