Cardinals lost by 10...10 more punches to the junk for ya

Chopper0080

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A lot has been said about today's game already and on a lot of different threads so I am sorry if I repeat stuff. This is both and easy and difficult 10 things, and it is tough to know where to begin.

1 - Vance Joseph is a terrible schematic football coach. His scheme is like someone read someone else's process, tried to copy it, but doesn't know why it should work. This makes it confusing for players, that makes the play slow, and makes it impossible for him to adjust it because he doesn't really understand why it is supposed to work. This is #1. This is a huge issue and has been from day 1. We had no plan today unlike Carolina's defense. We still can't figure out how to cover a back out of the backfield. Big coaching problem.

2 - This needs it's own number and it had been said before but was on display today...Vance Joseph can't scheme a blitz vs the pass for his life. Numerous times today you could see blitzers come and blockers waiting for them. I could go more into detail,but it gets me fired up. What this means is that the only way we will generate pressure is our players win one-on-one matchups and beat their man.

3 - People are killing Kliff and I couldn't disagree more. Kyler has been bad these past two weeks and he has been poor at intermediate throws all year. The offense had two shots early to get into rhythm and Kyler overthrew Fitz badly and didn't put enough air underneath the ball to Isabella so he could run underneath it. When Kyler has time, he throws it short. When he is under pressure he struggles to climb the pocket and take the short route. He is struggling.

4 - Regardless of how good Isaiah Simmons becomes, we missed on a great opportunity to upgrade our offensive line when we passed on Wirfs, Wills, and Becton. The pass protection wasn't bad today, but every play is a struggle for our guys because they are limited players. Kyler has to get mentally tougher regarding contact and feeling the pressure but we had a shot to add an elite player and we passed on it.

5 - I still feel Kenyan Drake got bigger and now wants to bounce runs outside more. Last year he was awesome at stretching the defense and then putting his foot in the dirt and cutting up field. I don't see it this year. He is still ok, but has not yet shown what made him special last year.

6 - Curtis F'ing Riley. No business on a football field. This is on Vance.

7 - Thank god Haason Reddick reinforced why he is nothing more than a role player. Again...more of, this is on Vance.

8 - I thought our special teams is still playing well despite the early punt. Guys are going hard, swarming to the ball, and tackling well...not a junk punch and I am cheating a bit.

9 - IMO, Murphy was the best CB on the field for the Cardinals today and probably due the zone heavy scheme which is his forte. He tends to stick well to his guy and competes. That said, I don't think we have a zone heavy CB group and both Peterson and Kirkpatrick seem to struggle in these soft zones. I hate to keep pounding on Vance, but this seems to be another instance of not scheming to your personnel.

10 - I personally like Kliff's personality. I like his even nature and I like how he keeps his cool. I love the collaboration. I do wonder if Kliff has that 15% cornholio that coaches need to have to throw down the guantlet. I doubt that we would see it, but I think he will need to pull it out if this team is going to take the next step.
 

slanidrac16

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Winning and losing takes a joint effort. I do have a problem when an opposing team drives down on a 7 minute 12 play drive and scores Is followed by a no huddle 3 and out drive that puts THIS defense right back out on the field.
I also think we’d be better served slowing things down once in a while.
I think we have to take some shots on first down preferably from under center with play/action.
Reduce bubble screens especially early in the game without punching the defense in the gut a couple of times and not stop using Fitz on the bubbles.

The defense is a whole other problem. It seems when we blitz we are playing 10 yards off the wr’s almost conceding the fact we are not going to get to their qb and don’t want to get burned deep. Do one thing good. Either stop the run or stop the pass. Do one! It’s sickening to watch an opponent move us around like a poorly played chess game.

So much blame to go around it’s impossible to pick just one.
 

FB94

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Winning and losing takes a joint effort. I do have a problem when an opposing team drives down on a 7 minute 12 play drive and scores Is followed by a no huddle 3 and out drive that puts THIS defense right back out on the field.
I also think we’d be better served slowing things down once in a while.
I think we have to take some shots on first down preferably from under center with play/action.
Reduce bubble screens especially early in the game without punching the defense in the gut a couple of times and not stop using Fitz on the bubbles.

