Aytons rookie season

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https://theathletic.com/906463/2019/04/04/examining-deandre-aytons-underrated-rookie-season/

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Ayton, meanwhile, is not mentioned in the national debate despite averaging 16.3 points and 10.3 rebounds per game while shooting 58.5 percent from the floor — the highest field-goal percentage by a rookie averaging a double-double in NBA history
 

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The only problem is that Ayton didn't improve one bit over the course of the season. He is still the same player he was to begin the season.

I put that more on Igor than on Ayton.
 
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The only problem is that Ayton didn't improve one bit over the course of the season. He is still the same player he was to begin the season.

I put that more on Igor than on Ayton.

That's just really biased.

September Ayton couldn't guard Lebron and Giannis
 

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It’s not being talked about for two reasons mainly. One, this is the age of inflated stats so numbers don’t have the same significance they used to. Two, Luka and Trae are their teams primary ball handlers so they have a higher impact on their team and make more highlight plays.
 

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Ayton plays in power position. Give him an offseason of gym work and let's see what year two is like. JJ is markedly stronger this year than his first year.
 

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The only problem is that Ayton didn't improve one bit over the course of the season. He is still the same player he was to begin the season.

I put that more on Igor than on Ayton.
Yes, after a Point Guard, a decent Center is the next most important position whose play can help the rest of the team.

That was impossible for Ayton to grow into while having to play Center on offense like a Wing at the 3-point line.
 

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Yes, after a Point Guard, a decent Center is the next most important position whose play can help the rest of the team.

That was impossible for Ayton to grow into while having to play Center on offense like a Wing at the 3-point line.

But that didn't really happen. He set screens often at the top of the key but it's not like he stood there waiting for a chance to shoot. And I see centers doing this all the time, including Embiid. Don't forget, we all saw Ayton pass out of scoring opportunities many times or not work to get back to the post after he'd set his pick.

I don't fault Ayton but I don't fault anyone for this, it's a function of his age and his experience. I think he had a great rookie season, it doesn't bother me one bit that another player or two might have an even better season. If Ayton wants it, he has a good chance to become the best player from this class.
 

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But that didn't really happen. He set screens often at the top of the key but it's not like he stood there waiting for a chance to shoot. And I see centers doing this all the time, including Embiid. Don't forget, we all saw Ayton pass out of scoring opportunities many times or not work to get back to the post after he'd set his pick.

I don't fault Ayton but I don't fault anyone for this, it's a function of his age and his experience. I think he had a great rookie season, it doesn't bother me one bit that another player or two might have an even better season. If Ayton wants it, he has a good chance to become the best player from this class.

But we should have seen some progress, any progress, over the season. Someone needs to teach him.
 

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To see how timid Ayton is all someone needs to do is watch Holmes on offense. They set the same high screens but Holmes doesn't wait around out there, he drives into the paint and gets in position for a rebound or an entry pass while Ayton takes his time to get there unless the play call is for him to roll to the basket for an alleyoop.

Ayton is capable of draining 14-18 footers so waiting out there isn't bad but too often when he misses his first or second shot from out there, he needs to drive hard to the basket. I don't think we saw Ayton move with the ball until March and that's on Ayton. I hope they get him working with someone this offseason that can help his game take the next step. He has all of the tools to be one of the greatest 7 footers to ever play the game but he needs some seasoning.

He says Garnett was his favorite player growing up, if he worked with KG I think he could learn a lot. I know a lot of names have been thrown around for him to work with and I'd let Ayton pick one and then have the Suns pick another for him. I think Amare could be another great person to work with as well.
 

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To see how timid Ayton is all someone needs to do is watch Holmes on offense. They set the same high screens but Holmes doesn't wait around out there, he drives into the paint and gets in position for a rebound or an entry pass while Ayton takes his time to get there unless the play call is for him to roll to the basket for an alleyoop.

