CB Will Johnson and 2nd round picks are Hold Outs

[az jam]

The problem is that, for the first time ever, a second-round pick has gotten a fully-guaranteed contract. It started with Texans receiver Jayden Higgins, the second pick in round two. That sparked a fully-guaranteed contract for Browns linebacker Carson Schwesinger, the first pick in the second round.

For the next 30 picks, nothing has happened. Obviously, the players and their agents want as many of the deals as possible to be fully guaranteed. The teams want to draw the line as close to the third pick in round two (Seahawks safety Nick Emmanwori) as possible.

There’s no colluding to be done, since the common goal of limited guaranteed deals is obvious. Still, it’s the current battleground when it comes to whether the full four years of a contract will be guaranteed.

Here is the full write up from Mike Florio

Second round is current battleground for fully-guaranteed contracts

With 30 second-rounders unsigned, someone has to blink.

www.nbcsports.com

 

[BACH]

Nothing to be worried about from a specific Cardinals POV. It a league mess created by the Browns - again.

Johnson is just smack in the middle. If contract follow slotted value he’s basic the last to be slotted no matter if it’s top down or buttom up.

 

[schutd]

Add the wrinkle that you (and your agent) feel you're a top 10 level pick, you KNOW they're going to push for first round contract negotiations. Part of the process. Hope he's full go by camp.

 

[BigDavis75]

Nothing to be worried about from a specific Cardinals POV. It a league mess created by the Browns - again.

Johnson is just smack in the middle. If contract follow slotted value he’s basic the last to be slotted no matter if it’s top down or buttom up.

Why is this the Browns’ fault if the Texans gave the first fully guaranteed contract here?

 

[Dback Jon]

Why is this the Browns’ fault if the Texans gave the first fully guaranteed contract here?

He’s probably referring to the Watson fully guaranteed contract, which was the first ever


But for rookies, yes this is the first

Don’t be surprised if Houston there is now a black ball from Super Bowl hosting contention

 

[phillycard]

He’s probably referring to the DeShawn Jackson fully guaranteed contract, which was the first ever


But for rookies, yes this is the first

Don’t be surprised if Houston there is now a black ball from Super Bowl hosting contention

You mean Watson, correct Jon?

 

[Dback Jon]

You mean Watson, correct Jon?

Yes.

 

[BigDavis75]

He’s probably referring to the Watson fully guaranteed contract, which was the first ever


But for rookies, yes this is the first

Don’t be surprised if Houston there is now a black ball from Super Bowl hosting contention

Not sure how that applies to second round picks receiving full grantees like four years later.

 

[BACH]

He’s probably referring to the Watson fully guaranteed contract, which was the first ever


But for rookies, yes this is the first

Don’t be surprised if Houston there is now a black ball from Super Bowl hosting contention

My mistake. Heard on a podcast that Browns made the contract with Schwesinger first

 

[Stout]

Add the wrinkle that you (and your agent) feel you're a top 10 level pick, you KNOW they're going to push for first round contract negotiations. Part of the process. Hope he's full go by camp.

There is no such wrinkle. Draft pick contracts are fully slotted, so there is no ability to agitate for first round money. The problem is wholly a Texans made problem in fully guaranteeing a contract.

 

[BACH]

There is no such wrinkle. Draft pick contracts are fully slotted, so there is no ability to agitate for first round money. The problem is wholly a Texans made problem in fully guaranteeing a contract.

As @Stout says. Value is slotted.

The new thing is that the entire 4 year contract is guaranteed for 2nd rounders. Never been given before. So do those terms now cover the 2 first picks only? Top 5 in the 2nd? Top 15? Or all of them?

That’s the waiting game

 

[oaken1]

As @Stout says. Value is slotted.

The new thing is that the entire 4 year contract guaranteed for 2nd rounders. Never been given before. So does those terms now cover the 2 first picks only? Top 5 in the 2nd? Top 15? Or all of them?

That’s the waiting game

then how many seasons do we get before the same thing happens with the third rounders..then the fourth...
before you know it every draft pick gets a fully guaranteed contract.
makes a lot of those late round picks lose value and will keep a lot of undeveloped kids with talent from getting drafted at all.

 

[QuebecCard]

then how many seasons do we get before the same thing happens with the third rounders..then the fourth...
before you know it every draft pick gets a fully guaranteed contract.
makes a lot of those late round picks lose value and will keep a lot of undeveloped kids with talent from getting drafted at all.

And what's the problem?

The NHL is a Cap league with guaranteed contracts.

 

[kerouac9]

then how many seasons do we get before the same thing happens with the third rounders..then the fourth...
before you know it every draft pick gets a fully guaranteed contract.
makes a lot of those late round picks lose value and will keep a lot of undeveloped kids with talent from getting drafted at all.

How terrible that these young men would get the same security MLB and NBA players get. Gotta hold the line and ensure Michael Bidwill and his heirs maximize every penny.

The last Cards second rounder to have his rookie deal terminated was Andy Isabella in 2019 — and that was in his walk year. Before that it was Ryan Williams. Second round picks are de facto guaranteed.

 

[PDXChris]

How terrible that these young men would get the same security MLB and NBA players get. Gotta hold the line and ensure Michael Bidwill and his heirs maximize every penny.

