Cardinals steel themselves after offseason attrition

[Perfectionist]

Nice read form boston.com

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...s_steel_themselves_after_offseason_attrition/

Cardinals general manager Rod Graves and coach Ken Whisenhunt made clear their desire to model the franchise after the Steelers and replicate the long-term stability Pittsburgh has vividly established.......

 

[Duckjake]

While Matt Leinart was criticized roundly — and rightfully so — for his approach after losing his job in 2008

I don't believe for a minute that Leinart had any real shot at being the starter for the Cards in 2008. Warner threw for 2,256 yards and 23 TDs in the last 8 games of 2007. I don't care how much coachspeak Whisenhunt throws out about last season not counting there is no way that kind of performance could be ignored.

But it is comforting to see that more than a few people think Leinart's work habits and overall attitude have improved.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I don't believe for a minute that Leinart had any real shot at being the starter for the Cards in 2008. Warner threw for 2,256 yards and 23 TDs in the last 8 games of 2007. I don't care how much coachspeak Whisenhunt throws out about last season not counting there is no way that kind of performance could be ignored.

But it is comforting to see that more than a few people think Leinart's work habits and overall attitude have improved.

I couldn't disagree more.

Whisenhunt did everything possible to make Lienart the starter. It was Warners solid play during the preseason that earned him the starting role. Lienart's poor play didn't help his cause either.

 

[Duckjake]

I couldn't disagree more.

Whisenhunt did everything possible to make Lienart the starter. It was Warners solid play during the preseason that earned him the starting role. Lienart's poor play didn't help his cause either.

There is no way any coach can begin to ignore what Warner did in 2007 and it is why imo Warner only threw 17 passes in 2008 preseason.

As for Leinart's "poor" play, he had one bad game vs Oakland. In the other 3 preseason games Matt was 24-33 with 2 TDs, hardly the kind of numbers that would cost you the starting job if the HC was doing everything he could to make you the starter.

Warner's solid preseason play was to complete 12 passes with no TDs. No, it was Warner's solid play in 2007 when he was only 1 TD pass shy of the franchise record for TD passes in a season despite only starting 11 games, that won him the starting job in 2008.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

There is no way any coach can begin to ignore what Warner did in 2007 and it is why imo Warner only threw 17 passes in 2008 preseason.

As for Leinart's "poor" play, he had one bad game vs Oakland. In the other 3 preseason games Matt was 24-33 with 2 TDs, hardly the kind of numbers that would cost you the starting job if the HC was doing everything he could to make you the starter.

Warner's solid preseason play was to complete 12 passes with no TDs. No, it was Warner's solid play in 2007 when he was only 1 TD pass shy of the franchise record for TD passes in a season despite only starting 11 games, that won him the starting job in 2008.

Oh Jesus thank you for this post! I am all for people having their opinions on Matt and how he will do but A) don't use positive events as Leinart bashing fodder and B) Remember the past properly.

What you stated above DJ is the biggest misconception nationally and among this teams fans. By and large Leinart actually OUTPLAYED Warner in the preseason. He just absolutely stunk it up at the worst possible time in Oakland. Sucks for him but hey it worked out in the end.

I am pretty keen when it comes to reading the tea leaves in the offseason. The quotes by Fitz, Rhodes, and Wiz this early in the offseason are VERY good signs IMO. Lets hope they keep up.

 

[TJ]

Oh Jesus thank you for this post! I am all for people having their opinions on Matt and how he will do but A) don't use positive events as Leinart bashing fodder and B) Remember the past properly.

What you stated above DJ is the biggest misconception nationally and among this teams fans. By and large Leinart actually OUTPLAYED Warner in the preseason. He just absolutely stunk it up at the worst possible time in Oakland. Sucks for him but hey it worked out in the end.

I am pretty keen when it comes to reading the tea leaves in the offseason. The quotes by Fitz, Rhodes, and Wiz this early in the offseason are VERY good signs IMO. Lets hope they keep up.

Which preseason? In 2008, Warner and Leinart were neck and neck up until the Oakland game; however, Leinart outplayed ALL QBs in the 2009 preseason. I remember the Green Bay game, he almost single handedly led the team to a come from behind victory in the 2nd half; throwing for over 300 yards in one half. I admit. it was against scrub defenders who are probably changing tires at Costco right now, but the same goes for the offensive weapons Leinart had at is disposal

But Leinart needs to shake off the stigma of being a "Training Champion" and translate his OTA, TC and preseason success into the regular season and hopefully the playoffs.

