Day 3 of FA Thoughts

Mitch

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Defections:

G/T Earl Watford---the Cardinals drafted Cole Toner last year with the notion of him becoming the next Swiss Army sub at G, T and perhaps even C. Watford now gets his chance to be a full-time starter in JAX. Some say he didn't make the most of his opportunities in AZ, but I thought he played well as the starting RT when Bobby Massie was suspended, and, let's face it, during Watford's tenure the Cardinals kept signing veteran guards as stop-gap starters, like Ted Larsen and Evan Mathis. One has to wonder what would have happened if the Cardinals had committed the RG spot to Watford and built him up. Instead, they were content to keep him as the utility man, which is ok for a 4th round draft pick, but not ideal.

TE Darren Fells---last summer Carson Palmer was raving about Fells, how trimmer and faster he looked and how he was gobbling up everything thrown his way in practice. Hopes were high. However, Fells never really got on track as a receiver this year due to a greater focus on the running game, with David Johnson moving to the slot in passing g situations and with Fells battling injuries. Fells is over 30 now, but he's only played 3 years and I think he has 2-3 good years ahead of him. It is surprising that with no logical #2 TE currently on the roster that the Cardinals were loath to re-sign Fells for $1.5M and that they over-spent on Jermaine Gresham at $6M a year when all Martellus Bennett could get was $7M a year. Clearly the Cardinals misjudged the TE market.

CB Marcus Cooper---his defection was a fait accompli from the get-go, with BA insisting that the team "wants his back" (oh, sure) but that "Coop is going to get a big payday." This is exactly how the Cardinals operate when they really do not want a player back. In order to appease the fans and build up the player's marketability, they talk the player up and insist that they want him back. Let's be real. The Cardinals never wanted Coop back---which is fine. And thus he becomes the second 7th round trade one-year rental they have made in the last three years (Matt Barkley).

Additions:

None.

Day 3 Grade: F

When one looks at what the Patriots have accomplished in recent days---adding CB Stephon Gilmore ( a FA target many of us were hoping for), WR Brandin Cooks (who fits BA's offense to a tee and is clearly superior to Brown and Nelson), TE Dwayne Allen (again, who fits BA's offense to a tee because of his prolific blocking and red zone ability), 34DE Lawrence Guy (who was one of my top FA targets to ease the loss of Calais Campbell) and DE/OLB Kony Ealy (who would give the Cardinals a much needed 3rd edge rusher)---one is quickly reminded why the Patriots keep spiraling upward, while the Cardinals keep spinning their wheels.

One might say, but wait, the Patriots have much more cap space than the Cardinals. Yep, that's true. But, could the Cardinals have afforded every one of the moves the Patriots have made? Easily. They could have done what the Pats did with Gilmore in giving him his signing bonus up front and spread it out over the length of the contract---Gilmore is scheduled to count $8M on the cap this year. Cooks is on the 4th year of his 5 year rookie deal and is scheduled to count $1.6M on this year's cap. Dwayne Allen: $5 M. Lawrence Guy: $3M. Kony Ealy: $900K.

Total 2017 Cap Hit: $18.4M.

The Cardinals currently have $20.5M in cap space even after signing Bethea, Dawson and Dansby.

Now---we still do not have a clue as to what is going on behind the scenes with Steve Keim and what the total plan is. Maybe Keim has been trying to spring some deals. But, it is very difficult to watch teams improve their roster while the Cardinals sit tight...especially with all the needs (RG, WR, DE, OLB, CB, FS, PR, KR) that thus far remain unfilled.
 
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GuernseyCard

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Bennett (30) - 1 Pro Bowl
135 (g) 403 receptions - 37 TDs

Gresham (28) - 2 Pro Bowl
105 (g) 335 receptions - 29 TDs

Baring injury there is good reason to believe Gresham will have as good or better numbers than Bennett at age 30 and for less cost. Hardly a misread of the T-end market... IMO.
 
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Mitch

Mitch

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Bennett (30) - 1 Pro Bowl
135 (g) 403 receptions - 37 TDs

Gresham (28) - 2 Pro Bowl
105 (g) 335 receptions - 29 TDs

Baring injury there is good reason to believe Gresham will have as good or better numbers than Bennett at age 30 and for less cost. Hardly a misread of the T-end market... IMO.

Bennett is by far the superior blocker and red zone receiver. It's really not even close.

