BA = Begging for Attention?

TJ

Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
34,248
Reaction score
19,739
Location
South Bay
Obviously I am struggling with BA as the head coach of my all-time favorite sports franchise. I have grown increasingly uncomfortable with him, basically because I can't trust a word he says. I also take great exception to the fact that he points the blame at anyone but himself or his "brilliant" coaches whom he has exalted as sure-fire future head coaches from his self-proclaimed coaching tree. This is one of my most nagging fears because I do not want to see any of the current coaches succeed BA in Arizona. I do not think any of them are uniquely qualified, save for Tom Pratt and Tom Moore, neither of whom wants to be a head coach at his venerable age.

I have never seen a coach spend so much time promoting himself, his brand, his swagger, his philosophy. I have also never seen a coach offer such public criticism of players, NFL schedulers and referees. I find all of this ego-stroking and public denigration of others tremendously distracting, regrettable and annoying, to the point where I do not even want to read his book.

I have never seen such a team that is predicated on talk, talk, talk. When I watch Pat P. on All or Nothing talk to the team about "toughness" I feel disgusted and it looks as if his teammates are feeling dubious as well. The only player who commands the room, imo, is Tyrann Mathieu, who speaks straight from the heart and backs it up. I really like it that this off-season Honey Badger is quietly saying little in favor of preparing like a madman for the season. But the sting of the truth still sticks painfully in my craw when Bill Belichick last year said that the Cardinals "say they are" Super Bowl contenders. This was SO true.

All of that brand and swagger you mentioned is what makes BA one of the most popular non-players in the NFL. The very reasons you hate him are the reasons we love him. He doesn't conform to coaching norms. He doesn't follow a script. He gets in people's faces. He's unpredictable. But the best part: his players love him and will put their necks on the line for the man. Hopefully, I don't have to remind you about how successful he was in his first three seasons with the franchise, but what I found interesting about last season was that even though we only won 7 games, he never lost respect from the players, coaches, and never lost the locker room. Most teams after having a six game dip from the previous year would be pointing fingers at each other. Hell, look at Seattle's locker room. That team is a 2-4 start away from a Chernobyl-type meltdown.

I know you've been hypercritical of BA for sometime, but it seems as if you've lost perspective, evidenced by the fact that him publishing a book triggered an outpour of visceral disdain. As much as you want him to change, he won't, and if you hate him for going 7-8-1 last season, you'll have no other choice but to hate him if he gets to the Super Bowl.
 

unseenaz

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Posts
6,560
Reaction score
5,007
Location
Gilbert
Agreed...Bill whatshisnuts with Houston is a complete douche canoe.

Mike Smith...blah...

50/50....yeah, wish we had a coach that talked so much about winning, like that guy, but can't back it up.

Give me BA every day, and twice on Sundays.

He's having the time of his life and is taking us all along for the ride!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Ahhhh, idk. Bill obrien is a great guy.
 

AZ Native

Living is Easy with Eyes Closed
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Posts
15,841
Reaction score
8,034
Location
Cave Creek
All of that brand and swagger you mentioned is what makes BA one of the most popular non-players in the NFL. The very reasons you hate him are the reasons we love him. He doesn't conform to coaching norms. He doesn't follow a script. He gets in people's faces. He's unpredictable. But the best part: his players love him and will put their necks on the line for the man. Hopefully, I don't have to remind you about how successful he was in his first three seasons with the franchise, but what I found interesting about last season was that even though we only won 7 games, he never lost respect from the players, coaches, and never lost the locker room. Most teams after having a six game dip from the previous year would be pointing fingers at each other. Hell, look at Seattle's locker room. That team is a 2-4 start away from a Chernobyl-type meltdown.

I know you've been hypercritical of BA for sometime, but it seems as if you've lost perspective, evidenced by the fact that him publishing a book triggered an outpour of visceral disdain. As much as you want him to change, he won't, and if you hate him for going 7-8-1 last season, you'll have no other choice but to hate him if he gets to the Super Bowl.
I agree with most of what you said but I did not like him throwing players under the bus and standing up for his ST's buddy. Loyalty can be a curse.
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
37,564
Reaction score
22,928
Mitch,

I guarantee he did not spend excessive time on this book. He just sat down with a guy and told him a bunch of stories of his life. Then, he had nothing to do with it until he got his first copy of the book.