Ayton is capable of draining 14-18 footers so waiting out there isn't bad but too often when he misses his first or second shot from out there, he needs to drive hard to the basket. I don't think we saw Ayton move with the ball until March and that's on Ayton. I hope they get him working with someone this offseason that can help his game take the next step. He has all of the tools to be one of the greatest 7 footers to ever play the game but he needs some seasoning.

He says Garnett was his favorite player growing up, if he worked with KG I think he could learn a lot. I know a lot of names have been thrown around for him to work with and I'd let Ayton pick one and then have the Suns pick another for him. I think Amare could be another great person to work with as well.

I even heard Ann Meyers Drysdale comment during a game Ayton should be playing closer to the rim.
 

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I think Ayton's problems are typical problems for a kid his age and his size.
I am very happy with what he's shown us in his rookie year. Outside of aggressiveness, getting the low post position, and scoring quickly from the low post, he is far more advanced than I expected him to be in his rookie year. Team defense is another issue, but his one on one defense is actually better than I expected.

As for the lack of attention he is getting in the media... good! I think getting media attention would be a bad thing for him right now. It adds pressure that young players don't know how to handle. I am just fine with him flying under the radar for a year or two.
 

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To see how timid Ayton is all someone needs to do is watch Holmes on offense. They set the same high screens but Holmes doesn't wait around out there, he drives into the paint and gets in position for a rebound or an entry pass while Ayton takes his time to get there unless the play call is for him to roll to the basket for an alleyoop.

Ayton is capable of draining 14-18 footers so waiting out there isn't bad but too often when he misses his first or second shot from out there, he needs to drive hard to the basket. I don't think we saw Ayton move with the ball until March and that's on Ayton. I hope they get him working with someone this offseason that can help his game take the next step. He has all of the tools to be one of the greatest 7 footers to ever play the game but he needs some seasoning.

He says Garnett was his favorite player growing up, if he worked with KG I think he could learn a lot. I know a lot of names have been thrown around for him to work with and I'd let Ayton pick one and then have the Suns pick another for him. I think Amare could be another great person to work with as well.

I don't disagree with you, but Holmes is a bit older than Ayton. He is also a far less skilled player, so I think he is more used to having to be aggressive.
 

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I don't disagree with you, but Holmes is a bit older than Ayton. He is also a far less skilled player, so I think he is more used to having to be aggressive.

Yeah. I think it can be learned. There was a reason the Suns got Holmes for only $1 million.
 

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I don't disagree with you, but Holmes is a bit older than Ayton. He is also a far less skilled player, so I think he is more used to having to be aggressive.

Ayton is learning still and that's fine because he is just a kid still. I'm not faulting him for being a somewhat timid 20 year old. He is a 7 footer but he's facing off against other 7 footers who have been at this longer than he has. I don't mean just playing basketball but actually playing against people the same size as he is. That has to be a bit jarring for him. His entire life playing basketball has featured him as the largest guy on the court probably 90% of the time and on the rare occasion he faced off with someone who was a 7 footer also I doubt that other player had the coordination or skill that Ayton has. So he's been able to use his size as advantage everywhere he's played until he made it to the NBA. Once he gains some more confidence and learns some new moves then he'll learn to use his size better at this level also but it wasn't as easy as any other level he's played at.

I'm not trying to fault him for it even though it is something he needs to learn but so many people want to blame him playing away from the basket on someone other than Ayton himself that I think you need to take a step back and look at things more objectively to see that Igor isn't to blame, Booker isn't blame, a lack of a PF is not to blame, or anyone other than Ayton himself is to blame for how he played at some points this year. You're allowed to blame him for some shortcomings and still be a fan with high hopes for him. I think people forget that. In no way am I an Ayton hater because I see some things he can't do. I can only imagine if we had rookie Shaq on this team and if someone called him out for shooting terrible from the FT line. I think it would draw similar reactions that the pro-Ayton people jump to whenever anything other than praise is heaped on Ayton.
 