 

[Chaz]

I still think Leinart had lingering issues with his shoulder in 2008.

I don't see how anyone could be recovered from a collarbone fracture in less than a year.

 

[MadCardDisease]

There is no way any coach can begin to ignore what Warner did in 2007 and it is why imo Warner only threw 17 passes in 2008 preseason.

As for Leinart's "poor" play, he had one bad game vs Oakland. In the other 3 preseason games Matt was 24-33 with 2 TDs, hardly the kind of numbers that would cost you the starting job if the HC was doing everything he could to make you the starter.

Warner's solid preseason play was to complete 12 passes with no TDs. No, it was Warner's solid play in 2007 when he was only 1 TD pass shy of the franchise record for TD passes in a season despite only starting 11 games, that won him the starting job in 2008.

I never said Whisenhunt ignored what Warner did. In fact at the end of the 2007 season Whisenhunt came out and said "Both guys came in and played extremely well. I also don't believe in a player losing his job due to injury, which is what happened to Matt this year." However it was clear that Lienart was given the starting job when Training camp opened. It was his job to lose.

You suggested that Warner was the surefire starter from day one. That just isn't true.

 

[Covert Rain]

Which preseason? In 2008, Warner and Leinart were neck and neck up until the Oakland game; however, Leinart outplayed ALL QBs in the 2009 preseason. I remember the Green Bay game, he almost single handedly led the team to a come from behind victory in the 2nd half; throwing for over 300 yards in one half. I admit. it was against scrub defenders who are probably changing tires at Costco right now, but the same goes for the offensive weapons Leinart had at is disposal

But Leinart needs to shake off the stigma of being a "Training Champion" and translate his OTA, TC and preseason success into the regular season and hopefully the playoffs.

That is how I remember as well. Warner played really well in 2008 preseason which made it easy to yank Matt after the Oakland game.

 

[49erTroll]

The only time it mattered Lienart underperformed...you can call it a bad game or can can call it what it was.

A player with his starting job on the line playing in the only pre-season game that matters and choking. Lienart had all the weapons Warner had...so whats his excuse?

 

[Duckjake]

That is how I remember as well. Warner played really well in 2008 preseason which made it easy to yank Matt after the Oakland game.

Warner hardly played at all in the 2008 preseason. Did not play in game one. Was 6-9 in game two. 2-4 against Oakland and 4-4 in the last game where Matt was 10-14 for 177 yards. Again Warner played lights out in 2007 and that gave him a step up on Leinart, not throwing a handful of passes in three 2008 preseason games.

There is a good article that sort of addresses what I think was going on in 2008. Leinart was a high profile player and the Cards, for PR and contract reasons, couldn't just come right out and move him to #2 even though it was obvious from 2007 that Warner should be #1.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...d-graves-sends-matt-leinart-back-to-the-bench

 

[JeffGollin]

I liked the article, but am very leery of the "Pittsburgh-West" metaphors tossed around by many members of the out-of-town media looking for simple answers tied up in a nice pretty bow.

How easy for them to figure: "Hmm. Whisenhunt. Grimm. Came from Pittsburgh. Guess they'll make the Cardinals a clone of the old Steelers. With Warner gone, they'll play smashmouth and make Beanie the second coming of Jerome Bettis.

Oh if it were that simple. Certainly Wiz, Russ, Lott & Co. have brought a lot of the Steeler sub-culture to the Valley, but if there's one thing we've learned from Wiz over the past couple of years is his willingness to stray from the tried and true if it will help his team win more games.

Leinart struggled. Warner brought an expanded tool-kit. The Cardinal offense morphed into a Mike Martz pass-happy circus. It worked.

With Warner gone, I don't think this means that Wiz will run the ball 60% of the time. Like any human being, Leinart will bring a fresh set up positives and negatives for Wiz to work with. My guess is that the 2010 Cardinals won't look like Air Warner nor will we look like the Bettis Blasters.

Based on the team's unique set of skills (& weaknesses) the team will resemble (in the words of Monte Python) "something completely different."

I can't wait to see what that will turn out to be.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The only time it mattered Lienart underperformed...you can call it a bad game or can can call it what it was.