BA is the best cardinals coach since I've been a fan. Really, not even a close second.
 

sr7706

Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Posts
346
Reaction score
145
I also take great exception to the fact that he points the blame at anyone but himself or his "brilliant" coaches whom he has exalted as sure-fire future head coaches from his self-proclaimed coaching tree.

Mitch, I find it very puzzling that B.A. has kept his coaches immune from taking any of the blame for their failures. How has this happened? How has SK gone along with this narrative and done absolutely nothing to improve the coaching staff since BA's arrival? Isn't that what a G.M. does? Why was a proper search not done for a DC when Bowles left? Why is Amos Jones immune from firing when on most other teams he would of been fired mid-season or before.

Always placing the blame on the players, when it's plain to see that something is wrong with the coaching and preparation. EX. The Rams seeing on tape that the Cardinals defense is constantly late lining before the snap, and then showing it happen AGAIN in the next game. WTF!

While yes we are lucky to have BA as a coach, his inability to make changes is very concerning. I think the timing and distractions of everything that has happened over the the past couple years has taken a toll on the organization. Kind of feels like the team is in limbo with all the changes coming.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
All of that brand and swagger you mentioned is what makes BA one of the most popular non-players in the NFL. The very reasons you hate him are the reasons we love him. He doesn't conform to coaching norms. He doesn't follow a script. He gets in people's faces. He's unpredictable. But the best part: his players love him and will put their necks on the line for the man. Hopefully, I don't have to remind you about how successful he was in his first three seasons with the franchise, but what I found interesting about last season was that even though we only won 7 games, he never lost respect from the players, coaches, and never lost the locker room. Most teams after having a six game dip from the previous year would be pointing fingers at each other. Hell, look at Seattle's locker room. That team is a 2-4 start away from a Chernobyl-type meltdown.

I know you've been hypercritical of BA for sometime, but it seems as if you've lost perspective, evidenced by the fact that him publishing a book triggered an outpour of visceral disdain. As much as you want him to change, he won't, and if you hate him for going 7-8-1 last season, you'll have no other choice but to hate him if he gets to the Super Bowl.

I guess you are speaking for everyone when you say "we love him"?

How much did the players put their necks on the line for BA last year? How much did the players put their necks on the line in the NFC Championship game embarrassment?

Last year was a carryover from the NFC Championship game debacle. The players became immune and virtually non-reactive to the coaching, as game after game they got off to sluggish starts, committed similar mistakes in all three phases of the game (especially STs) and did not come out of the tunnel at half-time ready to rectify the wrongs of sluggish first halfs.

You swear that BA didn't lose the team last year. In my opinion, he did lose the team. It wasn't until Steve Keim stepped in at the end of the season and told the players they were playing for their jobs in 2017 that we saw a change in attitude from the players.

Arians has won one playoff game in 4 years...and even by his own standards, that '"aint worth sheet." He acts like he's won multiple Super Bowls as a head coach and that he's the straw that sirs the proverbial drink.

This off-season he's off writing a book instead of spending extra time breaking down film of this year's opponents. Like BA says himself, coaches shouldn't have to work long hours. The coaching is easy. Really? Well, how can he say that when his team looked poorly coached in the NFC Championship game and for the majority of the season last year?

He's hitched his wagon to Carson Palmer and whatever whispering he has done in Palmer's ear has not been able to correct the fact that Palmer makes 3-4 boneheaded decisions a game. Game after game, snap after snap Palmer takes the play clock down to zero and snaps the ball on first hut. which allows the defense to get huge jumps off the ball, which shortens Palmer's already compromised time in the pocket.

Now BA while promoting his book is saying that Palmer can play well into his 40s. Ugh.

Time and time again BA's approach to football puts his own players at a disadvantage...he runs the most QB unfriendly offense in the NFL, which is one of the reasons why the Steelers let him go because all of BA's spread zero RB formations put the QB in immediate physical peril. Even when an elite pass rusher is in the backfield play after play, Arians refuses to chip him.

BA also refuses to play a FB, which means his offense isn't RB friendly either as the RB has zero first hit protection if a LB or DT breaks through the line, which will invariably happen when you snap the ball on 1 almost every play.

