Alternate Draft Idea: Less Picks

Stout

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Common thought around her is that the Cards are thinking of trading back to get more high-end picks in this current draft. I think they might do so, and in so doing, they may pick up extra later picks too. I've thought of one problem with the idea of grabbing more late picks in combination with the FA "plan" thus far, though: A logjam of players at the low end of the roster. By signing so many special teams specialists, it could hinder the growth or even roster status of late-round picks, and we could lose out on a young contributor. This is a possible problem with what we're doing.

An alternative that might help with this potential problem, and a path that would add higher picks while avoiding passing on Anderson at 3, is to trade up. So we have the bottom-of-the-roster spots that are mostly special teamers overstocked? In that case, use our lower picks to move up. If we're worried our C won't be there in round 3, for example, package a few picks to move up in the 3rd or even into the back end of the 2nd. This might help us secure the top young talent we need in the draft while avoiding a logjam lower on the roster. I'd much rather come away from this draft with 3-4 players we think can either be straight-up studs or long-serving solid starters than a scattergun poke-and-hope method of drafting.

Thoughts?
 

RON_IN_OC

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Common thought around her is that the Cards are thinking of trading back to get more high-end picks in this current draft. I think they might do so, and in so doing, they may pick up extra later picks too. I've thought of one problem with the idea of grabbing more late picks in combination with the FA "plan" thus far, though: A logjam of players at the low end of the roster. By signing so many special teams specialists, it could hinder the growth or even roster status of late-round picks, and we could lose out on a young contributor. This is a possible problem with what we're doing.

An alternative that might help with this potential problem, and a path that would add higher picks while avoiding passing on Anderson at 3, is to trade up. So we have the bottom-of-the-roster spots that are mostly special teamers overstocked? In that case, use our lower picks to move up. If we're worried our C won't be there in round 3, for example, package a few picks to move up in the 3rd or even into the back end of the 2nd. This might help us secure the top young talent we need in the draft while avoiding a logjam lower on the roster. I'd much rather come away from this draft with 3-4 players we think can either be straight-up studs or long-serving solid starters than a scattergun poke-and-hope method of drafting.

Thoughts?
I can see that...If you really only think 4, or so, may contribute, just position yourself to target 4 really good guys in the 1st 4 rounds.
 

kerouac9

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I don't think we have a roster crunch. We only have 63 players under contract. I'm fine if we feel like we can't draft more off-ball linebackers on Saturday because we're stocked at the position.

In fact, I expect we'll see a lot more drafting for need, although the most obvious and pressing need might not come first. We want to get developmental prospects into our pipeline at the positions we're most likely to need in the future. If we have to stash them on our practice squad, so be it. I think our practice squad this season is going to be extremely young instead of having a bunch of vets we're moving up and down every week.
 
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Stout

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I don't think we have a roster crunch. We only have 63 players under contract. I'm fine if we feel like we can't draft more off-ball linebackers on Saturday because we're stocked at the position.

In fact, I expect we'll see a lot more drafting for need, although the most obvious and pressing need might not come first. We want to get developmental prospects into our pipeline at the positions we're most likely to need in the future. If we have to stash them on our practice squad, so be it. I think our practice squad this season is going to be extremely young instead of having a bunch of vets we're moving up and down every week.
Fair opinion.
 

football karma

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i dunno

you look at the SB teams -- also SF as well as the perennially competitive teams: they have a bunch of starters that came from rounds 3-7 in the draft.

maybe we have been so conditioned to see third day picks go nowhere we dont value them
 

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The biggest issue with this draft is the disconnect between what scouts were scouting all year and what this new GM/staff actually want.

That said, I don't see many position groups that are prohibitive to drafting a player at them. This includes off-ball LB as I am not confident that either Simmons or Collins fits with Monti/Gannon.
 

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Common thought around her is that the Cards are thinking of trading back to get more high-end picks in this current draft. I think they might do so, and in so doing, they may pick up extra later picks too. I've thought of one problem with the idea of grabbing more late picks in combination with the FA "plan" thus far, though: A logjam of players at the low end of the roster. By signing so many special teams specialists, it could hinder the growth or even roster status of late-round picks, and we could lose out on a young contributor. This is a possible problem with what we're doing.

