Beware the 4th Win

Stout

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Dennis Green was on record saying he would have picked Fitz with the first pick or the third pick. He'd have been the pick regardless, so we lost nothing. The Chargers got Rivers and 3 picks but never won anything while the Giants won two titles with Manning, so yeah huge trade at number one. :rolleyes:
Or he would have traded down and still drafted Fitz. That said, I love that play.
 

Totally_Red

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I want us to win every game. That said, the disappointment at losing would be greatly diminished by the prospect of drafting MHJ. I salivate at the prospect of getting him every time I hear an expert say he is a once every 10 years generational talent.
 

WisconsinCard

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Different mindsets, for sure. I was one of those in the stands cheering on Josh McCown and the Cards as we beat Minnesota at SDS and knocked them out of the playoffs in the final game of the season before we drafted Larry.

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As I said, win games, let the season end, and see where you draft. I couldn't care less about the draft right now. I want us to win our remaining games. Maybe we will, maybe we won't, but I am not wanting my team to lose on any Sunday.
I flew the whole family down for that game, and the four of us were rooting for a win as well. We enjoyed it so much watching all those big fans crying as the left SDS that day. So much fun.

Number 1 pick doesn't guarantee success either. How often is the best player taken at 1 or even 2?
 

Crimson Warrior

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this is so hard for me because generally I'm with @Brian in Mesa on the issue of winning or losing.

On one hand, we desparatley need a WR1, and MJH appears to to be franchise-altering type player.

But our players are putting the physical well being on the line every Sunday, and our coaches coach like don't give a damn if we draft at 3 or 8 or 25. Those are real people, who wear the redbird on their uniform, fighting for the team I love. I can't stand to see their efforts result in defeat.

No. Our future success does not hinge only on if we're able to draft at #3. There are a thousand other factors that will decide the fate of the team in 2024 and beyond.

I vote 4-0, and to send those arrogant 49er fans packing out of SFS with their tails between their legs.
 
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Krangodnzr

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this is so hard for me because generally I'm with @Brian in Mesa on the issue of winning or losing.

On one hand, we desparatley need a WR1, and MJH appears to to be franchise-altering type player.

But our players are putting the physical well being on the line every Sunday, and our coaches coach like don't give a damn if we draft at 3 or 8 or 25. Those are real people, who wear the redbird on their uniform, fighting for the team I love. I can't stand to see their efforts result in defeat.

No. Our future success does not hinge only on if we're able to draft at #3. There are a thousand other factors that will decide the fate of the team in 2024 and beyond.

I vote 4-0, and to send those arrogant 49er fans packing out of SFS with their tails between their legs.
There are going to be other really good players in this draft. Marvin Harrison Jr appears to be a bear lock, but Rome Odunze and Malik Nabers also have a pretty strong resume to be NFL #1 WRs.

All is not lost if the Cardinals win a game or two more and end up with Malik Nabers.
 

BACH

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I get your position. I just do not Think it as Big a problem as you make it out to be.
The risk is not #3 to #8. Looking at the schedule at least 2 of the 4 teams Will have more wins. So the risk is #3 to Worst case #6.

Our schedule only have one winnable game vs. the Bears and the Bears already own Carolina’s #1 and They need to showcase Fields and evaluate players for their rebuilt. They are not tanking. The rest of our opponents all are in play for playoffs or #1 seed and homefield in the playoffs to play for.

I honestly Think it’s more realistic that the pats win against the jets than We win and then We move back to #2.
 

Brian in Mesa

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I flew the whole family down for that game, and the four of us were rooting for a win as well. We enjoyed it so much watching all those big fans crying as the left SDS that day. So much fun.

Number 1 pick doesn't guarantee success either. How often is the best player taken at 1 or even 2?
So true. Many top teams have late round and undrafted offensive linemen, for example. Our best QB since we’ve been in Arizona was undrafted.
 

speedy

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If we win out, do we keep kyler?

In one of my jobs, the owner is currently in tank mode. For whatever reason, he’s decided to tank the business.

His problem is I play to win. Being a scrub part of a losing organization doesn’t keep you in the league- it hurts your name.

I think it is possible (frankly, likely) an organization can play to loose (I wouldn’t put it past little Mikey b, the puss, to pull some ish like this).

But kyler? Perhaps he wants out bad enough/has a handshake deal worked out somewhere, but I don’t see systemic “tanking” as a plausible thing.

These boys have to much riding to waste a year of bs on an otherwise short career (average time in the league can’t be more than 3 years).

Do I think Mikey wants to tank?? Does howdy doody have wooden balls??

Of course he does- as a “business” guy, he should be cutting payroll as much as possible.

But if I’m a >3yr guy, up yours, I’m playing to win.
 

ajcardfan

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Last week proved no one is tanking.

We aren't getting Caleb Williams.

Personally, I think Drake Maye is a poor man's Justin Herbert. Not worth tanking AND gutting the roster even more to absorb the hit for getting rid of Murray. Especially for a kid who every time he played someone good hit about 50% of his passes this year.

Daniels is more intriguing as a talent but the bust risk might be even higher.

Ideally, Murray is at least average to solid the rest of the season. Build the roster up around him. If he sucks next year, then go for a new QB who will then start in a better situation talent wise than any rookie could get this year.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I could never root for my favorite team to lose on purpose. Losers lack a back bone. Losers give up whenever the going gets tough. It's easy to be a Loser. Once you are OK with Losing you can't stop Losing.

