Confederate Memorials: Confronting Difficult History - National Trust for Historic Preservation

Discussion in 'Politics and Religion' started by Dback Jon, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Dback Jon

    Dback Jon Killer Snail Contributor

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    Note - this was published in June

    https://savingplaces.org/press-cent...atement-on-confederate-memorials#.WZSNRlWGOM8

    In recent months, many communities have been vigorously debating anew the impact, meaning, and propriety of Confederate memorials and symbols in the public space. We have received questions from across the political spectrum about our stance on this.

    At the National Trust, we believe that historic preservation requires taking our history seriously. We have an obligation to confront the complex and difficult chapters of our past, and to recognize the many ways that our understanding, and characterization, of our shared American story continues to shape our present and future.


    While some of these monuments were erected shortly after the war by grieving Southern families to honor the valor of fallen leaders and loved ones, many more were put in place for a more troubling purpose. Decades after the war, advocates of the Lost Cause erected these monuments all over the country to vindicate the Confederacy at the bar of history, erase the central issues of slavery and emancipation from our understanding of the war, and reaffirm a system of state-sanctioned white supremacy.

    Put simply, the erection of these Confederate memorials and enforcement of Jim Crow went hand-in-hand. They were intended as a celebration of white supremacy when they were constructed. As recent rallies in Charlottesville and elsewhere illustrate, they are still being used as symbols and rallying points for such hate today.
     
  2. carrrnuttt

    carrrnuttt Didactic

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    But, but...learn from your mistakes, and all that...
     
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  3. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    this would have been like erecting statues of Hitler, Eichman, Hess in Germany and the occupied areas of Poland AFTER WW2.

    Those statues ain't about history... they're about CELEBRATING TRAITORS. Men who fought to enslave, kidnap, rape, torture and GENERATION AFTER GENERATION AFTER GENERATION OF HUMAN BEINGS.

    Not SLAVES. Just the very word dehumanizes them. They were HUMANS... who were kidnapped from their continent to BUILD this country, and give their life for it.
     
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  4. BillsCarnage

    BillsCarnage Registered

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    Probably better to discuss the topic rather that direct certain comments at a specific person across multiple threads. ;)
     
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  5. Azlen

    Azlen Registered

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    Someone decorated the confederate memorial here in Arizona.

     
  6. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    Seriously... confederate statues are THE original Participation Trophy
     
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  7. UncleChris

    UncleChris Retirement Doesn't Suck Contributor

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  8. Phrazbit

    Phrazbit Registered

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    I somehow doubt Haiti is littered with statues of the former slave owners.
     
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  9. cheesebeef

    cheesebeef Registered User Contributor

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    And this is the inherent problem with our country... people love America SOOOOOOO much, it can seemingly NEVER admit to themselves what it's greatest sin is.

    Were there a lot of Republicans on the board decrying the Iraqi's pulling down a statue of Saddam Hussein? Because I sure as hell don't remember that. That's what "history" is still standing in A LOT of America. Statues of OPPRESSORS. People like to romanticize the Civil War.. it was brother versus brother... a shameful time in our history... as if there there were problems with many people on both sides, but there were fine people too. And that's nonsense. If you were fighting for the right to kidnap, enslave, torture, rape and murder generations of human beings, NOTHING about you was fine. And the people fighting AGAINST that hatred shared NO BLAME. My god, you could label the North the anti-fa back then. I mean, they were actually fighting to TAKE AWAY THE SOUTH'S RIGHTS!

    But again... the fallacy of the civil war is that there was good on both sides. There wasn't. There was evil. Evil like the Nazis. Evil like Stalin. Evil like all those crazy Kim's over in North Korea. And that same EVIL is still celebrated today in the form of Confederate bronzed participation trophies... that serve not only to cement the "greatness" of those men, but to INTIMIDATE the people they used to oppress. And when those people come out with guns, have military stashes around the city, battering rams... they aren't coming to play nice. They're coming "to take their country back!" And who coined that phrase?

    Our President.

    The man who started his entire run to the presidency by questioning if our first black president was actual an American Citizen.

    The man who "officially" started his campaign by calling Mexicans "rapists and drug dealers".

    The man who at rallies said he wished it was like the "old days" where protestors could be carried out of his rallies on stretchers... and that he would pay legal fees for people who beat up protestors.

    The man who not only called for a MUSLIM BAN, but even tried to sign it into temporary law via executive order (even though since 9/11, 73% of all terrorist deaths have come at the hands of white supremacist/far right terrorist groups).

    The man who just on whim decided that Transgender people can't bravely defend their country.

    And finally... the man who "didn't know who David Duke was" (even though EVERYONE knows who David Duke is and there's video PROOF of Trump knowing who he was years ago)... put alt-right white nationalists as his top advisor and who thought there were problems on "many, many sides"... and that there were "fine people" on the right.

    This man is evil folks. I know a lot of people just don't want to believe it because what does it say about the people who voted for evil? Well, it says you made a mistake. Which is okay. Everyone makes mistakes. I've made MASSIVE mistakes in my life. But what I've refused to do is bury myself in denial about things I've done. I OWN my mistakes. I've done a lot of work to try and correct my life moving forward after making those mistakes.