Dwayne Allen > Gresham as a blocker...and remember who our RB is.
 

GuernseyCard

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Bennett is by far the superior blocker and red zone receiver. It's really not even close.

Dwayne Allen > Gresham as a blocker...and remember who our RB is.

It's a wonder why Bennett can't seem to find a home. No knock on his talents and he turned a season in N-E sans Gronk into a lucrative deal. Good on him. But, I'm more than happy with the Cards' commitment to a younger Gresham.
 

jbjarko

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What I don't get is, how in one moment we can be so much like the Patriots of years past; letting big contracts go, knowing what each player is worth.

On the other hand, when the Patriots go the non Patriot way and went crazy this FA period, we can't keep up. I don't know which train of thought I need to follow. I for one am happy with what we have done, and haven't done so far.
 

RugbyMuffin

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I have nothing really to say against your grade for the day, or analysis. Just respect your opinion, it is tough to really argue a day by day analysis, and thank you for writing them, I have read them each day.

As for your needs, I would say you should maybe specify those needs:

RG:
I do not think the Cardinals think this is a dire need, to be honest. Between Wetzel, Boehm, and Toner, I think that could work. Whomever it ends up being, I think the right side with Veldheer moving there will be better than last year.
- John Jerry
- Tim Lelito
- Will Beatty <-- Cardinals kicked his tires last year, maybe they talked to him about guard?


WR:
The need is to replace Michael Floyd's role, big receiver to play on the outside. Yet, with what the Cardinals have at reciever this is not what I would say is a "true #2".
-Andre Holmes
-Kamar Aiken
-Vincent Jackson <-- has one year prove it deal written all over him.

, but to be honest, I think this is a position that the Cardinals will address in the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft.

DE:
Don't see the "need". Yes, Campbell left, the plan is for the 7 guys we have to be able to handle the line.

OLB:
Right now, with the cap space the Cardinals have, I think this is what is "going on behind the scenes" as you put it. I know the Seahawks are our rivals, but something they always did that I like, and something the Patriots always do that I like, and stock pile pass rushers.

Alex Okafor is that 3rd pass rusher that I think is more key to the Cardinals defense then a lot of things, that this team has see leave. Okafor is not a "key" piece, but word is the Cardinals were trying to re-sign him and Marcus Cooper. I think Cooper had a ceiling for how much the Cardinals though he was worth, but I think the Cardinals are willing to spend a little more for Alex Okafor. The trick to Okafor is to re-sign him to a competitive deal but do so in a way that he can still be trade-able. That is the smartest thing that the Patriots do and the Seahawks do not. The Pats stock pile pass rushers but find ways to trade them later, and get draft picks back.

Yet, this is not a "dire" need. Chandler Jones, and Marcus Golden are the starting tandem. If Okafor comes back, then the Cardinals will utilize the formation where Jones goes inside Okafor comes in on the edge and that in essence would be the replacement for Campbell's pass rushing ability. As for how would be the 4th down lineman in that formation? I dunno, Nkimdiche, or the hype machine Olson Pierre ?

BTW, If the Cardinals do NOT get Okafor back, there is a slew of veteran pass rushers they could try the old "1 year prove it deal with". Dwight Freeney, Mario Williams, Connor Barwin, Trent Cole, DeMarcus Ware, and Elvis Dumerville. Then there is also my head scratcher.....Datone Jones, what in the heck happened to that guy? That is a really good player to see if he gets humbled by a lack of interest out in free agency. The tools are there, but maybe it is a maturity thing ?

CB:
Ok, NOW we are talking about a need. I hope the Cardinals are not going to think they are going to find someone in the draft again.

- Patrick Robinson: After losing out on Marcus Cooper, I hope they are on the phone with this guy TODAY.
- Darius Butler: Long in the tooth, but knows Arians, and not only can he play CB, but has started to transition to free safety.
- Morris Claiborne: Maybe he finds some sort of bump in ability playing with his old LSU teammates?
- Jerraud Powers: The Cardinals tried to replace him and spent a season not doing so.
- Mike Jenkins: Was receiving praise for his work in last year's camp, age and injury may allow him to be an easy signing for camp.

FS:
Pretty sure this is what Antione Bethea and Tyvon Branch are on the roster for with Tyrann Mathieu playing his "monster role" or what have you. Its also the reason I put Darius Butler up in the cornerback list, since he could play both, and really have a fluid secondary out on the field, between Mathieu, Bucanon, Butler, and Bethea.