BA thinks he's going to get David Johnson 30 touches a game this year. Let's see how long that lasts in such a RB unfriendly offense.

Add to that all the complaining BA does about the East coast games, Thursday night games and his constant berating of referees, the trash talking he does to other teams..all of which puts his players in a distinct disadvantage.

This off-season...not one prize FA was signed by the Cardinals. Players no longer want to come here, unless they are aged veterans who have little other options.

All or Nothing exposed the Cardinals as pretenders, not legitimate contenders. Around the league, the word is that the Cardinals are mostly talk and at the core, they play soft. The talent is obvious, but the approach is conspicuously flawed.
 

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,353
Reaction score
4,037
Location
Monroe NC
There is no doubt that BA likes the limelight. Some of his bluster is strictly for attention getting. If you think otherwise he has fooled you. He is only the second coach to take the team to 3 winning seasons in a row since Don Coryell in the mid seventies. The one thing he hasn't done yet is gotten this team to the Super Bowl. As much as I disliked Wisenhunt he did get the team to THE GAME although I believe Warner had more to do with that than Wisenhunt. I think Mitch has made some good points and during it has rubbed some people the wrong way. What I really think Mitch was trying to say is the organization may have lost some focus on the main item which is football.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
That said, Belichick is never going to write a self-promotion book. It rubs against everything he stands for. He will never ever take the bulk of credit for the 5 Super Bowl wins. He will always credit Bob Kraft, his coaches and the players.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bi...oks_00000000&2sid=Google_&sourceId=PLGoP78860

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_15?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=bill+belichick+book&sprefix=bill+belichick+,aps,128&crid=QHNEDCINQ9V7

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/319729.Football_Physics


:shrug:
 

BigRedRage

Reckless
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Posts
48,274
Reaction score
12,524
Location
SE valley
I wonder how we had one of the top running games in the entire league when the offense is so unfriendly to running backs.

Even CJ was leading the league before his injury two years ago.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
OMG HE WROTE BOOKS WHILE HE WAS A COACH?!?!?!?!


To be fair, it has to be tough to be a Cardinals fan in Patriots country, and there is a lot to say when you win like the Patriots do.

Can you say a lot of coaches get a lot of credit through having a good QB ? Sure, but that is the way it is in the NFL. Billy B. didn't have much success before he met Brady, but I digress.

Winning makes everything OK. The Patriots win, so it is OK Billy B. has a bunch of books he has had his hands in. The Patriots win, so it is OK when they talk about Tom Brady playing till he is 40. The Patriots win, so it is OK when they have soft teams with finesse defenses, and air raid offenses with no fullback, and no real commitment to the running game. The Patriots win, so it is OK when Billy B. treats his players like crap, doesn't pay them, and trades them even if they are the face of the franchise.

When you are winning it is swagger, when you are losing it is arrogance. Same as it was with Whiz, and same as it is now with Bruce Arians. When Arians was improving the team, and all throughout 2015, Arians was a genius, and Steve Keim was a god. After the loss in the NFC Championship game, then that rhetoric changed immediately. Quicker than the change of opinion that Chandler Jones being seen as a top pass rusher, to an overpaid, over rated waste of money once traded to the Cardinals. It is just the way it is. At some point much like how Patrick Peterson is seen on this board, David Johnson will be overrated for some reason or another.

Bruce Arians says anything that garners attention, and he is a loud mouth. Billy B is rude to the press, obscenely arrogant and pretentious and says things like "InstaFace" and makes sounds bites, then that is OK. Because he wins.

In Clevenland and NYC Billy B was a jerk, why ? Cause he didn't win there (no QB), but now that he wins, all is OK.

There is no way the Cardinals are going to stack up to the Patriots, not during this generation of the NFL. While no one asked for the Cardinals to be compared to the Patriots, well that is going to happen anyway, since all teams are compared to them.

I just choose to focus on the team that I root for, I personally like Bruce Arians, but understand why some people, not from New Jersey, would not. People are entitled to their opinion, I am personally not easily swayed by fair weather, but that is me, and not that there is anything wrong with that. This is America, it is winner and loser for most people with no in between. You are first or you are last. When you are first your poop don't stink even after a night of drinking and taco bell.

