Barkley & Colangelo to meet...

[elindholm]

Do you guys realize how good Hakeem and Clyde were back then?

Olajuwon was excellent. Really, really good. He was amazing. Didn't he win the MVP in '94?

I always felt Drexler was severely overrated, including when he was in Portland. I remember in the '92 Finals when the TV hype said it was Jordan vs. Drexler, "the two best players in the game." What a total crock. Drexler was a very good player, but never was he one of the top three (or probably even five) players in the league.

The team with the best player does not have to win. Olajuwon was better than Barkley, but I think the Suns' supporting cast was better than Houston's. I can't prove it, but it's my opinion.

 

[elindholm]

Phoenix had no answer for the Dream

The problem with this kind of analysis is that is always applied in hindsight. If Person had made that three at the buzzer, we'd be saying, "Houston had no answer for KJ's penetration."

In fact both teams had unstoppable forces, but the Rockets just played smarter.

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm sorry, but Charles Barkley is not even one of the top five power forwards in the game. If he played now there are at least 3 power forwards better than him. Barkley might be one of the top five offensive power forwards of all time, but there are two ends on that basketball court.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

If he played now there are at least 3 power forwards better than him.

Wow! I wouldn't go that far. Who are your three?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirStefan32

But again, I do see what you are trying to say. I just couldn't agree with Chaps statement that the Suns were a flat out better team.

As everyone else has been saying, just because the Rockets had Hakeem and an overrated Clyde Drexler, doesn't make them a better TEAM. Yes, Hakeem was awesome--at that time the best center in the league.

But overall, the Suns were better. Overall, I think they were slightly better than the Bulls. But the Bulls had Michael Jordan and they had experience, and there is no substituting for that. But pound for pound, the Suns were the best team in the NBA.

 

[Chaz]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
If he played now there are at least 3 power forwards better than him. Barkley might be one of the top five offensive power forwards of all time, but there are two ends on that basketball court.

Rebounds are part of defense so IMO Barkley was above average on that end.

As far as three players better I can only think of two playing today that are close in what they do for their teams. KG and TD

 

[SirStefan32]

I can only remember three power forwards close to Chuck- Karl Malone, James Worthy and Tim Duncan. I agree that Chuck was not the greatest defender, but as somebody said, rebounding is a part of defense. Also, Barkley had one big problem on the defensive end- Power forwards could shoot over him, and Small forwards could burn him with penetration. His physique was ill- suited for defense. Sure, at times he was a little lazy, but you have to consider that he was only 6'5, and well over 270lb. (eventhough he was listed as 6'9 and 255 for most of his career.

Stefan

P.S. Slim's idea sounds very interesting. Let Charlie experiment with Alton. (Alton even looks like him.)

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Chaplin
As everyone else has been saying, just because the Rockets had Hakeem and an overrated Clyde Drexler, doesn't make them a better TEAM. Yes, Hakeem was awesome--at that time the best center in the league.

But overall, the Suns were better. Overall, I think they were slightly better than the Bulls. But the Bulls had Michael Jordan and they had experience, and there is no substituting for that. But pound for pound, the Suns were the best team in the NBA.

Ok, so who is better, Sacramento or Los Angeles?
Stojakovic, Jackson, Christie, Clark, Divac, etc are much better than Horry, Fox, Fisher, Madsen, etc, but Shaq and Kobe are much better than Webber and Bibby. I guess you can say Sacramento is a better team than the Lakers, but who has three rings?


Now you can say Shaq is better than Hakeem, Kobe is better than Drexler, and I am not going to argue with that, I realize this is not a perfect analogy, but please try to see what I am trying to say.

Anyways, can we all agree that Clyde and Hakeem were better than KJ and Chuck?

Then you have Ainge, Majerle, Manning, Big O, and I am missing somebody here, but can not remember who it was, against Horry, Smith, Casell (was he there yet)

I'll agree that Phoenix had a better supporting cast, but Houston's two stars were much better than the Suns two stars.

Stefan

 

[Chaplin]

You're right, Sacramento is the better TEAM. They just couldn't take care of business against the Lakers, but Sacramento, IMO, is the best team in the NBA, and they were the best team last year as well.

As for Clyde Drexler being better than Kevin Johnson... I'll concede Hakeem being better than Charles, but Clyde better than KJ?

Lemme have some of that you're smokin' dude...

 

[elindholm]

I guess you can say Sacramento is a better team than the Lakers, but who has three rings?

