Cardinals at Falcons gameday thread 1-1-2023

PJ1

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Simmons and Collins had virtually no positive impact on this game. Their most memorable play was Collins getting trucked by Allgeier.

I am running out of hope that either of them can be salvaged in a new scheme.
They really aren’t standouts at all. Hardly top players at their positions.
 

Card'em

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Neither has been an impact player, but both have improved yearly. I would guess that the Cardinals will commit to a 5th year for Simmons, and give him a second contract if he continues to improve next year.

I see pretty much the same scenario for Collins. Both should earn second contracts. Whether or not they develop into impact players has yet to be determined.
 

PACardsFan

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Neither has been an impact player, but both have improved yearly. I would guess that the Cardinals will commit to a 5th year for Simmons, and give him a second contract if he continues to improve next year.

I see pretty much the same scenario for Collins. Both should earn second contracts. Whether or not they develop into impact players has yet to be determined.
Exactly why you hire someone like Payton, who brings in one of the best defensive minds (Fangio). Bidwill needs to know if Simmons & Collins are good or great & Fangio can make that determination MUCH, MUCH better than VJ.
 

AZfaninMN

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there is literally ZERO evidence to back this up. And the Cardinals consistently NOT tanking and almost always retaining a losing culture flies in the face of the strength of getting meaningless wins.
You ever wonder why winning teams keep winning? The Steelers were 2-6 this season. Yet, they have a winning culture have won 6 of their last 8 and have a chance to make the playoffs. They have a rookie QB and had one of the worst defenses in the nfl the first 6 weeks of the season. Nothing has changed, but their mentality to win.

Green Bay was left for dead 4 weeks ago. They’ve since rattled off 4 straight and are 1 win away from making the playoffs.

Baltimore, New England, and Seattle are constantly in the hunt come December. Meanwhile, Arizona, Cleveland, Detroit, Washington, and NYJ are consistently picking in the top half of the draft. For all the parity in the league, there are quite a few consistencies
 

TRW

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You ever wonder why winning teams keep winning? The Steelers were 2-6 this season. Yet, they have a winning culture have won 6 of their last 8 and have a chance to make the playoffs. They have a rookie QB and had one of the worst defenses in the nfl the first 6 weeks of the season. Nothing has changed, but their mentality to win.

Green Bay was left for dead 4 weeks ago. They’ve since rattled off 4 straight and are 1 win away from making the playoffs.

Baltimore, New England, and Seattle are constantly in the hunt come December. Meanwhile, Arizona, Cleveland, Detroit, Washington, and NYJ are consistently picking in the top half of the draft. For all the parity in the league, there are quite a few consistencies
All except maybe Green Bay (maybe) have great to exceptional head coaches. And Green Bay has ARod. That's my guess.
 

ajcardfan

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Matthew hasn't been an embarrassment which is a feat for a late round CB
If they play well next week I will be pleased. But the 49ers are a tough cover for the best secondaries with no injury problems.
 

AZfaninMN

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All except maybe Green Bay (maybe) have great to exceptional head coaches. And Green Bay has ARod. That's my guess.
Rodgers has been awful this season(by his standards).

Tomlin was on the hot seat and rumored to be the first Steelers coach fired since 1968. How does a franchise go 54 years without firing a coach?

The ravens have 6 total losing season since moving to Baltimore and 3 came in their first 3 seasons. Coaching could be it, but they also have one of the best front offices in the league and constantly build a winning product.

Seattle and New England could have more to do with coaching rather than winning culture since before their current regime was average at best.

How is it that these winning franchises can find all these great coaches, while losing franchises can’t find one? I think winning culture is real, but instead we’ll tank for Jalen Carter then complain when he isn’t the difference maker we thought.
 

Cheesebeef

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No hope allowed.....
Nah… as usual, you paint with a wide brush, trying to make me the bad guy. It’s stupid at this point, but I’ll indulge. Hope with our 2nd round TE after yesterday’s performance I understand. He had a big game and has shown the ability to take a tough hit and hold on to the ball the last couple weeks.

False hope is stupid. Which is what Hamilton being a legit third corner was. And I think it’s similarly false hope to tale anything away from a CB who didn’t crap himself against the backup for an awful team and played all of the snaps merely because we literally don’t have any one else to put out there.

So, yeah… hope based on something tangible I get. Hope based on next to nothing is a lot of what got this team into the current mess they’re in.
 

Krangodnzr

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Nah… as usual, you paint with a wide brush, trying to make me the bad guy. It’s stupid at this point, but I’ll indulge. Hope with our 2nd round TE after yesterday’s performance I understand. He had a big game and has shown the ability to take a tough hit and hold on to the ball the last couple weeks.

False hope is stupid. Which is what Hamilton being a legit third corner was. And I think it’s similarly false hope to tale anything away from a CB who didn’t crap himself against the backup for an awful team and played all of the snaps merely because we literally don’t have any one else to put out there.

So, yeah… hope based on something tangible I get. Hope based on next to nothing is a lot of what got this team into the current mess they’re in.
Hamilton has been good.