To me this is just a debate over how Bruce Arians, Steve Keim, and the Cardinals have handled their tenure so far. In Mitch's opinion, they do not stack up against the Patriots in any way shape or form, and Arians first few seasons here getting double digit wins was a complete fluke. I do not agree but he is more than entitled to have a debate about the topic.
 

DVontel

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Posts
12,544
Reaction score
21,671
"This off-season he's off writing a book instead of spending extra time breaking down film of this year's opponents." It's almost as if he can't do both.

And lol at the "around the league" statement. Reminds me of a post Mitch made not too long ago where Fitz made a sarcastic tweet about not wanting to play an extra preseason game that it was "an embarrassment for the organization". No one overreacts like Mitch.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I wonder how we had one of the top running games in the entire league when the offense is so unfriendly to running backs.

Even CJ was leading the league before his injury two years ago.

Like you said about CJ, before his injury.

I didn't say the running game was ineffective on the whole, i said it is RB unfriendly in that the RB 99% of the time does not have an immediate protector and straight ahead lead blocker to take out the linebacker.

I am saying the same thing with the passing offense...it can be very productive, but just how many big hits can a QB absorb in the offense? And just how much a QB pounding does it take for the QB to get turnover prone?
 

BigRedRage

Reckless
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Posts
48,274
Reaction score
12,524
Location
SE valley
Like you said about CJ, before his injury.

I didn't say the running game was ineffective on the whole, i said it is RB unfriendly in that the RB 99% of the time does not have an immediate protector and straight ahead lead blocker to take out the linebacker.


Why does that matter when we have one of the most potent running attacks in the league the last two years?

To me it is bitching just to bitch. I'm excited for the coming season and will take blustery BA over cant build a team whiz or cant win a game denny all day long.
 

GuernseyCard

ASFN Icon
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Posts
10,123
Reaction score
5,681
Location
London UK
Belichick runs the Patriots' offense. He gives all the credit to his offensive coaches, but his stamp is all over all 3 phases of the game. He's been a HC for 23 years. If you think he's been strictly focused on defense all, these years, you don't really know the coach.

That said, Belichick is never going to write a self-promotion book. It rubs against everything he stands for. He will never ever take the bulk of credit for the 5 Super Bowl wins. He will always credit Bob Kraft, his coaches and the players.

Well, you can believe this but I'll bet you'll be proven wrong.

BB won't be slamming the door in the face of a publishing company rep offering a 7-figure advance for his memoirs when the time comes.

And, yes, every head coach is technically in charge on the offense. But, for one, I've never seen him make one offensive call from the sidelines. He's had a string of highly competent offensive coordinators and he let's them do their job.

If you think BB has a smaller ego than BA... you really don't know the coach!
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
To be fair, it has to be tough to be a Cardinals fan in Patriots country, and there is a lot to say when you win like the Patriots do.

Can you say a lot of coaches get a lot of credit through having a good QB ? Sure, but that is the way it is in the NFL. Billy B. didn't have much success before he met Brady, but I digress.

Winning makes everything OK. The Patriots win, so it is OK Billy B. has a bunch of books he has had his hands in. The Patriots win, so it is OK when they talk about Tom Brady playing till he is 40. The Patriots win, so it is OK when they have soft teams with finesse defenses, and air raid offenses with no fullback, and no real commitment to the running game. The Patriots win, so it is OK when Billy B. treats his players like crap, doesn't pay them, and trades them even if they are the face of the franchise.

When you are winning it is swagger, when you are losing it is arrogance. Same as it was with Whiz, and same as it is now with Bruce Arians. When Arians was improving the team, and all throughout 2015, Arians was a genius, and Steve Keim was a god. After the loss in the NFC Championship game, then that rhetoric changed immediately. Quicker than the change of opinion that Chandler Jones being seen as a top pass rusher, to an overpaid, over rated waste of money once traded to the Cardinals. It is just the way it is. At some point much like how Patrick Peterson is seen on this board, David Johnson will be overrated for some reason or another.

Bruce Arians says anything that garners attention, and he is a loud mouth. Billy B is rude to the press, obscenely arrogant and pretentious and says things like "InstaFace" and makes sounds bites, then that is OK. Because he wins.