I think it was obvious to everyone that Sacramento had a better team last year. The Lakers got (a) significant help from the officials, (b) a lucky bounce to Horry, and (c) a mental meltdown from the Kings in Game 7. The Lakers were psychologically tougher and they deserved to win -- I guess, although the officiating in Game 6 significantly tarnishes their victory -- but the Kings had the better team.

Similarly, I think it was clear that the Blazers were better than the Lakers in '00. Never mind the choke job that Portland pulled -- it was the bogus fouls on Sabonis down the stretch that determined the outcome. Again, Los Angeles was tougher mentally, and that is worth something, but it's only one part of being a good team.

Only one of the Lakers' three recent titles is genuine, and that is the one from '01. They were clearly the class of the league that season.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by Chaplin

As for Clyde Drexler being better than Kevin Johnson... I'll concede Hakeem being better than Charles, but Clyde better than KJ?

Lemme have some of that you're smokin' dude...

Actually, I am just having a pint of guiness

But would you share with me why you don't think Clyde was beter than KJ. Like maybe career stats, number of rings, if he is ever going to be in the hall of fame, or even just 50 greates players?

Stefan

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Actually, I am just having a pint of guiness

But would you share with me why you don't think Clyde was beter than KJ. Like maybe career stats, number of rings, if he is ever going to be in the hall of fame, or even just 50 greates players?

Stefan

Wait a sec. Are you saying Clyde in 1994-95, or Clyde in general? He was still a great player in 94, but he was past his prime and not as good then as he was in his glory Blazer days.

This arguement would be much clearer if KJ wasn't so injured all the time, but I still think he was better at that time than Clyde Drexler.

 

[SirStefan32]

Hm, interesting take Chap. True, Clyde was getting older by 1994. Yeah, I guess it's hard to determine who was batter at that point. My bad, I was thinking Clyde Drextler in general.

 

[elindholm]

Like maybe career stats, number of rings

Number of rings? That's a joke, right? Or is Steve Kerr better than all of them, because he has four rings?

I'd say that, overall, Drexler was probably better than Johnson. In '94, it's hard to say, as Drexler was past his prime (as Chaplin says).

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
Hm, interesting take Chap. True, Clyde was getting older by 1994. Yeah, I guess it's hard to determine who was batter at that point. My bad, I was thinking Clyde Drextler in general.

Now, if we're talking overall in their careers, well, then definitely, you have a good point. But I was under the impression that we were discussing the teams as they stood in 1993-1995. Let's say for arguement's sake that KJ was just a little better than Drexler. So you have KJ and Barkley and Hakeem and Drexler, with Phoenix having a superior bench, and I sitll think the Suns had the edge.

 

[Chaz]

Don't forget the Suns were missing Manning in the '95 playoffs.
They had the best record in the NBA untill D. Manning blew out his knee in March of '95.

 

[Joe Mama]

Check out this gem of a quote from Charles Barkley. I found it in this article today on AZCentral.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/0313barkley0313.html

"People think I have a problem with the organization, and that's not true," Barkley said. "I did at the time I was traded and for about a year after that. It's water under the bridge now. I don't hold a grudge against anyone for seven or eight years."

Come on Charles. You've bagged on the Suns organization several times on national TV over the last few years.

Joe Mama

 

[Yotesfan85044]

Barkley says Suns denied him chance to purchase tickets

Interesting... Charles says he tried purchasing a pair of courtside season tickets to the Suns after retiring three years ago but was denied and told he wasn't welcome at AWA. Shame on Colangelo if this is true. I'm just glad they're finally putting all this bitterness behind them.

"To me, whatever the Suns decide to do (about the Ring of Honor), it's up to them. I'm in Phoenix, and I'm a Suns fan. I'd just like to go and see NBA basketball."

 

[Yuma]

Barkley was one of the best PFs of all time!

The rebounds, the low post game, the ability to grab a defensive board and go coast to coast, the assists from the low post area. One of the greatest travisties of all time was when Bobby Knight, the so-called basketball genius left Barkley off the Olympic team for a guard, and promptly blew our gold medal! At the time I knew Bobby Knight was a dumb-a$$ bully who needed his ego stroked by his players. For their heights, Barkley and Dantly were the two most amazing forwards for their talents among much bigger opponents. Amare needs some goto moves. He is getting double doubles on pure talent alone. If Barkley can help him, I am all for it. Ivarone would be a great role model off the court, let Chuck show him how to dominate on the low post.

 

[Chaplin]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/0317sunsside.html

Looks like Chuck will be at the game against Washington.