Another stellar draft by bluto

Stout

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D Hop- Possible HOFer who was brought in in his prime
Simmons- Stats and common sense say he’s already above average. Barring injury, he’ll approach stardom this year.
Fotu- 3rd year player, 2 year starter at a position where it often takes 2-3 years to develop.
Lawrence- See above
Benjamin- 3rd year player who has done enough in the coaches eyes to take carries from the reigning NFL TD leader. Take that however you’d like.
Drake- Served his purpose.
D Hop isn't a draftee. Having to trade away picks for players because you can't draft them doesn't enhance a GM's ability to draft.
 

Chopper0080

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D Hop isn't a draftee. Having to trade away picks for players because you can't draft them doesn't enhance a GM's ability to draft.
I am happy you mention this. Being able to execute trades has no bearing on a GM being able to draft talent. The GM can be aware he is not great at the draft and make trades to offset that but it doesn't change the deficiency.
 

Chopper0080

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There are 3-4 starters and a PBer courtesy of this draft. Hate to be the bearer of reality, but that’s a good draft.
?

This group has started, as a whole, 47 games over two seasons. The number of available games to start are 198. So that class has started 23.7% of possible starts. I can understand if you believe Fotu and Lawrence will take a step up this year, but Jones was essentially benched once the Cardinals signed Hernandez. Eno isn't starting ahead of Conner. Weaver is cut. Simmons starts but has been underwhelming in relation to his draft position.

Simmons - starter (probably)
Jones - backup
Fotu - backup
Lawrence - starter (maybe)
Weaver - cut
Benjamin - backup
 

cardsfanmd

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?

This group has started, as a whole, 47 games over two seasons. The number of available games to start are 198. So that class has started 23.7% of possible starts. I can understand if you believe Fotu and Lawrence will take a step up this year, but Jones was essentially benched once the Cardinals signed Hernandez. Eno isn't starting ahead of Conner. Weaver is cut. Simmons starts but has been underwhelming in relation to his draft position.

Simmons - starter (probably)
Jones - backup
Fotu - backup
Lawrence - starter (maybe)
Weaver - cut
Benjamin - backup
It’s their 3rd year. You’re acting like 4th rounders typically start right away. DHop was our 2nd round pick and Drake was our 3rd. Also, I’d also forgotten that Jalen Thompson accounted for our 5th that year. It was a great draft. Do you really want to keep going?
 

dreamcastrocks

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It’s their 3rd year. You’re acting like 4th rounders typically start right away. DHop was our 2nd round pick and Drake was our 3rd. Also, I’d also forgotten that Jalen Thompson accounted for our 5th that year. It was a great draft. Do you really want to keep going?
Drake was an expensive 3rd round pick, but I get what you are saying...
 

Chopper0080

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It’s their 3rd year. You’re acting like 4th rounders typically start right away. DHop was our 2nd round pick and Drake was our 3rd. Also, I’d also forgotten that Jalen Thompson accounted for our 5th that year. It was a great draft. Do you really want to keep going?
This was your post...

"There are 3-4 starters and a PBer courtesy of this draft. Hate to be the bearer of reality, but that’s a good draft."

I was pointing out that to date, this isn't accurate. This draft has not produced, in your words, 3-4 starters.

And, as was pointed out previously, trading draft picks for players does not equate to a good draft. It equates to good trades. Stating that Keim is good at trading picks for valuable assets and players would not be disputed if you ask me.
 

Stout

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It’s their 3rd year. You’re acting like 4th rounders typically start right away. DHop was our 2nd round pick and Drake was our 3rd. Also, I’d also forgotten that Jalen Thompson accounted for our 5th that year. It was a great draft. Do you really want to keep going?
Wrong. They're the players we traded our draft capital away for. We did not draft them.
 

oaken1

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?

This group has started, as a whole, 47 games over two seasons. The number of available games to start are 198. So that class has started 23.7% of possible starts. I can understand if you believe Fotu and Lawrence will take a step up this year, but Jones was essentially benched once the Cardinals signed Hernandez. Eno isn't starting ahead of Conner. Weaver is cut. Simmons starts but has been underwhelming in relation to his draft position.

Simmons - starter (probably)
Jones - backup
Fotu - backup
Lawrence - starter (maybe)
Weaver - cut
Benjamin - backup
And thats a fairly decent draft.

Of course we all would prefer

Pro bowler
Pro bowler
Hall of famer
Awesome starter
Best swing tackle in the nfl
Cut
Solid rotational player


Because we all know, based on several decades of following the draft, that every GM other than steve keim has a draft just like that every other year or so.
 

Dback Jon

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Could be worse...

LV Raiders 2020 draft:

1st - Henry Ruggs - awaiting trial
1st - Damon Arnette - cut after arrests, out of league after second arrest
3rd - Lynn Bowden - Out of the NFL
3rd - Bryan Edwards - traded for a 5th round pick (along with a 7th round pick)
3rd - Tanner Muse - released without ever playing
4th - John Simpson - starting offensive guard
4th - Amik Roberson - started two games
 

DVontel

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It’s their 3rd year. You’re acting like 4th rounders typically start right away. DHop was our 2nd round pick and Drake was our 3rd. Also, I’d also forgotten that Jalen Thompson accounted for our 5th that year. It was a great draft. Do you really want to keep going?
I really do think you’re relative of Steve Keim lol I don’t remember you ever criticizing the guy, ever.
 

cardsfanmd

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This was your post...

