College Free Agents

bankybruce

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I honestly think that players survey will hurt us with UDFA. These guys will put in the work and get paid so little, will get a bill for the food they eat if that hasn't changed.
 

Solar7

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I honestly think that players survey will hurt us with UDFA. These guys will put in the work and get paid so little, will get a bill for the food they eat if that hasn't changed.
So little? The NFL minimum salary is $750,000 in 2023. Practice squad players make $207,000, or $11,500 per week. Please, sign me up for that. I made $32,000 a year when I left college.
 

SunsTzu

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I honestly think that players survey will hurt us with UDFA. These guys will put in the work and get paid so little, will get a bill for the food they eat if that hasn't changed.

Pretty sure guys would prefer to go where they have the best shot of making a team. The survey may have hurt the team, but I can't see buying food as a deal breaker when your either getting 11.5k a week on the practice squad or 41.7k a week if you make the team.
 

AZCB34

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So little? The NFL minimum salary is $750,000 in 2023. Practice squad players make $207,000, or $11,500 per week. Please, sign me up for that. I made $32,000 a year when I left college.
You gotta make the team to make that
 

bankybruce

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So little? The NFL minimum salary is $750,000 in 2023. Practice squad players make $207,000, or $11,500 per week. Please, sign me up for that. I made $32,000 a year when I left college.
UDFAs get between $15k and $25k in bonuses with no paychecks unless they make the team. After taxes, that's between about $10k and $15k to live on until September. Average rent in Phoenix is about $1500 a month or $7500 until paychecks start. So the have between $2500 and $7500 to live off of for 6 months. Getting charged for meals for putting a late session the weight room can get expensive.

You might not see an issue, but to players deciding, it's a big deal.

"Franchises only have a certain total amount of money that they can pull from to use for signing bonuses for UDFAs. The number is determined based on the team's total budgeted allotment for rookies, and last year ranged between $160,000 and $200,000, depending on the team"
 
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bankybruce

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Pretty sure guys would prefer to go where they have the best shot of making a team. The survey may have hurt the team, but I can't see buying food as a deal breaker when your either getting 11.5k a week on the practice squad or 41.7k a week if you make the team.
They don't get that unless they make they team. The still have to live until then. Free meals matter to these guys who are fringe roster players with literally no money in their pockets
 

Solar7

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You gotta make the team to make that
You're still getting a signing bonus, as mentioned.
UDFAs get between $15k and $25k in bonuses with no paychecks unless they make the team. After taxes, that's between about $10k and $15k to live on until September. Average rent in Phoenix is about $1500 a month or $7500 until paychecks start. So the have between $2500 and $7500 to live off of for 6 months. Getting charged for meals for putting a late session the weight room can expensive.

You might not see an issue, but to players deciding, it's a big deal.

"Franchises only have a certain total amount of money that they can pull from to use for signing bonuses for UDFAs. The number is determined based on the team's total budgeted allotment for rookies, and last year ranged between $160,000 and $200,000, depending on the team"
Keep in mind that AZ has an advantageous tax situation compared to other states as part of this consideration, plus our roster is so weak that you have a much better chance of making it here than say, Philadelphia, where you're going to pay a tax premium and probably not make the team.

Also consider these kids are getting two free meals a day at the facility, and a free gym membership, even if things haven't changed. And in all likelihood, they just got a completely free college education.

Compare this to a standard student graduating from college who is getting no meals paid for, is still likely dealing with student loan debt, can't afford to pay for or make the time for the gym, and I'm just not feeling sympathetic for these guys. Plus the student isn't getting a "signing bonus" equivalent to half or more of their annual salary that's theirs to keep even if they get fired four months into their job. They're making like $35k all year and are getting paid maybe every other week, so money has to stretch.

I feel zero sympathy for not getting a free dinner every day. Also, for rent? Find a roommate. That's what normal fresh graduates have to do these days if not outright living with their parents. There's at least 9 rookies already on the roster, and more UDFAs to choose from, all of whom will probably want to find short term housing to share until they're certain they made the roster.

Edit: I mean, come on, look at this.
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bankybruce

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You're still getting a signing bonus, as mentioned.

Keep in mind that AZ has an advantageous tax situation compared to other states as part of this consideration, plus our roster is so weak that you have a much better chance of making it here than say, Philadelphia, where you're going to pay a tax premium and probably not make the team.

Also consider these kids are getting two free meals a day at the facility, and a free gym membership, even if things haven't changed. And in all likelihood, they just got a completely free college education.

