Better football career: Isaiah Simmons or Zaven Collins?

Stout

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With Vance Joseph? Collins. Not that he'll be great, or even a smidge above average. VJ just will never be able to use Simmons. With the proper DC, Simmons can be a beast. Unfortunately, he has not been that player that can fit in any scheme or work with any coach. He's not the player I and others thought we were getting.
 

DVontel

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With Vance Joseph? Collins. Not that he'll be great, or even a smidge above average. VJ just will never be able to use Simmons. With the proper DC, Simmons can be a beast. Unfortunately, he has not been that player that can fit in any scheme or work with any coach. He's not the player I and others thought we were getting.
I don’t get why Zaven doesn’t get the same Vance excuse/reason that Isaiah does.
 

Stout

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I don’t get why Zaven doesn’t get the same Vance excuse/reason that Isaiah does.
To an extent, I'd say he does. Vance is a big reason why he didn't flourish last season, but I think also the position change and having too much thrust on him early kaiboshed him too. He's also not being asked to do as much as Simmons, it seems. But, yeah, VJ hasn't helped him either.
 

Chopper0080

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I don’t get why Zaven doesn’t get the same Vance excuse/reason that Isaiah does.
He does with me. I just think it is a bit easier for him because he player off-ball LB in the 3-3 in college. Not perfect comp but more of a read and react system than Simmons.
 

DaHilg

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To an extent, I'd say he does. Vance is a big reason why he didn't flourish last season, but I think also the position change and having too much thrust on him early kaiboshed him too. He's also not being asked to do as much as Simmons, it seems. But, yeah, VJ hasn't helped him either.

…….
Just another reason I’d love to see a change in coaching regime across the board. We have 3 first round picks that we have no idea how good or how bad they really are because of inept coaching. Far easier to replace coaches than talent especially ****** coaches
 
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DaHilg

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Absolutely NO ONE would be clamoring for ANY of our coaches in the NFL if we fired the whole staff tomorrow. There would be teams lining up with inquiries to these players tomorrow if they were put on the trade block, cut etc. Various levels of offers? Yes… but absolutely no shortage of teams.
 

AZCB34

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Absolutely NO ONE would be clamoring for ANY of our coaches in the NFL if we fired the whole staff tomorrow. There would be teams lining up with inquiries to these players tomorrow if they were put on the trade block, cut etc. Various levels of offers? Yes… but absolutely no shortage of teams.
I don’t think you are right about the coaches. Many would land gigs in the NFL I would think simply due to the old boys network that exists.
 

AZCB34

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Personally, I wonder if Simmons is really all that good of a player. Maybe a new scheme would do the trick but I’m not sure I buy it.

Collins looks better to me but I don’t pretend to be a master talent evaluator.
 

DaHilg

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I don’t think you are right about the coaches. Many would land gigs in the NFL I would think simply due to the old boys network that exists.
I didn’t say they wouldn’t… but it may be as an assistant or position coach at best.
 

Snakester

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I think both are coming along and getting better. Simmons should be rushing the passer more with his speed and length. I know Simmons has no business covering wide receivers like he’s been doing.
 

TJ

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Simmons is soft or lazy but maybe both

Lazy people are most definitely able to run a 4.3 40. Lazy people are most definitely able to learn three or more positions on defense. Soft people are most definitely told to stop playing too aggressively thru the whistle….
 

pemory09

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Personally, I wonder if Simmons is really all that good of a player. Maybe a new scheme would do the trick but I’m not sure I buy it.

Collins looks better to me but I don’t pretend to be a master talent evaluator.
You’re not a “master talent evaluator” AZBC? How about that…you have something in common with our GM. :lol:

#KEIMCITY
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I don’t get why Zaven doesn’t get the same Vance excuse/reason that Isaiah does.
Zaven hasn’t shown us the flash plays that has Simmons. And zaven isn’t deployed in as many different ways as is simmons. Just different situations. Doesn’t mean either is excelling.
 

DVontel

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Zaven hasn’t shown us the flash plays that has Simmons. And zaven isn’t deployed in as many different ways as is simmons. Just different situations. Doesn’t mean either is excelling.
Simmons’ bad plays seem stick much worse & more often than Zaven’s. I don’t remember Zaven routinely getting embarrassed in man-coverage like Simmons. Zaven’s flash plays might not be there yet, but you’re not going to see him constantly getting embarrassed like Simmons.

Wouldn’t shock me by next year that Zaven becomes good while Simmons remains….the same.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Simmons’ bad plays seem stick much worse & more often than Zaven’s. I don’t remember Zaven routinely getting embarrassed in man-coverage like Simmons. Zaven’s flash plays might not be there yet, but you’re not going to see him constantly getting embarrassed like Simmons.

Wouldn’t shock me by next year that Zaven becomes good while Simmons remains….the same.
I think that’s because zaven isn’t tasked with covering receivers. I can’t recall seeing that. I’ve seen him on backs and tightends but not receivers.
 

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