Dan Arnold to Carolina

[PJ1]

Why did we sign Watt and Green with all the holes we have?...How do you win now with this many positions in a state of flux? Not getting it.

 

[daves]

Fells should have never been let go.

Well it's not exactly as if he lit the world on fire after he left...

First the Lions paid him $1M for 17 catches and 177 yards in 16 games in 2017.

Then the Browns paid him $5M in the first year of a 3-year deal and he racked up all of 117 yards on 12 catches in 16 games in 2018 before being cut and leaving the Browns with a bunch of dead money on their cap.

Finally in 2019 he earned his $1.5M contract with the Texans by scoring 7 TDs on 34 catches for 341 yards. That earned him a 2-year deal with another $4M in 2020, though he regressed to 4 TDs on 21 catches and 312 yards before being cut and not seeing the 2nd year of that contract.

I liked the guy, and the guys who replaced him didn't exactly light the world on fire either, but i don't think we need to lament the fact that the Cardinals didn't outbid the competition to keep him all these years.

And we certainly shouldn't be pining too hard for his return!

...dave

 

[Solar7]

Why did we sign Watt and Green with all the holes we have?...How do you win now with this many positions in a state of flux? Not getting it.

I'm completely at a loss too. This is obviously something we'll likely never know, but I've got to assume that somewhere down the line here, something Keim was counting on didn't come to fruition. To be clear, these are just wild speculative things, not something I have any reason to believe happened, but maybe somewhere along the line he:

Didn't get sign-off from CJ's team on an extension to free up space
Didn't get sign-off from MB to burn further assets or continue to kick cap down the road
Got rebuffed by a younger WR choice
Expected the FA corner market to offer up someone different
Was counting on getting Linsley and being able to make up for deficiencies otherwise with three draft picks

 

[Shane]

I can’t believe there’s 102 posts about the loss of Dan Arnold LOL

 

[juza76]

I can’t believe there’s 102 posts about the loss of Dan Arnold LOL

more then complaining the loss of the Dan Arnold is about what we currently have (Maxx Williams /Ian Bunting) and the list of free agents available which is putrid
Is always a good thing to change a player with a better one, that's not the case

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Sigh, I don’t know how many times we need to say it for the hyperbole to stop. Not freaking out. Just think it’s one in a long line of bad FA decisions. I’ll be interested to see what TE we trot out there that will have 31/435/14 per catch.

Not signing Arnold to 2 years/6mill is not a bad FA decision. Hell, I didn't even know he was a FA. It seems like I remember more of him messing up than being a factor in games.

I will say, Williams IS the kind of guy that can be replaced by a late round draft pick. Especially the way the Cards use their TE.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Now we have in the roster 2 tigh ends

A blocker tigh end with limited athleticism and some injury concerns
And a guy i have never heard before
Ian Bunting

Had your heard of Dan Arnold prior to last year?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Keim can fix this is all in one fell swoop. Just bring back Troy Niklas .

 

[az jam]

I’m not worried about the TEs as they can get a veteran on a one year vet minimum deal and also draft one in the 5th or 7th round. KK’s offense doesn’t really use a TE that much except for blocking. However CB is another story, that is a major need.

 

[QuebecCard]

I’m not worried about the TEs as they can get a veteran on a one year vet minimum deal and also draft one in the 5th or 7th round. KK’s offense doesn’t really use a TE that much except for blocking. However CB is another story, that is a major need.

Bring back Larry and have him run the T-end routes.

 

[Stout]

I’m not worried about the TEs as they can get a veteran on a one year vet minimum deal and also draft one in the 5th or 7th round. KK’s offense doesn’t really use a TE that much except for blocking. However CB is another story, that is a major need.

The problem with this logic, which many posters are using, is that we have, what, a 1st, a 2nd, a 5th, and a 7th round pick? And we have like 6 or 7 GAPING roster holes? And you shouldn't try to fill so many roster holes though the draft?

I've heard stuff like no sweat, we'll get a late-round RB. And a late-round WR. And a late-round TE. And a late-round starting CB (AFTER a high-draft pick CB). And a late-round IOL because the draft is flush with them. And, and, and...that's 5 or 6 late-rounders this board is counting on for less than half that many late-round picks we actually have. Even if we HAD those picks, we'd be counting on ALL of those picks to HIT in order to have any effective answers at crucial positions.

Yeah, a terrible idea to build the current year's team, deferring all those needs to the draft.

 

[juza76]

Had your heard of Dan Arnold prior to last year?

We have to look forward not back my friend

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Had your heard of Dan Arnold prior to last year?

If you watched games you saw Arnold make some plays at the end of the prior season when we picked him up. This board certainly knew who he was coming into the year. I too have zero idea who Ian bunting is.