I do not see the need here, and it anything I see a drafted player coming in to round out the group.

PR/KR:
Arguable that this is a need, or if we do not already have a slew of players to do this on the roster.

Thus I would argue, that the positions the Cardinals 100% need to address right now are:

- Cornerback


The rest I would say the Cardinals could improve on, but I do not think it is dire:

- WR2
- TE2
- RG
- DE/OLB (Alex Okafor role)

*I also like that the Cardinals are talking to Chris Johnson for the backup running back spot.

Just my humble opinion of course. The Cardinals still have work to do, that I can agree on.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Your comparisons to the Patriots is becoming insufferable. You do realize the Patriots had a ton more cap room, right?


Well he is from the New England area, probably why he references them so much. Its the same reason I have more insight on the NYC and Philly teams.
 
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Mitch

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Your comparisons to the Patriots is becoming insufferable. You do realize the Patriots had a ton more cap room, right?

Krang---did you read my entire post? I mentioned how the Patriots have much more cap space---however, I outlined how the Cardinals could have made the same or similar moves cap wise.
 

PJ1

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Don't know what the entire plan is but up to this point the Cards do get an F. Our D could be very frustrating at times giving up big plays at the worst times. Well they are significantly worse now with TJ, DJ and CC gone. Cooper wasn't good but who is our second CB? Unless we have 9 picks in the first 3 rounds this all can't be addressed in the draft. As for the limited cap space? Who is responsible for a few players taking it all up? Not a happy fan right now.
 
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Mitch

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What I don't get is, how in one moment we can be so much like the Patriots of years past; letting big contracts go, knowing what each player is worth.

On the other hand, when the Patriots go the non Patriot way and went crazy this FA period, we can't keep up. I don't know which train of thought I need to follow. I for one am happy with what we have done, and haven't done so far.

Jbarko---the point is---the Patriots only spent on one big contract (CB Gilmore) and they structured the deal so that his 2017 cap hit is a mere $8M. The other moves they made were for bargain salaries. And all of the moves they made were ones the Cardinals could afford.

They added 5 starters for 2017 a cap hit of $18.4M.

Last i checked we need 5 starters: RG, WR, DE, CB, FS.

Branch is not a FS. He didn't start there last year for a reason. He was used as a nickel cover man. Mathieu is not a FS, and has said so himself. Bethea is an in the box SS.

Tell me---what team looks more "All In"?

And if you want other teams to compare to---how about the Detroit Lions? Coming off a playoff season, they have added:


RT Rick Wagner (5 years, $47.5 million)

RG T.J. Lang (3 years)

LB Paul Worrilow (1 year)

DT Akeem Spence (3 years, $9 million)

DE Cornelius Washington (2 years, $5.825 million)

CB D.J. Hayden (1 year, $3.75 million)

TE Darren Fells (1 year, $1.5 million)

KR Keshawn Martin

Even the normally stingy Packers have signed two more big targets for Aaron Rodgers in TEs Martellus Bennett and Lance Kendricks---and they already have TE Richard Rodgers (Mr. Hail Mary).

Again, what teams are "All In"?
 

RugbyMuffin

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Don't know what the entire plan is but up to this point the Cards do get an F. Our D could be very frustrating at times giving up big plays at the worst times. Well they are significantly worse now with TJ, DJ and CC gone. Cooper wasn't good but who is our second CB? Unless we have 9 picks in the first 3 rounds this all can't be addressed in the draft. As for the limited cap space? Who is rsponsible for a few players taking it all up? Not a happy fan right now.

.....last year's team gave up plays at the wrong time, and those three were on the field when it happened, not sure what you are getting at.

Not to mention you are complaining that the Cardinals do not sign anyone, and then complaining the Cardinals re-signed too many players in the same sentence. That is a catch-22, you are going to be unhappy regardless if you are thinking that way.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Again, what teams are "All In"?

The Cardinals.

Instead of getting rid of older veterans that are taking up a lot of cap space, they are going forward with them and giving this current roster and its core one more shot.

Bringing in 30+ veterans on 1 year deals, is telling that story of what the plan is. There is easily 14 million in cuts this team could make if it was not thinking Championship this year.

Bringing Carson Palmer back and Fitzgerald was the tell that this was a last gasp at a Lombardi.

JMHO.
 

JeffGollin

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A couple of quesion:

Rugby - No mention of SS?

