Chandler Jones requested a trade

Chopper0080

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It’s not like the Cardinals don’t run a fair amount of man. It also seems like people are saying Vance is incapable of adapting to any personnel changes.

Adding an edit: I think it's better to actually look at what's observable about schemes and make an assessment from that information. From PFF: "Joseph called Cover 1 on early downs at the fifth-highest rate in the league last season, choosing to blitz at the fourth-highest rate. The problem was that they couldn’t quite get to the quarterback in those blitzing situations, as they managed a 22nd-ranked 38.4% pressure rate on those snaps."

All teams run some mix of man and zone and tweaks should be made to a scheme to maximize the talents of your defenders and put your defense into a position to succeed. I'm sure Howard would excel regardless of the mix as he is an excellent corner, even if he is marginally better in man than zone. Corners change defenses and are successful just like it happens at every single other position in the NFL.

Even if you think the Cardinals run almost no man, that Xavien would be pedestrian in zone and that Vance would not give him a chance to succeed we have a gaping hole at corner and are discussing the main asset in this trade, in Chandler, being an older player coming off a season ending injury.
It isn't about can Vance make adjustments or can Howard do it, it is that Vance will not completely change his scheme to accommodate Howard and if Howard is not playing predominately a man-scheme, he isn't really worth the 1st rounder and 18 mil per year that he wants.
 

Chopper0080

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The issue with Howard is the cost to acquire him. You have to give up players or picks and give him a new large new contract. That is a lot to give up for a guy when the scheme he is playing in won't maximize his talents. Like trading for and paying top dollar for a RB to then put in a RBBC where he is only on the field 50% of the snaps.
 

juza76

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Has Powers reached the Boomer Esiason level of contempt for the Cardinals, yet?
Ex cards player, smart guy, one of our former defensive coordinator favourite players
He has connections with someone obviously, guess with a guy like Buckner
 

RON_IN_OC

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Ex cards player, smart guy, one of our former defensive coordinator favourite players
He has connections with someone obviously, guess with a guy like Buckner

I'm not questioning his connections...just his motives. He's acting like Keim stole his girlfriend.
 

BritCard

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Not trading a 31 year old pass rusher in a contract dispute and a 5th for this guy is silly. And 18m per is cheap. Humphrey is getting 19.5. Ramsey 20.

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BigDavis75

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The issue with Howard is the cost to acquire him. You have to give up players or picks and give him a new large new contract. That is a lot to give up for a guy when the scheme he is playing in won't maximize his talents. Like trading for and paying top dollar for a RB to then put in a RBBC where he is only on the field 50% of the snaps.

How would this be remotely similar to trading for a player that would play half of the snaps?

Also - do you for some reason think that all corners perform the same when playing in a zone scheme or that the Cardinals run very little man coverage?
 

ASUCHRIS

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Not trading a 31 year old pass rusher in a contract dispute and a 5th for this guy is silly. And 18m per is cheap. Humphrey is getting 19.5. Ramsey 20.

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Yeah whether Howard or Gilmore, we have a desperate need for a legit corner moving forward. Both would qualify.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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had we resigned Reddick, signed Watt and made this trade, I would have been all for this. Still could have signed Butler. Would have kept our good pass rush together from last year while adding Watt and Rhodes and Butler. That would have been a bang up off-season for this defense.
Agree. A shame the front office couldn’t see this.
 

Chopper0080

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How would this be remotely similar to trading for a player that would play half of the snaps?

Also - do you for some reason think that all corners perform the same when playing in a zone scheme or that the Cardinals run very little man coverage?
They are similar by not utilizing the asset you are acquiring to it's greatest potential.

Cardinals run very little match-man (or shadow) or iso-man+zone combos. They will run man and they will run zone but you can easily avoid a CB if you want. Also, your ability to excel as a zone CB is limited. You almost have to have the freedom to break scheme to do so.

Mike Zimmer quote "I can find a cover-2 corner anywhere. I can go down to the 7-11 in Bloomington and get one."
 

BigDavis75

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They are similar by not utilizing the asset you are acquiring to it's greatest potential.

Cardinals run very little match-man (or shadow) or iso-man+zone combos. They will run man and they will run zone but you can easily avoid a CB if you want. Also, your ability to excel as a zone CB is limited. You almost have to have the freedom to break scheme to do so.

Mike Zimmer quote "I can find a cover-2 corner anywhere. I can go down to the 7-11 in Bloomington and get one."

You can always avoid a corner, that’s not the point. I would love to once again have a corner teams avoid as we haven’t had one for years.

Could you share these statistics where it cites the Cardinals playing very little man? This information was pretty difficult to come by but one I found stated they played more cover-1 than nearly every other team.
 

kerouac9

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You can always avoid a corner, that’s not the point. I would love to once again have a corner teams avoid as we haven’t had one for years.

Could you share these statistics where it cites the Cardinals playing very little man? This information was pretty difficult to come by but one I found stated they played more cover-1 than nearly every other team.

Patrick Peterson was one of the least-targeted CBs in the NFL last year.
 

Jetstream Green

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You can always avoid a corner, that’s not the point. I would love to once again have a corner teams avoid as we haven’t had one for years.

Could you share these statistics where it cites the Cardinals playing very little man? This information was pretty difficult to come by but one I found stated they played more cover-1 than nearly every other team.
Being an elite CB I think is one of the most rare or rarest skill sets next right next to a franchise QB. Finding a 'shutdown CB' (if they even really still exist in the truest sense now with the new rules which favor the offense) is extremely rare. We have had two in my time watching the Cards, Aeneas Williams and Patrick Peterson in his prime. DRC for example was great but not a shutdown corner, while the likes of Deon Sanders are once in a blue moon. I think we have become spoiled, just like ironically Peterson thinking he still has 'it' as a shutdown guy. There are teams and fans of those teams which cannot remember having a shutdown CB at all
 
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