An alternative that might help with this potential problem, and a path that would add higher picks while avoiding passing on Anderson at 3, is to trade up. So we have the bottom-of-the-roster spots that are mostly special teamers overstocked? In that case, use our lower picks to move up. If we're worried our C won't be there in round 3, for example, package a few picks to move up in the 3rd or even into the back end of the 2nd. This might help us secure the top young talent we need in the draft while avoiding a logjam lower on the roster. I'd much rather come away from this draft with 3-4 players we think can either be straight-up studs or long-serving solid starters than a scattergun poke-and-hope method of drafting.

Thoughts?
with the composition of this draft we need as many picks as we can get in the top 90 or so IMO...after that all I really see are runningbacks and special teamers... so yeah, package up those later picks and move up into the meat..solid approach
 

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Common thought around her is that the Cards are thinking of trading back to get more high-end picks in this current draft. I think they might do so, and in so doing, they may pick up extra later picks too. I've thought of one problem with the idea of grabbing more late picks in combination with the FA "plan" thus far, though: A logjam of players at the low end of the roster. By signing so many special teams specialists, it could hinder the growth or even roster status of late-round picks, and we could lose out on a young contributor. This is a possible problem with what we're doing.

An alternative that might help with this potential problem, and a path that would add higher picks while avoiding passing on Anderson at 3, is to trade up. So we have the bottom-of-the-roster spots that are mostly special teamers overstocked? In that case, use our lower picks to move up. If we're worried our C won't be there in round 3, for example, package a few picks to move up in the 3rd or even into the back end of the 2nd. This might help us secure the top young talent we need in the draft while avoiding a logjam lower on the roster. I'd much rather come away from this draft with 3-4 players we think can either be straight-up studs or long-serving solid starters than a scattergun poke-and-hope method of drafting.

Thoughts?
It would have to be a knock out gotta have guy to move up. There’s just too much talent in the first 3 rounds and maybe beyond.
On the assumption we draft Anderson I want to see us get a solid starting center, DT and a light my fire Rb.
 

kerouac9

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You still scout all of the players. You should still have notes on everyone.
Yeah but you shift your priorities if you know specifically what you're looking for. The scouts are going to know what the coaches are looking for better after building the board, and then we'll fire half the scouts so that Monti can bring in his guys.

Especially because most of these coaches are learning each other and will continue to throughout the season. It's hard to build a real strategy if you're problem-solving week to week on how your defense is going to be structured. Then you go and tell your scouts to "go out and get the best guys" and everyone is super risk-averse.
 

Chopper0080

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You still scout all of the players. You should still have notes on everyone.
Probably the easiest way to explain why this matters...

"You can find a Cover 2 corner anywhere. I can go down to the 7-11 in Bloomington and get one." -- Mike Zimmer
 

MadCardDisease

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Yeah but you shift your priorities if you know specifically what you're looking for. The scouts are going to know what the coaches are looking for better after building the board, and then we'll fire half the scouts so that Monti can bring in his guys.

Especially because most of these coaches are learning each other and will continue to throughout the season. It's hard to build a real strategy if you're problem-solving week to week on how your defense is going to be structured. Then you go and tell your scouts to "go out and get the best guys" and everyone is super risk-averse.

Typically the coaches don't get involved in the scouting process until after the season is over. Where the Cardinals are behind the 8 ball is the GM getting the info that he needs on potential college studs that would fit the system during the season. Obviously Monti just joined the Cardinals and the new system that Gannon and his staff will run didn't fully exist until recently. However I'm pretty sure that Monti was getting info on draft prospects from the Titan's scouting department when he was with them so it's not like he is coming in cold Turkey. I'm guessing that the type of player that Monti looks for hasn't changed much since he joined the Cards. He just needs to marry up what he looks for in a player with that of his new coaches. The Cardinals scouting department should have a full report on every player available in the draft from every major team.

But yeah, there will be a ton of working going on as we speak as the Cards new front office starts to build their draft board and marry that to what the new staff is looking for in players. However I believe most of the scouting has been done and now it's a matter of figuring out which guys fits the system that Gannon wants to run. IMO there is plenty of time to figure that out even though Monti and his staff got a late start on the process.
 

Chopper0080

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Typically the coaches don't get involved in the scouting process until after the season is over. Where the Cardinals are behind the 8 ball is the GM getting the info that he needs on potential college studs that would fit the system during the season. Obviously Monti just joined the Cardinals and the new system that Gannon and his staff will run didn't fully exist until recently. However I'm pretty sure that Monti was getting info on draft prospects from the Titan's scouting department when he was with them so it's not like he is coming in cold Turkey. I'm guessing that the type of player that Monti looks for hasn't changed much since he joined the Cards. He just needs to marry up what he looks for in a player with that of his new coaches. The Cardinals scouting department should have a full report on every player available in the draft from every major team.