Did Calais create a tailored role on our Front 3 (i.e. Tall sub-300 lb presence)? The closest guy to that on our roster is Mauro. Is there anyone we could draft who fits that profile? If so, do you think we might target him?
 
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Mitch

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.....last year's team gave up plays at the wrong time, and those three were on the field when it happened, not sure what you are getting at.

Not to mention you are complaining that the Cardinals do not sign anyone, and then complaining the Cardinals re-signed too many players in the same sentence. That is a catch-22, you are going to be unhappy regardless if you are thinking that way.


Rugby---from my perspective and perhaps this is what PJ1 is getting at...we just lost our best interior defensive lineman, our starting #2 CB, our starting SS and our starting FS (3 of whom were the best three tacklers on a team that did not tackle well).

In response, the Cardinals have signed two defensive players in their 30s who are no longer in their prime. Bethea is a good tackler, but he's iffy in coverage. Dansby is good in coverage, but he's not a stuff the hole, downhill tackler and never has been and at SILB that's part of the job description. Plus, without Campbell, those holes might be getting bigger to fill.
 

JeffGollin

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Rugby---from my perspective and perhaps this is what PJ1 is getting at...we just lost our best interior defensive lineman, our starting #2 CB, our starting SS and our starting FS (3 of whom were the best three tacklers on a team that did not tackle well).

In response, the Cardinals have signed two defensive players in their 30s who are no longer in their prime. Bethea is a good tackler, but he's iffy in coverage. Dansby is good in coverage, but he's not a stuff the hole, downhill tackler and never has been and at SILB that's part of the job description. Plus, without Campbell, those holes might be getting bigger to fill.
OK. Let's play: "What would you do to get under the cap if we kept Calais, TJ and Swear? (Buehler)?
 
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Mitch

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I have nothing really to say against your grade for the day, or analysis. Just respect your opinion, it is tough to really argue a day by day analysis, and thank you for writing them, I have read them each day.

As for your needs, I would say you should maybe specify those needs:

RG:
I do not think the Cardinals think this is a dire need, to be honest. Between Wetzel, Boehm, and Toner, I think that could work. Whomever it ends up being, I think the right side with Veldheer moving there will be better than last year.
- John Jerry
- Tim Lelito
- Will Beatty <-- Cardinals kicked his tires last year, maybe they talked to him about guard?


WR:
The need is to replace Michael Floyd's role, big receiver to play on the outside. Yet, with what the Cardinals have at reciever this is not what I would say is a "true #2".
-Andre Holmes
-Kamar Aiken
-Vincent Jackson <-- has one year prove it deal written all over him.

, but to be honest, I think this is a position that the Cardinals will address in the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft.

DE:
Don't see the "need". Yes, Campbell left, the plan is for the 7 guys we have to be able to handle the line.

OLB:
Right now, with the cap space the Cardinals have, I think this is what is "going on behind the scenes" as you put it. I know the Seahawks are our rivals, but something they always did that I like, and something the Patriots always do that I like, and stock pile pass rushers.

Alex Okafor is that 3rd pass rusher that I think is more key to the Cardinals defense then a lot of things, that this team has see leave. Okafor is not a "key" piece, but word is the Cardinals were trying to re-sign him and Marcus Cooper. I think Cooper had a ceiling for how much the Cardinals though he was worth, but I think the Cardinals are willing to spend a little more for Alex Okafor. The trick to Okafor is to re-sign him to a competitive deal but do so in a way that he can still be trade-able. That is the smartest thing that the Patriots do and the Seahawks do not. The Pats stock pile pass rushers but find ways to trade them later, and get draft picks back.

Yet, this is not a "dire" need. Chandler Jones, and Marcus Golden are the starting tandem. If Okafor comes back, then the Cardinals will utilize the formation where Jones goes inside Okafor comes in on the edge and that in essence would be the replacement for Campbell's pass rushing ability. As for how would be the 4th down lineman in that formation? I dunno, Nkimdiche, or the hype machine Olson Pierre ?

BTW, If the Cardinals do NOT get Okafor back, there is a slew of veteran pass rushers they could try the old "1 year prove it deal with". Dwight Freeney, Mario Williams, Connor Barwin, Trent Cole, DeMarcus Ware, and Elvis Dumerville. Then there is also my head scratcher.....Datone Jones, what in the heck happened to that guy? That is a really good player to see if he gets humbled by a lack of interest out in free agency. The tools are there, but maybe it is a maturity thing ?

