CBS Projecting Murray Trade

slanidrac16

ASFN Icon
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2002
Posts
15,082
Reaction score
14,609
Location
Plainfield, Il.
You are creating drama with a high priced primadonna starting QB like Kyler.

You would hope it would create competition - steel sharpens steel.

However, Kyler has never had to "compete" for a starting job. When he did at A&M...he left.

He isn't a dawg - he just isn't.

He would pout and crumble which would then get us less for him in a trade.
Then he’s not our guy.
 

Denny Green Fan

Registered
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Posts
1,951
Reaction score
173
I would be mad if we traded Kyler and drafted an even bigger potential problem in Williams. That kid is bad news.

If we want to change directions you go with the 6'4 qb with a rocket arm and a seemingly great attitude in Maye.
if it wasn’t for the cap hit I would be screaming for maye but that would cripple our ability to improve the roster. I would be fine with trading down simply cuz we have so many needs.
 

lobo

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
3,310
Reaction score
229
Location
Inverness, Il
I would be mad if we traded Kyler and drafted an even bigger potential problem in Williams. That kid is bad news.

If we want to change directions you go with the 6'4 qb with a rocket arm and a seemingly great attitude in Maye.
I couldn't agree with you any more in your first two sentences.
I would be mad if we traded Kyler and drafted an even bigger potential problem in Williams. That kid is bad news.

If we want to change directions you go with the 6'4 qb with a rocket arm and a seemingly great attitude in Maye.
First 2 sentences....spot on! We heard some very similar rumblings right after KM was signed about " Maybe I should play baseball. CW can turn out to be all world, but I get uncomfortable in hearing is dad commenting at the beginning of the college season about the teams he does not want to go to...I think there is so much time between today and the draft, I am just going to be quiet and watch people knock themselves out over all the rumor's....this season is what we expected.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,580
Reaction score
54,183
Location
SoCal
We do have reason for hope though because Murray has demonstrated that if you put a relatively good team around him, he can play at an MVP level.

I think Murray just isn't a player who elevates players around him. He needs a good supporting cast to be effective.
It’s been three years since we saw that guy. I think he’s buried and gone. The glimpse was just that. Chasing glimpses is a long storied tale of failure.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,580
Reaction score
54,183
Location
SoCal
I think you guys think way to little of Murray's value.

Is there a QB in the draft in the 2nd round likely to be better than him - No.

Is there another veteran that will be available better than him - doubtful.

Is there more than 3 teams looking for a new starting QB - Yes.

Supply and Demand.
His contract is a terrible counterweight.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
61,580
Reaction score
54,183
Location
SoCal
Not really. You’re hoping that he plays better in his first full season under a new regime than he did the last year and a half. Some are calling for Wilson, who improved dramatically the second half of this year after looking done the first year and a half with Denver, where he had a superior supporting cast than Kyler’s had during that same time period.
Except Wilson had a large body work of success. Kyler had a 7 game streak. Terrible comparison.
 

PJ1

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Posts
11,970
Reaction score
4,862
Location
Nashville TN.
You are creating drama with a high priced primadonna starting QB like Kyler.

You would hope it would create competition - steel sharpens steel.

However, Kyler has never had to "compete" for a starting job. When he did at A&M...he left.

He isn't a dawg - he just isn't.

He would pout and crumble which would then get us less for him in a trade.
So true. I stated the same. KM would react very poorly to any real competition. He would find it insulting and create a situation that would force us to move him.
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
38,428
Reaction score
28,053
Location
Scottsdale, Az
The next #1 pick is going to probably make double what Kyler will make... I'm not sure what the point is comparing career salaries between Baker and Kyler.

This is the thing everyone is missing. I absolutely got the salary cap rising due to the new TV deal right.

Murray is a bargain in 3 years. That's exactly when you would have to extend a rookie on his deal.
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
38,643
Reaction score
21,757
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
This is the thing everyone is missing. I absolutely got the salary cap rising due to the new TV deal right.

Murray is a bargain in 3 years. That's exactly when you would have to extend a rookie on his deal.
Not if he stinks, though. I see a minuscule chance he has 3 more seasons with the Cards.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
89,475
Reaction score
63,085
This is the thing everyone is missing. I absolutely got the salary cap rising due to the new TV deal right.

Murray is a bargain in 3 years. That's exactly when you would have to extend a rookie on his deal.
Man… thinking about keeping this mediocre Kyler for three years and then being happy that our QB is a “bargain” sounds like the most Mike Bidwillian thinking I’ve ever heard of.

And I know you’re not saying that exactly, but that sounds A LOT like the same “cap is going up so Ayton will be a bargain” argument that I disagreed with. Ayton at 30 million would hurt the team and cap same way Kyler would if he keeps going that way. But even moreso in the NFL as opposed to the NBA because in the NFL, players renegotiate their deals all the time whereas they can’t in the NBA. Mediocrity is mediocrity and if you’re still paying for a “bargain” in three years in the NFL, that guarantees that “bargain” continued to be mediocre OR WORSE because otherwise, he likely would have renegotiated like all superstar QBs do when their contract falls way behind the others.
 