 

[Solar7]

The problem with this logic, which many posters are using, is that we have, what, a 1st, a 2nd, a 5th, and a 7th round pick? And we have like 6 or 7 GAPING roster holes? And you shouldn't try to fill so many roster holes though the draft?

I've heard stuff like no sweat, we'll get a late-round RB. And a late-round WR. And a late-round TE. And a late-round starting CB (AFTER a high-draft pick CB). And a late-round IOL because the draft is flush with them. And, and, and...that's 5 or 6 late-rounders this board is counting on for less than half that many late-round picks we actually have. Even if we HAD those picks, we'd be counting on ALL of those picks to HIT in order to have any effective answers at crucial positions.

Yeah, a terrible idea to build the current year's team, deferring all those needs to the draft.

Amen. I know we're just a fan board, so it's not fair to hold people to the expectation of having our roster/cap space/picks memorized, but how so many people are glossing over the big picture is beyond me.

Somehow this team is less complete than last year, and we have less available money and picks available to fix it than we did at this time last year.

 

[slanidrac16]

When you have the time look up the stats for Greg Olsen. Four years with the Bears. They let him walk away after a season of 42 catches, 404 yards and 4 td’s. He was 26 years old. Remember the career he went on to have.
I’m not saying Arnold is the next Greg Olsen. What I am saying is I don’t like claiming a young guy off waivers, watching him grow, giving us glowing reviews of what we can expect to see from him, a qb who really seem to like him and nothing currently left at the position.

Now apparently the Panthers thinks he’s worth it. Was it that Keim didn’t think he was worth it or was it because he has painted us into a corner with his wonderful cap management and we just couldn’t afford him. We will never know.

 

[football karma]

Arnold is a loss

not a probowler, or even a key piece, but still a contributor who I would rather have him on the team than not

there are players out there than can fill his role, but until Keim does, its a hole

And we have like 6 or 7 GAPING roster holes?

this feels like hyperbole

CB (2), TE, fill in RB?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

We have to look forward not back my friend

I was referring to your comment, TE's this year are Williams and some guy you've never heard of. You could have said the same thing about Arnold last year being the guy you never heard of. Maybe the guy we've never heard of this year will be like Arnold and contribute.

 

[juza76]

I was referring to your comment, TE's this year are Williams and some guy you've never heard of. You could have said the same thing about Arnold last year being the guy you never heard of. Maybe the guy we've never heard of this year will be like Arnold and contribute.

No, he had poor numbers even in college, bounced from a team to another one
Arnold showed something with the saints at least and the few snaps he played with the Cardinals the year before

 

[Solar7]

I was referring to your comment, TE's this year are Williams and some guy you've never heard of. You could have said the same thing about Arnold last year being the guy you never heard of. Maybe the guy we've never heard of this year will be like Arnold and contribute.

Arnold flashed at the end of 2019 for us after being picked up and forced into action late in the season.

Again, not calling the guy special, but as a TE2 or TE3, it was enough. Hell, I even used a fantasy draft pick on him before he played a 2020 snap.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Arnold flashed at the end of 2019 for us after being picked up and forced into action late in the season.

Again, not calling the guy special, but as a TE2 or TE3, it was enough. Hell, I even used a fantasy draft pick on him before he played a 2020 snap.

It’s just more of the old “if he left us he sucked” mindset.

 

[QuebecCard]

Amen. I know we're just a fan board, so it's not fair to hold people to the expectation of having our roster/cap space/picks memorized, but how so many people are glossing over the big picture is beyond me.

Somehow this team is less complete than last year, and we have less available money and picks available to fix it than we did at this time last year.

Glossing over YOUR "big picture", more precisely.

I see JJ Watt's addition on "D"; the return CJ and Jordan and a year (or more) under the belt for Simmons, Fotu, Lawrence, Allen, Murphy, the Thompson's, and not forgetting Budda and Golden as pieces to an improved defence. Yes, we have to address CB, but if we can send two guys out there who rank better at the end of the season than the inept pair we had last time out, we're ahead of the game.

On the offence, we just added a premier centre that everyone was clamouring for. Our left side is solid, and we have enough competition on the right side to field a solid two and backups across the line. We added a wideout that if he returns to 80% of his previous form will be an absolute steal. We have running backs, but if more are needed, they are out there. RBs are like pretty girls; you don't have to stand on a corner very long before one passes by. And, and, we have D-Hop and KM going into his third year.

On cap space, I have to believe you're deliberately obtuse because we can quite easily create space to meet present needs, and if the draft gives us three contributors, that's gravy.

I'm sure none of this is convincing to a nervous nellie, worry wart like you, but that's my "big" picture, and it's going to take a season for me to change my mind.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Glossing over YOUR "big picture", more precisely.