He's giving up an 82 QB Rating.
 

Stout

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You ever wonder why winning teams keep winning? The Steelers were 2-6 this season. Yet, they have a winning culture have won 6 of their last 8 and have a chance to make the playoffs. They have a rookie QB and had one of the worst defenses in the nfl the first 6 weeks of the season. Nothing has changed, but their mentality to win.

Green Bay was left for dead 4 weeks ago. They’ve since rattled off 4 straight and are 1 win away from making the playoffs.

Baltimore, New England, and Seattle are constantly in the hunt come December. Meanwhile, Arizona, Cleveland, Detroit, Washington, and NYJ are consistently picking in the top half of the draft. For all the parity in the league, there are quite a few consistencies
Uh, nothing has changed except getting back from injury arguably the best defensive player in the league and a stretch of playing perhaps the easiest schedule in the league. That sure cures a lot of ills lol

Overall, I agree with your point about winning cultures. That's not going to make me root for us to beat the Whiners for some reason, though.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Dumb luck built a dynasty in New England. We’re not a top 3 pick away from being Super Bowl contenders. If we win a game or 2 when it’s meaningless we drop a whole 2-3 spots. We’re not talking about falling out of the top 10. This draft has 3 QBs taken in the top 10 picks. If we identify a guy we like, he’ll most likely be there at 3, 4, or 5.



How many titles have teams won by tanking? Some of the best players in the nfl today weren’t the first one taken off the board at their position.
QB- Mahomes
RB- Derrick Henry
WR- Justin Jefferson
TE- Travis Kelce
DT- Chris Jones
OLB- T.J. Watt
ILB- Fred Warner
S- Budda

Just to name a few.

Tanking creates a losing culture for the players that stay with the team and nets us a player that we probably could still get at 5.
I’m not talking about purposefully losing. Players don’t do that. I’m talking about as a fan hoping they lose, which has ZERO impact on the mentality of the franchise.

Also this: no team drafting in the top 5 is usually that draft pick away from winning a Super Bowl (terribke argument), but the players drafted with those higher picks damn skippy have an impact when those teams do later get good enough to be perennial playoff teams.

We will just have to end the conversation here because you clearly don’t get the logic.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Just going to agree to disagree on this forever. As a fan, I will always root for my team to win EVERY game. Once the dust settles you see where you draft and move forward. Just not the type of person who roots for my team to lose regardless of a draft position benefit. It's not a tough concept, Joel. ;)
I get it. You’re seeking immediate gratification at the expense of building for long term greater success due to emotional reasons. You’re right, it’s not a tough concept.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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You ever wonder why winning teams keep winning? The Steelers were 2-6 this season. Yet, they have a winning culture have won 6 of their last 8 and have a chance to make the playoffs. They have a rookie QB and had one of the worst defenses in the nfl the first 6 weeks of the season. Nothing has changed, but their mentality to win.

Green Bay was left for dead 4 weeks ago. They’ve since rattled off 4 straight and are 1 win away from making the playoffs.

Baltimore, New England, and Seattle are constantly in the hunt come December. Meanwhile, Arizona, Cleveland, Detroit, Washington, and NYJ are consistently picking in the top half of the draft. For all the parity in the league, there are quite a few consistencies
Hmm those teams have a chance at the playoffs. The cardinals do not. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEANINGFUL GAMES AND MEANINGLESS GAMES. We are talking about the latter. But by all means move the goalposts in an attempt to win a lost argument.
 

Krangodnzr

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Yeah Hamilton was been below average. Shocking for a journeyman.
Except that's not what the counting stats say at all. Opinions aren't equal to actual stats. I'm pretty certain those saying Hamilton "sucked" said it before the season and are just trying to confirm their biases even though Hamilton has given up ONE TD on the season and a below average passer rating when targeted.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Hamilton has been good.

He's giving up an 82 QB Rating.
Therein lies the issue with placing your entire argument on a stat that doesn’t indicate game situation or take into account run game. Hamilton wasn’t atrocious this year but I’d hardly call him good. If I recall correctly both Wilson’s and Murphy’s against rating were good too. Our defense must’ve been freaking awesome as we consistently shut down the pass with our corners allowing everyone else to shut down the run. What? Our defense wasn’t that good? How can that be?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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They should've been getting more snaps a long time ago.
It makes no sense to me. Particularly in the last game where you’re not scrambling for a playoff spot. I get it, the coaches on a hot seat need the win for their careers. Good coaches with secure positions play kids to prepare them for bigger roles. But with the chance our coaching staff is gone next year they have zero reason to prep these kids for the next regime.
 

Krangodnzr

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Therein lies the issue with placing your entire argument on a stat that doesn’t indicate game situation or take into account run game. Hamilton wasn’t atrocious this year but I’d hardly call him good. If I recall correctly both Wilson’s and Murphy’s against rating were good too. Our defense must’ve been freaking awesome as we consistently shut down the pass with our corners allowing everyone else to shut down the run. What? Our defense wasn’t that good? How can that be?
The Cardinals AREN'T getting beaten one on one by top receivers.
 

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