Devilmaycare

Chief Brah Officer
Moderator
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Posts
6,518
Reaction score
9,219
Location
Scottsdale
The question I'm still struggling with is, is Maye going to be better than Kyler & MHJ? If I can't answer yes to that then I'm not making the move. I'd get MHJ and see how the next year plays out unless something surprising happens with the Houston pick. I keep getting the feeling that Maye is going to have a Trubisky type of career too which isn't helping me want to pull the trigger on trading Kyler.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,785
Reaction score
32,930
Location
Orange County, CA
It’s been three years since we saw that guy. I think he’s buried and gone. The glimpse was just that. Chasing glimpses is a long storied tale of failure.
Maybe. He's also played under much worse conditions since then.

At this point that's the reason to keep trying until it's 100% proven he can't do it.
 

GatorAZ

feed hopkins
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Posts
24,670
Reaction score
16,999
Location
The Giant Toaster
if it wasn’t for the cap hit I would be screaming for maye but that would cripple our ability to improve the roster. I would be fine with trading down simply cuz we have so many needs.

Trading Kyler saves $5m in cap space this year and $200m over the next 5 lol. Cap space isn’t on the list of reasons not to move on from him.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
89,475
Reaction score
63,085
The question I'm still struggling with is, is Maye going to be better than Kyler & MHJ? If I can't answer yes to that then I'm not making the move. I'd get MHJ and see how the next year plays out unless something surprising happens with the Houston pick. I keep getting the feeling that Maye is going to have a Trubisky type of career too which isn't helping me want to pull the trigger on trading Kyler.
If we could trade Kyler, I’d still take MJH, get a stopgap QB and hope to draft a QB of the future in the next two drafts, but not necessarily with the 2nd pick.

People really want to rebuild or… build? You don’t start that entire process with a QB, you ultimately don’t believe in, choking a significant portion of the cap.
 

daves

Keepin' it real!
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Posts
3,404
Reaction score
6,670
Location
Orange County, CA
Murray is a bargain in 3 years. That's exactly when you would have to extend a rookie on his deal.
Not to beat a dead horse, but Murray is only a bargain in 3 years if he's playing at a top-10 level... and not only has he not shown evidence of his ability to do so for the last 2.5 years (!), but if he DOES start playing at that level, HE TOO will be expecting an extension in the same timeframe, if not sooner.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
89,475
Reaction score
63,085
Not to beat a dead horse, but Murray is only a bargain in 3 years if he's playing at a top-10 level... and not only has he not shown evidence of his ability to do so for the last 2.5 years (!), but if he DOES start playing at that level, HE TOO will be expecting an extension in the same timeframe, if not sooner.

Resistance is futile.
 

Shane

Current STAR
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
66,623
Reaction score
33,213
Location
Las Vegas
Not to beat a dead horse, but Murray is only a bargain in 3 years if he's playing at a top-10 level... and not only has he not shown evidence of his ability to do so for the last 2.5 years (!), but if he DOES start playing at that level, HE TOO will be expecting an extension in the same timeframe, if not sooner.
Wisdom Dave
 

daves

Keepin' it real!
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Posts
3,404
Reaction score
6,670
Location
Orange County, CA
Wisdom Dave
I'm not happy about it, but I think 90% of us see it now.

The question, as others have pointed out, is whether the Cards are better off (a)moving on this off-season and drafting Murray's replacement, or (b) building the rest of the team this off-season, giving Murray one more chance with better weapons and a full off-season in the "new" system, and zero more excuses.

If they follow plan a, they probably don't compete until 2025 at best, since they'd be spending draft capital and blowing dead cap space in 2024, and that's only if the rookie QB isn't a bust.

Plan b - keeping Murray - likely has even higher variance. The best possible outcome would be for Murray to return to "first half of 2021" form. Then the Cards are on the way to competing in 2024! But, what are the odds of that?

If they follow plan b and Murray remains below average, he can be replaced with less impact on the cap NEXT off-season, but he probably has even less value then. And at that point the team would likely be in a less advantageous position to draft a replacement than this year, and it could be 2026 before the team completes for the playoffs. Oof.
 

Krangodnzr

Captain of Team Murray
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
35,785
Reaction score
32,930
Location
Orange County, CA
I'm not happy about it, but I think 90% of us see it now.

The question, as others have pointed out, is whether the Cards are better off (a)moving on this off-season and drafting Murray's replacement, or (b) building the rest of the team this off-season, giving Murray one more chance with better weapons and a full off-season in the "new" system, and zero more excuses.

If they follow plan a, they probably don't compete until 2025 at best, since they'd be spending draft capital and blowing dead cap space in 2024, and that's only if the rookie QB isn't a bust.

Plan b - keeping Murray - likely has even higher variance. The best possible outcome would be for Murray to return to "first half of 2021" form. Then the Cards are on the way to competing in 2024! But, what are the odds of that?

If they follow plan b and Murray remains below average, he can be replaced with less impact on the cap NEXT off-season, but he probably has even less value then. And at that point the team would likely be in a less advantageous position to draft a replacement than this year, and it could be 2026 before the team completes for the playoffs. Oof.
Sunk cost.
 
Top