Compare this to a standard student graduating from college who is getting no meals paid for, is still likely dealing with student loan debt, can't afford to pay for or make the time for the gym, and I'm just not feeling sympathetic for these guys. Plus the student isn't getting a "signing bonus" equivalent to half or more of their annual salary that's theirs to keep even if they get fired four months into their job. They're making like $35k all year and are getting paid maybe every other week, so money has to stretch.

I feel zero sympathy for not getting a free dinner every day. Also, for rent? Find a roommate. That's what normal fresh graduates have to do these days if not outright living with their parents. There's at least 9 rookies already on the roster, and more UDFAs to choose from, all of whom will probably want to find short term housing to share until they're certain they made the roster.

While you may not havr sympathy, it still doesn't negate the fact that these players will choose programs that will help them. If the difference is a program that feeds them quality food that will help you get bigger and stronger for free or a program that will nickle and dime them, we will never get the best UDFAs. We always miss out and IMHO, this is one reason why.

I want a Super Bowl, so my I want my team to do everything legal to get players to want to play here.

Honest question, does not part not matter to you?
 

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If you are only making $25000 a year you are not paying $10000 a year in taxes. You should be able to keep almost all of your pay. Plus, I do believe undrafted players do get a small amount for expenses.
 

bankybruce

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If you are only making $25000 a year you are not paying $10000 a year in taxes. You should be able to keep almost all of your pay. Plus, I do believe undrafted players do get a small amount for expenses.
It's a bonus, it's taxed higher.

The point is being missed. Whether you agree or not if the should get free meals, these things matter to the players. That is why it was a question on the survey. We are the only team charging, it's a bad look.
 

bankybruce

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Really great breakdown here.
"There were 756 players drafted on Day 3 of the draft from 2017-2020, 675 of them made a 53-man roster (89%). If you focus only the sixth and seventh round guys, there were 383 and 325 of them made the roster (85%). Comparing that figure to undrafted guys we find that there were 1713 UDFAs signed to 90-man rosters in 2017-2020 and 630 of them made the 53-man roster (37%). That is a huge difference. The takeaway is that, when teams spend draft capital on players – even late Day 3 draft capital – they have a vested interest in giving those players more of a chance to make the roster than UDFAs. They also have an interest in protecting their sunk cost."

 

Shane

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It's a bonus, it's taxed higher.

The point is being missed. Whether you agree or not if the should get free meals, these things matter to the players. That is why it was a question on the survey. We are the only team charging, it's a bad look.
You’re sure going on and on about something that they literally already said has been fixed :)
 

Shane

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All players at minicamp receive team-provided food, lodging and a per diem. During preseason training camp according to the NFL collective bargaining agreement, first year players receive $1,700 per week and veterans receive $2,900 per week in per diem.
That’s some good per diem and per diem isn’t taxed
 

Solar7

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While you may not havr sympathy, it still doesn't negate the fact that these players will choose programs that will help them. If the difference is a program that feeds them quality food that will help you get bigger and stronger for free or a program that will nickle and dime them, we will never get the best UDFAs. We always miss out and IMHO, this is one reason why.

I want a Super Bowl, so my I want my team to do everything legal to get players to want to play here.

Honest question, does not part not matter to you?
I don't have any problem with trying to make this the most world class organization in the NFL. But I find it tacitly ridiculous that someone would factor in a ~$10 packed dinner charge to be the reason they wouldn't join a team that gave them an opening to make 3/4 of $1M at the bare minimum. You're an undrafted free agent, not a superstar. It's very likely you're going to be stuck at a minimum wage job or similar if you don't succeed, in which case you'll still have to pay for dinner. And probably not get to spend 2 hours of your day in the gym.
 

bankybruce

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I don't have any problem with trying to make this the most world class organization in the NFL. But I find it tacitly ridiculous that someone would factor in a ~$10 packed dinner charge to be the reason they wouldn't join a team that gave them an opening to make 3/4 of $1M at the bare minimum. You're an undrafted free agent, not a superstar. It's very likely you're going to be stuck at a minimum wage job or similar if you don't succeed, in which case you'll still have to pay for dinner. And probably not get to spend 2 hours of your day in the gym.
Ugggg! Again, this about thr players having choices and won't choose an organization known for being cheap.

We'll have to agre to disagree.
 

bankybruce

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That’s some good per diem and per diem isn’t taxed
But it's not until training camp and for most of these guys will last 3-4 weeks. They'll leave their football careers with $5k in their pockets.
 
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