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Yeah. I think it can be learned. There was a reason the Suns got Holmes for only $1 million.

Exactly and we didn't draft Ayton #1 overall to play like Holmes. Asking Ayton to be able to bang inside and be able to pull up and hit some mid range jumpers isn't too much, IMO. It's something I expect we'll see soon, maybe even next year, but by the time his rookie contract is up I think Ayton should be a handful all over the offensive end of the floor but it will take time. I just wish he was a little better at attacking the basket right now. I think it'll be easier to teach him how to do that then it will adding a midrange game to his repertoire.
 

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Ayton is learning still and that's fine because he is just a kid still. I'm not faulting him for being a somewhat timid 20 year old. He is a 7 footer but he's facing off against other 7 footers who have been at this longer than he has. I don't mean just playing basketball but actually playing against people the same size as he is. That has to be a bit jarring for him. His entire life playing basketball has featured him as the largest guy on the court probably 90% of the time and on the rare occasion he faced off with someone who was a 7 footer also I doubt that other player had the coordination or skill that Ayton has. So he's been able to use his size as advantage everywhere he's played until he made it to the NBA. Once he gains some more confidence and learns some new moves then he'll learn to use his size better at this level also but it wasn't as easy as any other level he's played at.

I'm not trying to fault him for it even though it is something he needs to learn but so many people want to blame him playing away from the basket on someone other than Ayton himself that I think you need to take a step back and look at things more objectively to see that Igor isn't to blame, Booker isn't blame, a lack of a PF is not to blame, or anyone other than Ayton himself is to blame for how he played at some points this year. You're allowed to blame him for some shortcomings and still be a fan with high hopes for him. I think people forget that. In no way am I an Ayton hater because I see some things he can't do. I can only imagine if we had rookie Shaq on this team and if someone called him out for shooting terrible from the FT line. I think it would draw similar reactions that the pro-Ayton people jump to whenever anything other than praise is heaped on Ayton.
A couple of items:

I’m not so sure the “He hasn’t played against guys his size” argument truly holds water anymore. Pre-AAU I think that was likely but these kids all play in the same circuits now. I know bamba played against Ayton before the nba. Also bagley was actually in his high school team so he likely had to practice against length regularly.

And I agree that Ayton bears responsibility. That mid season article quoting the suns player development guy was a great read. And he kept reinforcing the concept that they were trying to get Ayton to get deep post position and force fouls throughout the season but he had to actually do it. So let’s be sure we understand. Ayton is not being coached to avoid the paint and post.
 

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A couple of items:

I’m not so sure the “He hasn’t played against guys his size” argument truly holds water anymore. Pre-AAU I think that was likely but these kids all play in the same circuits now. I know bamba played against Ayton before the nba. Also bagley was actually in his high school team so he likely had to practice against length regularly.

And I agree that Ayton bears responsibility. That mid season article quoting the suns player development guy was a great read. And he kept reinforcing the concept that they were trying to get Ayton to get deep post position and force fouls throughout the season but he had to actually do it. So let’s be sure we understand. Ayton is not being coached to avoid the paint and post.


In regards to that I know that younger players like Ayton do see size some when they play now before reaching the NBA but it's rare. The matchups against Bamba and Bagley were not the norm and he didn't run into people like Boban prior to coming into the league. So perhaps he saw similar size but it was never much of an issue because it was all size he was facing outside of the rare instance he matched up with Bamba. Playing against 7 foot stiffs is nothing like like playing against Rudy Gobert or Andre Drummond or Nikola Jokic. All of those guys bring something different to the game outside of their size. They are 7 footers but they also have skills that very few players have at any size.

I was going to add Bamba specifically to my post because I know he and Ayton ran into each other a few times prior to making the leap to the NBA but that was far from the norm and was the exception to his days playing as an amateur. Having 1 or 2 games a year where you are playing someone that is a similar size with skill is a lot different than playing against teams that can throw 3 different guys at you that are the same size as you and all of them bring something to the table. So Ayton's days of having his way with an opponent simply because he's a skilled 7 footer are a thing of the past. He has never seen skilled sized like this before, and that probably would have been the better way to say it.
 