CB:
Ok, NOW we are talking about a need. I hope the Cardinals are not going to think they are going to find someone in the draft again.

- Patrick Robinson: After losing out on Marcus Cooper, I hope they are on the phone with this guy TODAY.
- Darius Butler: Long in the tooth, but knows Arians, and not only can he play CB, but has started to transition to free safety.
- Morris Claiborne: Maybe he finds some sort of bump in ability playing with his old LSU teammates?
- Jerraud Powers: The Cardinals tried to replace him and spent a season not doing so.
- Mike Jenkins: Was receiving praise for his work in last year's camp, age and injury may allow him to be an easy signing for camp.

FS:
Pretty sure this is what Antione Bethea and Tyvon Branch are on the roster for with Tyrann Mathieu playing his "monster role" or what have you. Its also the reason I put Darius Butler up in the cornerback list, since he could play both, and really have a fluid secondary out on the field, between Mathieu, Bucanon, Butler, and Bethea.

I do not see the need here, and it anything I see a drafted player coming in to round out the group.

PR/KR:
Arguable that this is a need, or if we do not already have a slew of players to do this on the roster.

Thus I would argue, that the positions the Cardinals 100% need to address right now are:

- Cornerback


The rest I would say the Cardinals could improve on, but I do not think it is dire:

- WR2
- TE2
- RG
- DE/OLB (Alex Okafor role)

*I also like that the Cardinals are talking to Chris Johnson for the backup running back spot.

Just my humble opinion of course. The Cardinals still have work to do, that I can agree on.

I always love reading your takes and I agree with much of what you wrote and i think you are 100% correct that some of the positions will be addressed in the draft.

I am not as high on Okafor as you are, but if he's healthy, he's certainly a better option than Kareem Martin.

Also, FS is a huge need. We need a legitimate starter there. Someone with range/anticpation in pass coverage (which we haven't had since Rashad Johnson in his prime) and someone who can storm the alley and finish off tackles the way Swearinger did (which Johnson could not do).

Rush DT...any of the 7 a good bet? Not 1 of them have proven they can do it.
 
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Krangodnzr

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The Cardinals are looking for bargains and are trying to fix their cap. It's obvious what they are doing.
 

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Your comparisons to the Patriots is becoming insufferable. You do realize the Patriots had a ton more cap room, right?
...and the reason they had that cap room, is years and years of letting players walk a year or two early...gaining those comp picks...parlaying the comp picks into higher picks and players via trades...rarely splurging in free agency (this year's Gillmore siging is a rarity).

The Cards are trying to morph into this line of thinking, but it takes time...and honestly contracts like Palmer and Fitz keep them from being fully dedicated. Once they retire, I have no doubt that this will be the full future of the Cards f/o.



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Mitch

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...and the reason they had that cap room, is years and years of letting players walk a year or two early...gaining those comp picks...parlaying the comp picks into higher picks and players via trades...rarely splurging in free agency (this year's Gillmore siging is a rarity).

The Cards are trying to morph into this line of thinking, but it takes time...and honestly contracts like Palmer and Fitz keep them from being fully dedicated. Once they retire, I have no doubt that this will be the full future of the Cards f/o.



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I agree with you, masterphomeg. But, they still have $20M in cap space this year and after 3 days of FA, most of the best UFAs are already signed. One would think that LF's and CP's last hurrah would make the Cardinals act with a little more urgency and direction.
 
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Goldfield

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If the Patriots have a ton of cap space why does Brady take a pay cut? Seems they have the room to pay him full value. I bet he gets his money from the somehow...
 

Cheesebeef

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I agree with you, masterphomeg. But, they still have $20M in cap space this year and after 3 days of FA, most of the best UFAs are already signed. One would think that LF's and CP's last hurrah would make the Cardinals act with a little more urgency and direction.

Yeah... FA has been confusing to say the least.
 

BW52

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A couple of quesion:

Rugby - No mention of SS?

Did Calais create a tailored role on our Front 3 (i.e. Tall sub-300 lb presence)? The closest guy to that on our roster is Mauro. Is there anyone we could draft who fits that profile? If so, do you think we might target him?[/QUO



Michigan state DT-DE Malik McDowell 6`6 295 top 10 rated dlineman
Michigan DT-DE Taco Charlton 6`6 277 top 10 rated dlineman
rated by NFL.COM draft.
 

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