In Clevenland and NYC Billy B was a jerk, why ? Cause he didn't win there (no QB), but now that he wins, all is OK.

There is no way the Cardinals are going to stack up to the Patriots, not during this generation of the NFL. While no one asked for the Cardinals to be compared to the Patriots, well that is going to happen anyway, since all teams are compared to them.

I just choose to focus on the team that I root for, I personally like Bruce Arians, but understand why some people, not from New Jersey, would not. People are entitled to their opinion, I am personally not easily swayed by fair weather, but that is me, and not that there is anything wrong with that. This is America, it is winner and loser for most people with no in between. You are first or you are last. When you are first your poop don't stink even after a night of drinking and taco bell.

To me this is just a debate over how Bruce Arians, Steve Keim, and the Cardinals have handled their tenure so far. In Mitch's opinion, they do not stack up against the Patriots in any way shape or form, and Arians first few seasons here getting double digit wins was a complete fluke. I do not agree but he is more than entitled to have a debate about the topic.

I think this is very well written and mostly fair assessment, Rugby and I thank you for that.

The one statement you made that I would challenge is I never said BA's double digit wins was a fluke. I think that BA's aggressive play calling (on offense and defense) his first couple years had a lot to do with why the Cardinals started winning. But it also has a lot to do with talent. Steve Keim has done, imo, a very good job of building the talent on the roster. In some ways with regard to the Cardinals' talent, i think the Cardinals have under-achieved even with double digit wins. Kind of like how Patrick Peterson has underachieved as a punt returner. The talent is obvious, but the will and the coaching are lacking.

What's happening now is that opponents have found the weaknesses in BA's approach and they are no longer surprised when BA goes for it when others would punt or kick. Opponents have discovered BA's predictable tendencies. Plus, opponents have the freedom of knowing that BA is stubborn in his pass pro blocking schemes and won't hardly ever double team or chip their best pass rushers. They also know that Carson Palmer is not a quick triggered passer or a running threat so they can overplay in coverage and often take advantage of Palmer's short time clock. It doesn't help the Cardinals either that so often the plays are snapped at the end of the play clock on the first hut. The best QBs in the NFL are always mixing up snap counts and keeping the defenses off-balance.
 
Last edited:

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
How has his team performed for him? Have they won anything?

Those are the yardsticks.

What's he like as a person?

Match his human qualities against those yardsticks and that's all I care about.

I'm sure we could all drill down and find all kinds of stuff to pick at to justify our judgments of BA both pro and con.

Personally, I like the guy, both as a coach and as a human. His way isn't the only route to success, but I like the whole package and am hopeful he'll take us where we want to go.
 

RugbyMuffin

ASFN IDOL
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Posts
30,485
Reaction score
4,877
I think this is very well written and mostly fair assessment, Rugby and I thank you for that.

No problem. I have no issue with you writing your opinion on guys, just sports banter, and your clarifications make sense. I have had my share of complaints about things that are popular among the Cardinals masses, it happens.

For example, I am not a big fan of Tyrann Mathieu right now, too much talk, not enough production, and I guarantee if he has a resurgence again this year, I will be happy to have him.

BTW, I have no way to know how much Billy B was involved in writing any of the books as your note, but in regards to this specific book:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/319729.Football_Physics

He has his name on it, wrote the forward, thus I would assume he had input on that one at least.

Regardless, if Billy B. can be involved in a book AND win, then there is no issue.

Best thing Arians can do to get more people back on board is......win.
 

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,353
Reaction score
4,037
Location
Monroe NC
Let's put BA's accomplishments in perspective. To date he has registered a good number of regular season wins under his belt. He has taken the team to the playoffs. If he doesn't make it to the SB before retiring then his name goes into the column of a bunch of other head coaches who had much success in the regular season and were some of the winningest coaches ever but could never get their team to the dance. All good coaches who new how to win games but just didn't have what it takes to deliver the goods.

Paul Brown
Marty Schottenheimer
Sid Gillman
Don Coryell
Jim Mora Sr.
Dennis Green
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
37,564
Reaction score
22,928
These books are written by authors and are not autobiographies or self-promotion texts. Big difference.

No, it is not a "big difference". Time spent getting a book out is time spent not coaching or scouting. Why is that ok for Belicheck but not Arians on Planet Mitch?
 
Top