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In regards to that I know that younger players like Ayton do see size some when they play now before reaching the NBA but it's rare. The matchups against Bamba and Bagley were not the norm and he didn't run into people like Boban prior to coming into the league. So perhaps he saw similar size but it was never much of an issue because it was all size he was facing outside of the rare instance he matched up with Bamba. Playing against 7 foot stiffs is nothing like like playing against Rudy Gobert or Andre Drummond or Nikola Jokic. All of those guys bring something different to the game outside of their size. They are 7 footers but they also have skills that very few players have at any size.

I was going to add Bamba specifically to my post because I know he and Ayton ran into each other a few times prior to making the leap to the NBA but that was far from the norm and was the exception to his days playing as an amateur. Having 1 or 2 games a year where you are playing someone that is a similar size with skill is a lot different than playing against teams that can throw 3 different guys at you that are the same size as you and all of them bring something to the table. So Ayton's days of having his way with an opponent simply because he's a skilled 7 footer are a thing of the past. He has never seen skilled sized like this before, and that probably would have been the better way to say it.
He was on the same team as bagley. He had to have practices against him daily.
 

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Bagley is shorter and weaker than Ayton and worlds smaller and weaker than Boban or some of the other big men in the NBA.
True but it’s not like he’s a shrimp. And he also more talented and athletic than Boban and many other big men in the nba.

Look we can make excuses all we want. But it is what it is. Every rookie is playing against guys who are larger, stronger, more athletic, more experienced. Except the guys coming from Europe. For them it’s a still a step up but a smaller step up. You don’t think Trae young encounters a different physical game at the nba level than he did in college? Absolutely does.
 

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Bagley is 6'11" and so explosive for a big man (234 lbs) this has to count for something.
 

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Bagley is 6'11" and so explosive for a big man (234 lbs) this has to count for something.
My point isn't that Bagley is easier to defend or score on necessarily, but only that he poses a completely different set of challenges than the big and strong guys that Ayton has had some struggles with in the NBA.
 

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He was on the same team as bagley. He had to have practices against him daily.

Practice in high school isn't nearly the same as playing professionally, or even at the college level. As CardsSunsDbacks said also, Bagley isn't as big or strong as Ayton and definitely isn't in the same category as some NBA Centers, which is part of why he's been playing PF for the Kings. I'm not sure how big either was in High School either but I imagine they've grown in that time also and from my understanding they were only teammates for 1 year. I'm not sure which year but that makes a difference because Freshmans aren't nearly the same physically as Seniors, for example.
 

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True but it’s not like he’s a shrimp. And he also more talented and athletic than Boban and many other big men in the nba.

Look we can make excuses all we want. But it is what it is. Every rookie is playing against guys who are larger, stronger, more athletic, more experienced. Except the guys coming from Europe. For them it’s a still a step up but a smaller step up. You don’t think Trae young encounters a different physical game at the nba level than he did in college? Absolutely does.

But Trae Young's game isn't built around being able to have his way with others because he's bigger, stronger, and quicker than everyone who guards him. Comparing a PG's physical challenges and adjustments to that of a C's is night and day. Ayton's game is good a bit further from the basket but he was also able to go inside whenever he wanted prior to making it to this level, that's no longer something he can do and it's taken some time for him to get used to that.

The reason I mentioned Boban specifically is I remember that first matchup with the Clippers and Ayton looked shell shocked just seeing Boban enter the game. It was clear by his facial expressions that he'd never faced anyone like him and he even elaborated on that in the postgame. There were other matchups similar like when Jokic torched him in the 2nd or 3rd game of the year but since that was so early in the season I didn't hold that against Ayton because he's 2-3 games into being a pro at that point. Boban was a little different.
 
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