    And that is what I'm asking of my friends on the right.

    We have the most inept, unqualified, offensive person to ever sit in the oval office and he's purposefully tearing us apart. There's a reason there's been a rise in white nationalist/KKK/Nazi membership since he started running. He's given them a voice... and cover (multiple times... retweeting neo-nazi sites, failing to disavow David Duke until pushed, calling some of the KKK/NAZI squad this weekend "fine people").

    And please... before you go all antifa on me, yes, there are elements of antifa which are a problem as well... people who are just looking for chaos and a fight... but Antifa ISN'T in the Oval Office. It isn't amongst the President's chief advisers. The Alt-Right White Nationalists ARE. Can you really argue that not only his words, but his actions in office so far are that of a White Nationalist? I implore you just to look at what Trump has said and done above one more time. I get that we all have differing views of how government works, but are our views THAT different on what amounts to decency to other human beings?

    If they are, then we're brewing for the mother of all fights. Something that will make the Civil War pale in comparison. Are we really going to make that mistake again... because people can't admit that Donald Trump is human scum who has no business making decision for Americans, Left, Right or Center?
     
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  10. 82CardsGrad

    82CardsGrad 7 x 70

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    Trump is holding a rally here in Phoenix next Tuesday... I'd be shocked if hell doesn't break loose at the event... :(
     
  11. Azlen

    Azlen Registered

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    Aka The Pardon Joe Arpaio for Civil Rights Crimes event.
     
  12. MrYeahbut

    MrYeahbut 4 Food groups: beans, chili, cheese, bacon Contributor

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  13. UncleChris

    UncleChris Retirement Doesn't Suck Contributor

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    i hope nobody gets hurt. There will undoubtedly be some of our alt-right friends there with various firearms prominently displayed...

    Lovely.
     
  14. LoyaltyisaCurse

    LoyaltyisaCurse IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...

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    ...

    IMG_4631.JPG
     
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  15. UncleChris

    UncleChris Retirement Doesn't Suck Contributor

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    I've been reading a lot of pure crap on facebook.... enought to make what little brain I have left rot and my eyeballs fall onto the keyboard. The worst of them is this meme:

    [​IMG]

    Well..... not surprisingly, this is a boatload of crap, but a lot of folks are bathing in it, nonetheless.

    I've included some comments from an article I read that pretty much puts this to bed, stinker that it is. (Note to mods: this is not from the actual article, but comments that two different people made. Good stuff).

    "If you practice in the legal arena like I do then you know that the language of the statute in question is limited to that statute.

    I have given you a link to the actual law as kept by the US House. Please note that in subsection (e) it reads:

    "(e) For the purpose of this section, and section 433, the term 'veteran' includes a person who served in the military or naval forces
    of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term 'active, military or naval service' includes active service in such forces."

    That means that the expansive definition of "veteran" sought by those seeking to give US Veteran status to Confederate soldiers is not what the Act says nor is it what the Act was intended to do. It is a self-limiting definition solely for the purpose of providing a pension. It does not redefine "veteran" in any other statute whatsoever. It is a basic rule of statutory construction.

    http://uscode.house.gov/statutes/pl/85/425.pdf"


    AND


    "Confederates would not be considered U.S. Veterans and the laws that you point out easily prove that.

    If confederate veterans were U. S. Veterans, then there would be no need to stipulate that the term veteran includes confederate veterans for the purpose of pensions. If the were considered U.S. Veterans their inclusion would be automatic, but they aren't, so the stipulation is required.

    Same with the headstones. The law stipulates that headstones go to both the union soldiers and the confederate soldiers of the civil war. It separates them. If the confederate and union soldiers were the same, then no separation is required but they are separated because they are not the same.

    That Confederate cemeteries are not National Cemeteries is another obvious point. The government Meticulously cares for the grave sites for all U. S. Troops. If these soldiers were U.S. Troops, those cemeteries would also be cared for, but they are not because the soldiers in them are not U.S. Veterans.

    Yes they were all, with few exceptions, pardoned. Being pardoned forgives your transgressions, it does not legitimize them. As pointed out, there is no argument to be made that the confederate soldiers were acting as American soldiers by fighting Union soldiers.

    We don't recognize the Americans who fought for the Axis powers as U.S veterans. We don't recognize the natives who fought with (not as part of the American military but as allies to it) the Americans as U.S veterans. Why would we recognize the confederates any differently when they fought against us?

    All one has to do is ask the self this question. Decades from now, when the great great grandchild wants to wave a flag and honor his American ancestor who went and fought for ISIS in Syria, are we going to let him build a monument to him and make him an American veteran? No. No we aren't. Nor should we be waving a battle flag of or honoring members of an force who turned their backs on our country and killed hundreds of thousands of actual American soldiers.

    The actions of the confederates are a stain on americas honor. This history should never be forgotten, but it should not be looked upon with honor and commemoration. It should be looked upon as the shameful moment in American history that it is.



    Traitors..... every damned one of them.
     
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