The defense is a whole other problem. It seems when we blitz we are playing 10 yards off the wr’s almost conceding the fact we are not going to get to their qb and don’t want to get burned deep. Do one thing good. Either stop the run or stop the pass. Do one! It’s sickening to watch an opponent move us around like a poorly played chess game.

So much blame to go around it’s impossible to pick just one.


I like the analogy of a poorly played chess game. That’s exactly how it felt on defense. Vance was always two moves behind
 

BritCard

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I would have no problem replacing Vance with Jeff Rodgers. Rodgers has no background as a defensive coach but he has shown himself to actually be a good coach.

It would have to be in the offseason though so he has the opportunity to put his own system together.
 
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Chopper0080

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Winning and losing takes a joint effort. I do have a problem when an opposing team drives down on a 7 minute 12 play drive and scores Is followed by a no huddle 3 and out drive that puts THIS defense right back out on the field.
I also think we’d be better served slowing things down once in a while.
I think we have to take some shots on first down preferably from under center with play/action.
Reduce bubble screens especially early in the game without punching the defense in the gut a couple of times and not stop using Fitz on the bubbles.

The defense is a whole other problem. It seems when we blitz we are playing 10 yards off the wr’s almost conceding the fact we are not going to get to their qb and don’t want to get burned deep. Do one thing good. Either stop the run or stop the pass. Do one! It’s sickening to watch an opponent move us around like a poorly played chess game.

So much blame to go around it’s impossible to pick just one.
Offensively, at this point, it comes down to Kyler Murray. That is it. The line protects well enough. His weapons are good enough. The play calling is catered to him. He has to execute. We can't get into a rhythm if he is missing throws early. We can't be explosive if he is missing players running wide open. I know this is harsh for a dude who is in his second year, but this is on him.
 

BritCard

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Wasn't Kliff supposed to do this?

Just read this for prime examples of what we are NOT doing. Not scheming to take advantage of our strengths or opponents weaknesses. Read how they changed from zone to power/gap mid game to confuse the Cowboys defense.

They are taking snaps under center and shotgun, they are running bootlegs and read options. They are running they ball from all those including ISO.

They have a balanced, varied game on the ground and in the air whereas and most importantly Stefanski has learned, adapted and got better. We do the exact same thing every pass and run play. We use very little backfield motion. And we don't adapt, we are getting worse.

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Chopper0080

Chopper0080

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Wasn't Kliff supposed to do this?

Just read this for prime examples of what we are NOT doing. Not scheming to take advantage of our strengths or opponents weaknesses. Read how they changed from zone to power/gap mid game to confuse the Cowboys defense.

They are taking snaps under center and shotgun, they are running bootlegs and read options. They are running they ball from all those including ISO.

They have a balanced, varied game on the ground and in the air whereas and most importantly Stefanski has learned, adapted and got better. We do the exact same thing every pass and run play. We use very little backfield motion. And we don't adapt, we are getting worse.

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They are trying to salvage and hide a disappointing QB. This is the Kirk Cousins plan. If that is what we have to do for Kyler, we drafted the wrong QB or at least we don't have a top 12 QB.
 

jmt

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Let’s just accept the fact (again!) that the Cardinals are not a very good football team and Keim, Kliff and Joseph are among those to blame.
 

phillycard

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10 - I personally like Kliff's personality. I like his even nature and I like how he keeps his cool. I love the collaboration. I do wonder if Kliff has that 15% ******* that coaches need to have to throw down the guantlet. I doubt that we would see it, but I think he will need to pull it out if this team is going to take the next step.

Chopper, what personality?? The man is a damn coat rack on the sidelines. He literally brings zero to the team as far as chemistry and intangibles go. He is neck and neck with Gase for the most reactionary coaches in the NFL, and I don't mean that in a good way. Instead of asserting a game plan, and imposing your will on the other team, he sits there and waits for the game to come to him. For all of his so called ingenuity and scheme ability, what has it gotten us?? I'm really trying to be fair and give this man a chance. I didn't want him from the gate, but he's my HC so I have to support him. At the end of the day though I'm thoroughly unimpressed and irked by his game day demeanor. We were disgustingly unprepared to play that game yesterday and that's on him. I swear I don't feel that this is "his" team. He's just a man wearing a Cards long t-shirt who happens to be in charge as far as I'm concerned.

As for your other points, I do largely agree....
 

