Best Duo Under 25?

[Yuma]

Murray is still younger than Book by a few months and the age different doesn’t really affect my view of Ayton/Jokic... Jokic 3 years ago put up Ayton’s numbers with a higher TS% (Ayton’s efficiency is all ppl talk about) plus nearly 5 assists.

As for Murray I like him more as a #2 than I do Booker as a #1 but he’ll never be on Book’s level. Embiid’s injury history put the Nuggets at #1 comfortably and they have more young talent than just those two.

Right now I have Booker > Murray, but Jokic>Ayton. So kind of a wash, with the edge to Murray/Jokic right now because Jokic is seriously maybe the best Center in the game right now, arguably.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Right now I have Booker > Murray, but Jokic>Ayton. So kind of a wash, with the edge to Murray/Jokic right now because Jokic is seriously maybe the best Center in the game right now, arguably.

At the moment Booker ~>Murray and Jokic >>>Ayton. So its not really close to a wash. But its all opinion.

But Ayton should improve a lot.

 

[Hoop Head]

Right now I have Booker > Murray, but Jokic>Ayton. So kind of a wash, with the edge to Murray/Jokic right now because Jokic is seriously maybe the best Center in the game right now, arguably.

It's weird, I don't think Jokic is the best Center in the game right now but I do think he is the best big, if that makes sense. Embiid is the best Center, since he ticks all of the boxes you want a Center to tick as far as being a capable rim protector, very good rebounder, and inside force. Jokic is almost like a 7 foot tall version of Doncic that can shoot better, maybe a perfect mix of Doncic and Porzingis. He just doesn't play enough inside for me to say he's the best Center in the game. I think what it comes down to though is building the right team around him. It's taken Denver a little bit of time to do that and they're now seeing the benefit of that. Where as you could take a Center like Embiid, and hopefully Ayton in time, and plug them in as a Center on virtually any team and they'll get theirs.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Centers are relevant today. No one is saying they aren't.

However, centers that can shoot, defend, pass and rebound are even more valuable.

Hopefully that is what the Suns have in Ayton... a multifaceted center.

I don't think anyone is directly stating centers aren't relevant, but they are alluding to the position as being less important.

The difference right now, is that very few centers are beasts that just destroy people in the paint. Embiid does. KAT does to a much lesser extent. That's what Ayton needs to become. As others have pointed out, the center who shoots the three should never be as valuable as the center that can shoot 60%+ near the rim.

If Ayton improves marginally as a rebounder, but can become a force at the rim, the Suns will contend for a long time because few other players have that skill in the modern NBA.

I'd take Ayton over Jokic if that's what he becomes.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think anyone is directly stating centers aren't relevant, but they are alluding to the position as being less important.

The difference right now, is that very few centers are beasts that just destroy people in the paint. Embiid does. KAT does to a much lesser extent. That's what Ayton needs to become. As others have pointed out, the center who shoots the three should never be as valuable as the center that can shoot 60%+ near the rim.

If Ayton improves marginally as a rebounder, but can become a force at the rim, the Suns will contend for a long time because few other players have that skill in the modern NBA.

I'd take Ayton over Jokic if that's what he becomes.

I think centers are every bit as relevant today as they have always been but it's hard to find centers that are skilled and dominant at the same time. There is a shortage of such players which has opened the door for such players as Draymond Green to play center.

The best center to play the game in my opinion was Kareem and he was not an incredible hulk. I bet if he were playing today he would add a 3 point shot to his arsenal.

 

[BC867]

I think centers are every bit as relevant today as they have always been but it's hard to find centers that are skilled and dominant at the same time. There is a shortage of such players which has opened the door for such players as Draymond Green to play center.

The best center to play the game in my opinion was Kareem and he was not an incredible hulk. I bet if he were playing today he would add a 3 point shot to his arsenal.

A sky hook from 23 feet out. Hmmm.

 

[Yuma]

At the moment Booker ~>Murray and Jokic >>>Ayton. So its not really close to a wash. But its all opinion.

But Ayton should improve a lot.

I was hoping Ayton will narrow that gap in the upcoming season. I also think we will see a little boost in efficiency with Booker now that he has someone that can set him up.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I was hoping Ayton will narrow that gap in the upcoming season. I also think we will see a little boost in efficiency with Booker now that he has someone that can set him up.

The gap is closer to the size of the pacific ocean right now as Jokic is a top 5 MVP candidate at this point.

 

[Covert Rain]

The gap is closer to the size of the pacific ocean right now as Jokic is a top 5 MVP candidate at this point.

Can you clarify? Do you mean in terms of where Ayton is now compared to someone like Shaq in his prime or HOF carrer? If so, that is a given since he is a rookie.

However, Ayton is the 3rd quickest player to reach 1000 points for the Suns in a single season. He scored in double digits in all but 10 games. He had 39 double doubles. He had the highest efficiency rating of all rookies.

Sure you can't compare him NOW but your comparison is way over the top.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Can you clarify? Do you mean in terms of where Ayton is now compared to someone like Shaq in his prime or HOF carrer? If so, that is a given since he is a rookie.

However, Ayton is the 3rd quickest player to reach 1000 points for the Suns in a single season. He scored in double digits in all but 10 games. He had 39 double doubles. He had the highest efficiency rating of all rookies.

Sure you can't compare him NOW but your comparison is way over the top.

Ayton (3 years younger) is nowhere near the player Nikola Jokic is now. And neither are near Shaq. Shaq is easily a top 15 player all time and maybe closer to 10 than 15.

Could Ayton be Jokic in 3 years. Maybe. Both aren't sturdy defenders, but Jokic may be the best passing big man in the history of the NBA when all is said and done.

Will Ayton ever finish top 4 in the MVP voting? Maybe. I do have hope.