I see JJ Watt's addition on "D"; the return CJ and Jordan and a year (or more) under the belt for Simmons, Fotu, Lawrence, Allen, Murphy, the Thompson's, and not forgetting Budda and Golden as pieces to an improved defence. Yes, we have to address CB, but if we can send two guys out there who rank better at the end of the season than the inept pair we had last time out, we're ahead of the game.

On the offence, we just added a premier centre that everyone was clamouring for. Our left side is solid, and we have enough competition on the right side to field a solid two and backups across the line. We added a wideout that if he returns to 80% of his previous form will be an absolute steal. We have running backs, but if more are needed, they are out there. RBs are like pretty girls; you don't have to stand on a corner very long before one passes by. And, and, we have D-Hop and KM going into his third year.

On cap space, I have to believe you're deliberately obtuse because we can quite easily create space to meet present needs, and if the draft gives us three contributors, that's gravy.

I'm sure none of this is convincing to a nervous nellie, worry wart like you, but that's my "big" picture, and it's going to take a season for me to change my mind.

You’re ability to spin positive is impressive. If you’ve done this every year you must be disappointed the majority of seasons.

AJ’s last uninjuted season was 75/1078. 80% is 60 for 862. I suspect you won’t think that worth the money.

“we have running backs” - lol
“Like pretty girls...don’t have to wait very long” - lol you must be a relatively new Cardinals fan

 

[Krangodnzr]

It’s just more of the old “if he left us he sucked” mindset.

I don't think he sucked really, but he isn't a big loss. He's a replacement level player.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You’re ability to spin positive is impressive. If you’ve done this every year you must be disappointed the majority of seasons.

AJ’s last uninjuted season was 75/1078. 80% is 60 for 862. I suspect you won’t think that worth the money.

“we have running backs” - lol
“Like pretty girls...don’t have to wait very long” - lol you must be a relatively new Cardinals fan

6 million is very much worth spending to get 60 and 800.

Nelson Agholar just got $14 mil or so for that level of production.

 

[Solar7]

Glossing over YOUR "big picture", more precisely.

I see JJ Watt's addition on "D"; the return CJ and Jordan and a year (or more) under the belt for Simmons, Fotu, Lawrence, Allen, Murphy, the Thompson's, and not forgetting Budda and Golden as pieces to an improved defence. Yes, we have to address CB, but if we can send two guys out there who rank better at the end of the season than the inept pair we had last time out, we're ahead of the game.

I think you're asking for a lot expecting that we're going to have better at CB than we did last year. Right now the available pieces on the market are all really bad. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. People point out PFF ratings, but they don't paint the whole picture, and it's important to remember that. Everyone available is on the wrong side of 32, dealing with injury, or were components of some of the worst defenses in the league last year.

Our safeties aren't even at their best in coverage, making this even more scary in a division that has to face Wilson and Stafford two times each.

On the offence, we just added a premier centre that everyone was clamouring for. Our left side is solid, and we have enough competition on the right side to field a solid two and backups across the line. We added a wideout that if he returns to 80% of his previous form will be an absolute steal. We have running backs, but if more are needed, they are out there. RBs are like pretty girls; you don't have to stand on a corner very long before one passes by. And, and, we have D-Hop and KM going into his third year.

Lots of ifs and maybes here. Also, I don't know how long you've been a fan of this team, but it's awfully easy to say you don't have to wait long for an RB to come by. This team has had 3 RBs get over 1,000 yards since coming to Arizona.

Adrian Murrell, 1998 - 1,042
Edgerrin James, 2006, 2007 - 1,159, 1,222
David Johnson - 2016 - 1,239

So that begs the question, if it's that easy, why haven't we done it?

Not to mention for all of the excitement about the offensive line and corpse of AJ Green, as I mentioned in another post in this thread: we've replaced 163 targets, 110 receptions, 984 yards, and 5 TDs with one guy who was responsible for 104 targets, 47 receptions, 523 yards, and 2 TDs.

On cap space, I have to believe you're deliberately obtuse because we can quite easily create space to meet present needs, and if the draft gives us three contributors, that's gravy.

I'm sure none of this is convincing to a nervous nellie, worry wart like you, but that's my "big" picture, and it's going to take a season for me to change my mind.

It's not "deliberately obtuse" to recognize that an extension for Chandler Jones takes two sides to play ball, cutting Kennard or Pugh creates more holes to fill with draft picks we don't have, and continuing to kick the can down the road on the cap to only hurt what will probably be a new GM is not a compelling reason to do so. Even if we create the cap space, the available players still stink.

Nervous nellie? How about sick of five years of non-winning football with an eye toward a sixth?