BullheadCardFan

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Chopper, what personality?? The man is a damn coat rack on the sidelines. He literally brings zero to the team as far as chemistry and intangibles go. He is neck and neck with Gase for the most reactionary coaches in the NFL, and I don't mean that in a good way. Instead of asserting a game plan, and imposing your will on the other team, he sits there and waits for the game to come to him. For all of his so called ingenuity and scheme ability, what has it gotten us?? I'm really trying to be fair and give this man a chance. I didn't want him from the gate, but he's my HC so I have to support him. At the end of the day though I'm thoroughly unimpressed and irked by his game day demeanor. We were disgustingly unprepared to play that game yesterday and that's on him. I swear I don't feel that this is "his" team. He's just a man wearing a Cards long t-shirt who happens to be in charge as far as I'm concerned.

As for your other points, I do largely agree....
Very well put.
 
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Chopper0080

Chopper0080

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Chopper, what personality?? The man is a damn coat rack on the sidelines. He literally brings zero to the team as far as chemistry and intangibles go. He is neck and neck with Gase for the most reactionary coaches in the NFL, and I don't mean that in a good way. Instead of asserting a game plan, and imposing your will on the other team, he sits there and waits for the game to come to him. For all of his so called ingenuity and scheme ability, what has it gotten us?? I'm really trying to be fair and give this man a chance. I didn't want him from the gate, but he's my HC so I have to support him. At the end of the day though I'm thoroughly unimpressed and irked by his game day demeanor. We were disgustingly unprepared to play that game yesterday and that's on him. I swear I don't feel that this is "his" team. He's just a man wearing a Cards long t-shirt who happens to be in charge as far as I'm concerned.

As for your other points, I do largely agree....
I prefer a a guy who keeps an even keel over a Pete Carroll type.
 

GatorAZ

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McVay and Shanahan are/were NFL lifers before they got their shot. Kliff’s B12 offense worked pretty well last year but now there’s a season worth of tape. I always hated the McVay comp.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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Chopper, what personality?? The man is a damn coat rack on the sidelines. He literally brings zero to the team as far as chemistry and intangibles go. He is neck and neck with Gase for the most reactionary coaches in the NFL, and I don't mean that in a good way. Instead of asserting a game plan, and imposing your will on the other team, he sits there and waits for the game to come to him. For all of his so called ingenuity and scheme ability, what has it gotten us?? I'm really trying to be fair and give this man a chance. I didn't want him from the gate, but he's my HC so I have to support him. At the end of the day though I'm thoroughly unimpressed and irked by his game day demeanor. We were disgustingly unprepared to play that game yesterday and that's on him. I swear I don't feel that this is "his" team. He's just a man wearing a Cards long t-shirt who happens to be in charge as far as I'm concerned.

As for your other points, I do largely agree....
Why does he keep going east & west with these WR bubble screens for negative yardage is what I wanna know?
 

BritCard

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Why does he keep going east & west with these WR bubble screens for negative yardage is what I wanna know?

Especially when Kyler can't throw them either. He sailed one to Isabella when they had 3 vs 2 on a screen and the high pass meant the D could get over to cover it.
 

phillycard

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I prefer a a guy who keeps an even keel over a Pete Carroll type.


Same!!! I agree Chopper, but even guys like Pederson, Reid, McVay, McDermott, they seem checked in and engaged. KK's demeanor just irks me to no end. I feel that he thought he could just show up as an NFL head coach and have immediate success and I can't shake that feeling with what I witnessed these last two games. Patricia and Rhule took him to town and back!!
 

slanidrac16

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Hey gang, things are never as good as they seem and things are never as bad as they seem....I hope.
 

wit3card

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I don't know why Kliff does some things, why he has not that kind of energy and demeanor on the sideline but overall he got figured out and has lost a game and came unprepared to the next one.

That is something that he as a HC can't bring.

It starts and ends with him, he has to call Vance out he has to call the players out and he has to call himself out and be better.


The last two games, the Cardinals were a really bad team.
 

BigRedRage

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I personally hate more than two bubble screens per game and only those should happen if you see in trips formation the defense is always playing deep

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FB94

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He is trying to get the defense moving laterally and get Kyler in a rhythm with quick and easy completions.


I get the east / west stuff to tire them out to a point. If it’s not gaining yards more than not, you’ve got to go deep and get them to respect the vertical threat somehow. More pre snap movement or mis direction
 

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