"There are 3-4 starters and a PBer courtesy of this draft. Hate to be the bearer of reality, but that’s a good draft."

I was pointing out that to date, this isn't accurate. This draft has not produced, in your words, 3-4 starters.

And, as was pointed out previously, trading draft picks for players does not equate to a good draft. It equates to good trades. Stating that Keim is good at trading picks for valuable assets and players would not be disputed if you ask me.
Does Thompson not count because he was drafted in the supplemental draft?

Thompson
Simmons
Fotu
Lawrence
DHop
Drake

Jones will almost definitely be a starter next year.



Also, the draft did produce them as draft picks were used to acquire them lol. We missed out on having a 2nd and 3rd round pick because of DHop and Drake and a 5th because of Thompson. Otherwise, there would be 3 more players on the list.

If you were a drug dealer, bought a car with drug money, then sold said car and put the earnings into another car, when the police finally caught up to you, that new car would be seized.

I get he didn’t draft them. I’ve never said his team is great at drafting. He used the draft to acquire these players though.
 

Chopper0080

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Does Thompson not count because he was drafted in the supplemental draft?

Thompson
Simmons
Fotu
Lawrence
DHop
Drake

Jones will almost definitely be a starter next year.



Also, the draft did produce them as draft picks were used to acquire them lol. We missed out on having a 2nd and 3rd round pick because of DHop and Drake and a 5th because of Thompson. Otherwise, there would be 3 more players on the list.

If you were a drug dealer, bought a car with drug money, then sold said car and put the earnings into another car, when the police finally caught up to you, that new car would be seized.

I get he didn’t draft them. I’ve never said his team is great at drafting. He used the draft to acquire these players though.
Supplemental draft occurred the year before in 2019 and the pick was taken in 2020. So, no. You can count it to Keim's supplemental draft record.

Again, using a draft pick to acquire a player is a trade. You are forgoing drafting a player to acquire an established player. Those players are not part of a "draft class" they are players who reduce the number of players in the draft class. Opting out of something doesn't make you good at it.

Keim has a great track record with trades. He has a poor track record with drafting college players. One of the reasons Keim is still a GM is his willingness to trade picks (which he is not good with) for established players. I don't know if this is a level of self awareness or not but he obviously feels like he can be more successful adding talent that way vs drafting it.

As far as Jones being a starter next year...come on man. Today isn't next year and a lot can happen in one year. When he is an established starter we can count him as an established starter. However, today is not that day.
 

Stout

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Does Thompson not count because he was drafted in the supplemental draft?

Thompson
Simmons
Fotu
Lawrence
DHop
Drake

Jones will almost definitely be a starter next year.



Also, the draft did produce them as draft picks were used to acquire them lol. We missed out on having a 2nd and 3rd round pick because of DHop and Drake and a 5th because of Thompson. Otherwise, there would be 3 more players on the list.

If you were a drug dealer, bought a car with drug money, then sold said car and put the earnings into another car, when the police finally caught up to you, that new car would be seized.

I get he didn’t draft them. I’ve never said his team is great at drafting. He used the draft to acquire these players though.
Sorry, no. We're talking about his ability to draft talent. He didn't draft those players, he traded for them. If the discussion were overall talent acquisition, they would be included. This is a draft discussion, and he didn't draft them.

If anything, these trades are a negative for SK, speaking of the draft. It's an indicator his office and he himself cannot scout, draft, and develop young talent, so he has to burn draft capital to acquire it. Nothing wrong with trading picks and acquiring talent, of course, but we can see the holes on the team and the wasted picks trying to fix mistakes that shows us he isn't a savvy GM, and he has to make up for his major shortfall in trades.
 

Solar7

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Does Thompson not count because he was drafted in the supplemental draft?

Thompson
Simmons
Fotu
Lawrence
DHop
Drake

Jones will almost definitely be a starter next year.



Also, the draft did produce them as draft picks were used to acquire them lol. We missed out on having a 2nd and 3rd round pick because of DHop and Drake and a 5th because of Thompson. Otherwise, there would be 3 more players on the list.

If you were a drug dealer, bought a car with drug money, then sold said car and put the earnings into another car, when the police finally caught up to you, that new car would be seized.

I get he didn’t draft them. I’ve never said his team is great at drafting. He used the draft to acquire these players though.
DHop and Drake don't count as drafted players because we also had to provide them with contract extensions and a ton of money. We got a year and a half out of Drake and maybe one contract out of DHop which is not the same as having a cost controlled young player contributing to your team, allowing you to get other premiere free agents.
 

Devilmaycare

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Sorry, no. We're talking about his ability to draft talent. He didn't draft those players, he traded for them. If the discussion were overall talent acquisition, they would be included. This is a draft discussion, and he didn't draft them.

If anything, these trades are a negative for SK, speaking of the draft. It's an indicator his office and he himself cannot scout, draft, and develop young talent, so he has to burn draft capital to acquire it. Nothing wrong with trading picks and acquiring talent, of course, but we can see the holes on the team and the wasted picks trying to fix mistakes that shows us he isn't a savvy GM, and he has to make up for his major shortfall in trades.

Not only that as a negative it's also a negative on the cap. Instead of drafting a player that's slotted at $2m we're getting guys with $10m or $20m numbers. There's a reason we never have cap space.
 
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