Best Duo Under 25?

Discussion in 'Phoenix Suns' started by devilalum, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    Some interesting stats. There are only 2 players in the NBA that make at least 1 three per game from the left corner (Duval, Edwards). There are none from the right corner 3 (Tucker is the closest at .9). Above the break 3's, Harden, Curry, Hunter (all above 4 per game) and George and Walker (above 3). The rest of the league is under that.

    So it's not just the FG% that matters it's how many per game that player averages as well. Not sure very many guys in the entire NBA would be in that criteria. If you have a generational center or pf it is still a big deal IMO.

    Also, completely agree that you cannot compare Booker/Ayton to those two guys.
     
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  2. itlnsunsfan

    itlnsunsfan Registered

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    Your math is wrong. 60% from 2 is equivalent to 40% from 3.

    6 x 2 = 12

    4 x 3 = 12
     
  3. Hoop Head

    Hoop Head Señor Caca Cabeza Contributor

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    You're ignoring fouls entirely with your little theory. More fouls are drawn by taking shots in the paint than by shooting 3's. That gives those who shoot inside a better chance at converting And-1's. In addition to that, they'll get FT attempts on missed shots that don't actually count against their shooting percentage. Most importantly though, it can cause opponents to sit players because of foul trouble so they're not able to impact the game in any way. So yes, you can be less efficient shooting 3's and keep the game close but there is a reason teams don't only shoot 3's. There are many more aspects to the game than simply bombing 3's.
     
  4. itlnsunsfan

    itlnsunsfan Registered

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    To build off this, unless you're Curry or Harden, a guarded 3 point attempt is much more difficult to get off than dumping the ball down to your big and telling him to go to work. Often, the other team will have to double, which leads to....an open 3 point attempt. The game is nuanced and any strategy can be countered. However, the closest thing I've witnessed to unstoppable is Shaq in the post. I've seen him dunk with the entire opposing team in the paint, carrying three of them on the way up. The single, funniest thing I've seen in basketball is the outcome of Chris Dudley attempting to guard Shaq down low one on one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  5. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Great posts from everyone defending how good Shaq would be today or how centers are still very relevant today.

    This is my opinion, and admittedly, I could be dead wrong....but I think that even with the rule changes, if a dominant center was playing today, he would still automatically be a top five player.

    I just don't think that KAT and the other top centers are really all that good. Patrick Ewing was like the 5th best center of his generation and he would destroy the kids playing today. Rudy Gobert would be a nice, 7th best center back then.

    That's why the Ayton pick wasn't just about who was the best player immediately, it's what Ayton can become. Put on about 20 lbs of muscle and learn to throw it around more, and the kid is going to be great.

    Booker is being held back by his own offensive inefficiency, but the reason for that has largely been supporting cast. Booker can still play better, and I think we're going to see his best season yet this year.
     
  6. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    I'm not sure why I'm on the other side other except you can't fix shooting (an outside shot and free throws).

    Shaq could be great in his own way but that does not take away that he had weaknesses in his game that could be exploited.

    I do think Kareem could have adapted his game to the modern NBA.
     
  7. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    Centers are relevant today. No one is saying they aren't.

    However, centers that can shoot, defend, pass and rebound are even more valuable.

    Hopefully that is what the Suns have in Ayton... a multifaceted center.
     
  8. Raindog

    Raindog Registered

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    Honestly, I think Gobert would have been middle of the pack at best in that generation, or even a bit less than that. He compares mostly to Mutumbo, who granted is in the HOF, but was always considered something of a liability on offense during his playing days. And he was a much better rebounder than Gobert ever will be.
     
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  9. Dr. Jones

    Dr. Jones Has No Time For Love

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    And most centers make them at a lesser rate than guards. And they take two free shots.

    The game has changed my friends. Mikan, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Parrish, Shaq, Duncan, Jokic.

    If you don't defend like at a masters level now, and shoot the rock with some accuracy from the arc, you will be looking at the guards on your squad and wondering why the coach is telling them not to pass it to you. And why they sub you out in the last 2 minutes of the game. You are a liability. Simple as that.
     
  10. Carolinacacti

    Carolinacacti Registered

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    Hell I liked Camby and he was a pole. But he had talent both ways and would be great today
     
  11. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    Mutombo was better than Gobert.

    Gobert is a very limited player, but he is great on defense.
     
  12. Krangthebrain

    Krangthebrain Captain of Team Murray

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    If you shot 65% at the rim, its statistical still the best shot.

    The NBA became guard oriented because of rule changes AND a lack of center talent for about a decade.

    My dream scenario is that Ayton becomes dominant and the Suns reverse some of the offensive trends we see.
     
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  13. slinslin

    slinslin Welcome to Amareca

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    I mean he never bulked up that much intentionally.
     
  14. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    My dream for Ayton is can become a complete player who can play in any style of play, who can dominate inside, shoot from outside, rebound, hit his free throws and play defense. That's the whole point of dreaming.
     
  15. GatorAZ

    GatorAZ Formerly known as GatorHater

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    Murray is still younger than Book by a few months and the age different doesn’t really affect my view of Ayton/Jokic... Jokic 3 years ago put up Ayton’s numbers with a higher TS% (Ayton’s efficiency is all ppl talk about) plus nearly 5 assists.

    As for Murray I like him more as a #2 than I do Booker as a #1 but he’ll never be on Book’s level. Embiid’s injury history put the Nuggets at #1 comfortably and they have more young talent than just those two.
     

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