Monti was hired to make this team better. It shouldn't matter whether he is picking 3rd or 7th in the draft. Last year the Texans won the last game of the season which knocked them out of the #1 overall pick. Did losing out on the #1 pick mess up their season in 2023? Nope! A solid draft (that didn't include the #1 overall pick) and strong coaching have turned that franchise around.
Guess what? You root for a loser. Maybe it’s time to face some truths.
 

cheesebeef

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I could never root for my favorite team to lose on purpose. Losers lack a back bone. Losers give up whenever the going gets tough. It's easy to be a Loser. Once you are OK with Losing you can't stop Losing.

Monti was hired to make this team better. It shouldn't matter whether he is picking 3rd or 7th in the draft. Last year the Texans won the last game of the season which knocked them out of the #1 overall pick. Did losing out on the #1 pick mess up their season in 2023? Nope! A solid draft (that didn't include the #1 overall pick) and strong coaching have turned that franchise around.
Uh, hate to break this news to you 13 weeks into a 3-10 season, where we all believe this team is paper thin talent-wise everywhere… but this entire team’s off-season plan was “It’s okay to be a loser.”
 

GatorAZ

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Thank God we lost 12 games instead of 11 in 03’ so we could end up with Fitz. We could’ve had Roy Williams or Kellen Winslow had we won another game down the stretch for morale!
 

oaken1

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this is so hard for me because generally I'm with @Brian in Mesa on the issue of winning or losing.

On one hand, we desparatley need a WR1, and MJH appears to to be franchise-altering type player.

But our players are putting the physical well being on the line every Sunday, and our coaches coach like don't give a damn if we draft at 3 or 8 or 25. Those are real people, who wear the redbird on their uniform, fighting for the team I love. I can't stand to see their efforts result in defeat.

No. Our future success does not hinge only on if we're able to draft at #3. There are a thousand other factors that will decide the fate of the team in 2024 and beyond.

I vote 4-0, and to send those arrogant 49er fans packing out of SFS with their tails between their legs.
Well said. While I really want Harrison...it ain't gonna hurt my feelings if we get Nabers or Odunze...

While it would be a bummer sorta... I wouldn't hate it if we went OT and DT in round 1... and Monti just might...
But we need to address WR in a big way
 

Stout

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Well said. While I really want Harrison...it ain't gonna hurt my feelings if we get Nabers or Odunze...

While it would be a bummer sorta... I wouldn't hate it if we went OT and DT in round 1... and Monti just might...
But we need to address WR in a big way
See the post right above this one. It might be more than just a "bummer sorta" if we win one meaningless game.
 

AZCB34

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Last week proved no one is tanking.

We aren't getting Caleb Williams.

Personally, I think Drake Maye is a poor man's Justin Herbert. Not worth tanking AND gutting the roster even more to absorb the hit for getting rid of Murray. Especially for a kid who every time he played someone good hit about 50% of his passes this year.

Daniels is more intriguing as a talent but the bust risk might be even higher.

Ideally, Murray is at least average to solid the rest of the season. Build the roster up around him. If he sucks next year, then go for a new QB who will then start in a better situation talent wise than any rookie could get this year.
None of the players, none of the coaches were ever tanking this season.
 

cardpa

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If they don't win another game I am okay with it simply for one reason, a higher draft position gives the team a better chance to work some trades, move around in the draft and end up with more picks than they presently have.
 

Stout

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If they don't win another game I am okay with it simply for one reason, a higher draft position gives the team a better chance to work some trades, move around in the draft and end up with more picks than they presently have.
Ah, the famous Draft Picks. How many games has that player won again?
 

MrYeahBut

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Totally wimpy on my part, but I agree with every post in this thread. Both ways.. Win or not win. Each has its own advantage/disadvantage

I will say, I absolutely hate the Cards losing constantly
 

oaken1

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See the post right above this one. It might be more than just a "bummer sorta" if we win one meaningless game.
means nothing. every year there is hype and usually more than 1 guy. every year some guys live up to it, some guys dont, and some dude from out of nowhere blows the league away.
the tape looks good right now but its just as likely that when looking back 20 years from now Harrison will have had a pedestrian career while some dude from the 4th round is headed to Canton


in regards to the post you referenced...everybody knew winslow was a headcase
 

Stout

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means nothing. every year there is hype and usually more than 1 guy. every year some guys live up to it, some guys dont, and some dude from out of nowhere blows the league away.
the tape looks good right now but its just as likely that when looking back 20 years from now Harrison will have had a pedestrian career while some dude from the 4th round is headed to Canton


in regards to the post you referenced...everybody knew winslow was a headcase
Right. Missing on a Fitz for a bustola would mean nothing. Gotcha.
 

oaken1

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Right. Missing on a Fitz for a bustola would mean nothing. Gotcha.
You can ugly spin it however you want. But we all know the top 10 picks in the draft are rarely the 10 best players from that draft a decade later.
I'm in on Harrison. But the simplest of truths is that at this point we don't know if he is another Fitz or another Bryant Johnson.

If you have a way of knowing...then kindly hook a brother up with next week's powerball numbers please
 
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