A player with his starting job on the line playing in the only pre-season game that matters and choking. Lienart had all the weapons Warner had...so whats his excuse?

I don't know.

Get back to us when the Niners have QB better than anyone of our three.

 

[TJ]

The only time it mattered Lienart underperformed...you can call it a bad game or can can call it what it was.

A player with his starting job on the line playing in the only pre-season game that matters and choking. Lienart had all the weapons Warner had...so whats his excuse?

Warner had many 4+ turnover games throughout his career with the aforementioned weapons (see last season's Panthers game). It just so happened that Leinart's came at the absolute worst time for him.

Im not going into my Leinart soliloquy again, but to be honest, the guy really hasnt had a fair shake and when he was a rookie, he had decent stats given the crappy offense he was in. He still holds the record for most passing yards in a game by a rookie (402).

Id rather take Leinart over Alex Smith any day of the week. At least Leinart was not given an ultimatum to renegotiate his contract or be cut like Smith.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The only time it mattered Lienart underperformed...you can call it a bad game or can can call it what it was.

A player with his starting job on the line playing in the only pre-season game that matters and choking. Lienart had all the weapons Warner had...so whats his excuse?

He had none and gave none. We'll leave the long line of excuses for poor QB play to Coach 'pants on the ground".

 

[earthsci]

Lienart had all the weapons Warner had...so whats his excuse?

So what was Warner's excuse last year when he played poorly against the 9ers (both times), Indianapolis and Carolina. How about the year before when he played poorly against Philadelphia and New England? Or the year before against Tampa Bay? Warner was a great QB and he had bad games, just like Matt did and will.

 

[8ndkorner]

So what was Warner's excuse last year when he played poorly against the 9ers (both times), Indianapolis and Carolina. How about the year before when he played poorly against Philadelphia and New England? Or the year before against Tampa Bay? Warner was a great QB and he had bad games, just like Matt did and will.

Except ML has only had bad games. He doesn't stand out at all. When he was put in during mop up's last season he blew big leads and Wiz has to rush KW back in.

 

[DoTheDew]

Except ML has only had bad games. He doesn't stand out at all. When he was put in during mop up's last season he blew big leads and Wiz has to rush KW back in.

ML had a handful of solid to good games from the middle of his rookie season up until his injury in 2007 and a solid not bad game against the Titans last year. To say he has only had bad games is laughable at best. As for being put in during mop ups, the vast majority of those came in games when we were behind not ahead. As for blown leads in the game we were ahead, I hardly see how it is solely on MLs shoulders when the defense gives up a stretch of points as they did in the Houston game which ML didn't even in play in.

In fact ML coming in and blowing a lead didn't happen once last season. The closest was the Chicago game where he was 0-1 passing with that incompletion being picked off for a TD.

If being 0-1 with an interception is "blowing a big lead" in a game that you end up winning by 20 then there is no hope for ML.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Look Kurt's excuse, for you guys asking "what was Kurt's excuse when he had a bad game", was he was a great quarterback. He was breaking records and leading this team to superbowls. Matt has not proven himself to be a great qb. Therefore, Kurt gets a bye and Matt doesn't. Do you guys really not understand this?

 

[Longcolts]

Really? It's a little tough to prove yourself on the field when you're not on the field. Whiz did Matt no favors when he pulled him after the one pass that was intercepted when we had a substantial lead. Hard to redeem yourself when the head coach does that to you.

 

[Duckjake]

Look Kurt's excuse, for you guys asking "what was Kurt's excuse when he had a bad game", was he was a great quarterback. He was breaking records and leading this team to superbowls. Matt has not proven himself to be a great qb. Therefore, Kurt gets a bye and Matt doesn't. Do you guys really not understand this?

It had been years since Warner had led his team anywhere when he had SEVEN turnovers against the Jets in week 4 of 2008.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Did Matt have a bad game when he set the single game record for passing yards by a rookie QB against Minnesota a few years back? The bottom line is that there isn't a GM in the league who would take Alex Smith over Leinart at this, or any other point in their careers IMO.

 

[Phlegyas]

I remember seeing a theory on here that postulated that Matt might be a bad backup and a good starter. When it came to mopup duty, he stunk. But when he actually started a game, he looked good, even though he didn't have a lick of practice with the starters. I think he'll be a fine starting quarterback. He's very different from the rook we saw years ago. We'll see how he turns out, I guess.