The last Cards second rounder to have his rookie deal terminated was Andy Isabella in 2019 — and that was in his walk year. Before that it was Ryan Williams. Second round picks are de facto guaranteed.

I mentioned in the Will Johnson thread on draft day that the Cardinals should show him how much they believe in him by giving a fully guaranteed deal. Teams rarley give up early in 2nd round picks. Now, if you're getting 100% guaranteed in the 2nd, then there needs to be offset language, but that's typically already.

 

[kerouac9]

I mentioned in the Will Johnson thread on draft day that the Cardinals should show him how much they believe in him by giving a fully guaranteed deal. Teams rarley give up early in 2nd round picks. Now, if you're getting 100% guaranteed in the 2nd, then there needs to be offset language, but that's typically already.

Keon Coleman's salary in the final year of his deal (last year's first pick in the second round) is just over $2 million, as is Max Melton's. Quibbling over the small chance that your second rounder isn't going to have a job with someone seems pennywise to me (every second round pick from the 2021 draft class still has an NFL job; only two third-round picks are out of the NFL -- LOL Kellen Mond.)

 

[oaken1]

Keon Coleman's salary in the final year of his deal (last year's first pick in the second round) is just over $2 million, as is Max Melton's. Quibbling over the small chance that your second rounder isn't going to have a job with someone seems pennywise to me (every second round pick from the 2021 draft class still has an NFL job; only two third-round picks are out of the NFL -- LOL Kellen Mond.)

Anyone with foresight can see it's the precedent that matters.
The team has to put the money in escrow anyway.
But the deals will go up.
It would really suck if someone loses a few second and third year players over a couple seasons then cannot sign their star pass rusher because they are carrying dead cap.
And no. I don't give a single damn about Mikey or his money. But nor do I give any damns about some poor kid getting paid for putting his body on the line. Construction workers do it 12 months out of the year and never once made 200k for going to college.

I personally think every single player should have the same base salary..then at the end of the year they get a fat bonus based on their production.

 

[PDXChris]

Anyone with foresight can see it's the precedent that matters.
The team has to put the money in escrow anyway.
But the deals will go up.
It would really suck if someone loses a few second and third year players over a couple seasons then cannot sign their star pass rusher because they are carrying dead cap.
And no. I don't give a single damn about Mikey or his money. But nor do I give any damns about some poor kid getting paid for putting his body on the line. Construction workers do it 12 months out of the year and never once made 200k for going to college.

I personally think every single player should have the same base salary..then at the end of the year they get a fat bonus based on their production.

Max Melton's deal is 100% guaranteed for the first 3 years is his 4 year deal. Overall, $6.8 of the $8.8 million is guaranteed. A potential of $2 million extra in dead money every so many years isn't hurting any teams. Plus, there are off sets in his deal, so if he cut aftet year 3 and signs somewhere else for $1.5 million, the Cardinals are on the hook for just $500 if the deal was fully guaranteed.

 

[BACH]

Max Melton's deal is 100% guaranteed for the first 3 years is his 4 year deal. Overall, $6.8 of the $8.8 million is guaranteed. A potential of $2 million extra in dead money every so many years isn't hurting any teams. Plus, there are off sets in his deal, so if he cut aftet year 3 and signs somewhere else for $1.5 million, the Cardinals are on the hook for just $500 if the deal was fully guaranteed.

Doesn't work like that. There is a difference between garanteed money in a contract and base salary becoming garanteed. No off-sets.

 

[PDXChris]

Doesn't work like that. There is a difference between garanteed money in a contract and base salary becoming garanteed. No off-sets.

You sure about that? Unless you're confused about my post alluding what Melton's contract would be if it was fully garanteed.

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[kerouac9]

Doesn't work like that. There is a difference between garanteed money in a contract and base salary becoming garanteed. No off-sets.

He’s right if you wanted to look it up. It’s literally linked above. Salary for the first three years are fully guaranteed; $50k of his year 4 salary is guaranteed.

 

[BACH]

@kerouac9 and @PDXChris.

I might be wrong.

My point was that truly guaranteed money has to be put aside by the team at contract signing and are paid no matter what. That is future signing bonus and future fully guaranteed money. No offset.

If that kind of guaranteed money doesn’t apply to the 2nd round contracts, then I’m wrong. Which I very well could be in this case

 

[ajcardfan]

They should have their contracts completely guaranteed IMO. The potential dead cap money is insignificant as teams well know. It's an ego thing of not giving the players a "win". And no agent wants to short his guy.

 

[oaken1]

They should have their contracts completely guaranteed IMO. The potential dead cap money is insignificant as teams well know. It's an ego thing of not giving the players a "win". And no agent wants to short his guy.

It's the precedent and the fact that you can never take it back.
Salaries will continue to rise. The rookie scale will increase with the next CBA...and sooner or later NFL revenue has to hit critical mass.
When that happens you can't have $400-$500 million fully guaranteed for the next five years.
The league will fold and all these players folks are so supportive of will have to play in Canada or the USFL at a fraction of what they are making right now...let alone what they will be making 15 years from now.
We are already seeing the league farm out contracts to various streaming services because Fox and NBC are not wanting to pay the asking price..... it's only a matter of time before every game is on a pay per view basis.

 

[MadCardDisease]

It's the precedent and the fact that you can never take it back.

Seems like the Texans already set the precedent.