But yeah, there will be a ton of working going on as we speak as the Cards new front office starts to build their draft board and marry that to what the new staff is looking for in players. However I believe most of the scouting has been done and now it's a matter of figuring out which guys fits the system that Gannon wants to run. IMO there is plenty of time to figure that out even though Monti and his staff got a late start on the process.
I feel like you are underestimating how difficult this is. Especially bringing in some of these guys who people haven't significantly worked with before.
 

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Typically the coaches don't get involved in the scouting process until after the season is over. Where the Cardinals are behind the 8 ball is the GM getting the info that he needs on potential college studs that would fit the system during the season. Obviously Monti just joined the Cardinals and the new system that Gannon and his staff will run didn't fully exist until recently. However I'm pretty sure that Monti was getting info on draft prospects from the Titan's scouting department when he was with them so it's not like he is coming in cold Turkey. I'm guessing that the type of player that Monti looks for hasn't changed much since he joined the Cards. He just needs to marry up what he looks for in a player with that of his new coaches. The Cardinals scouting department should have a full report on every player available in the draft from every major team.

But yeah, there will be a ton of working going on as we speak as the Cards new front office starts to build their draft board and marry that to what the new staff is looking for in players. However I believe most of the scouting has been done and now it's a matter of figuring out which guys fits the system that Gannon wants to run. IMO there is plenty of time to figure that out even though Monti and his staff got a late start on the process.
Yeah sorry. There are 259 draft picks and probably another 200-300 undrafted free agents that need to be evaluated in detail.

Monti was director of player personnel in Tennessee which mostly dealt with guys already in the league. Unlikely he was deeply involved in prospect evaluation, especially when the team knew they were brining in a new boss.

I'm sure Monti has some idea of maybe the top 100 prospects, but the coaches have to define what their priorities are, and that matters for the ordering of the top 50 prospects plus the 100+ guys who are going to appear on your board but maybe not most other NFL teams.

Also, most of these coaches don't know each other, so they have to work on an understanding of the scheme that's being installed and what you're looking to prioritize in a prospect to work within that scheme.
 

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I like the idea of quality over quantity.
Say there’s a Bressee, Smith-njiba, Bijon(just throwing out guys I like) sitting there at 27, I would mind moving up if it cost just a later round pick.
 

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I feel like you are underestimating how difficult this is. Especially bringing in some of these guys who people haven't significantly worked with before.

Yeah I was more responding on the "What the Scouts are scouting all year" comment. The marrying up what the coaching staff wants to the draft prospect is definitely a major effort.
 

MadCardDisease

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Yeah sorry. There are 259 draft picks and probably another 200-300 undrafted free agents that need to be evaluated in detail.

Monti was director of player personnel in Tennessee which mostly dealt with guys already in the league. Unlikely he was deeply involved in prospect evaluation, especially when the team knew they were brining in a new boss.

I'm sure Monti has some idea of maybe the top 100 prospects, but the coaches have to define what their priorities are, and that matters for the ordering of the top 50 prospects plus the 100+ guys who are going to appear on your board but maybe not most other NFL teams.

Also, most of these coaches don't know each other, so they have to work on an understanding of the scheme that's being installed and what you're looking to prioritize in a prospect to work within that scheme.

Yeah I 100% agree there will be a ton of work left to do on that portion of the draft process. I was just saying the scouts scout a player regardless of system and they should already have info on each draft prospect for this year. But yes the "Does this draft prospect fit our system" work is still in process and is where Monti will start to make his name, good or bad.
 

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I feel like you are underestimating how difficult this is. Especially bringing in some of these guys who people haven't significantly worked with before.

Imo...humble as it may be... the similarities between Gannons defense and Josephs should make the transition easier than it looks at first glance.
Both defenses counted on pressure from the front four so the passive unbrella coverage didnt get exploited. Unfortunately Joseph didnt have the guys up front to get that pressure so he had to manufacture it.
But the player profiles are the same. Dline that can penetrate, linebackers with coverage skills, and zone corners with ball skills and recovery speed.
Most of those traits outside of the Dline arent that hard to find. But when you start adding in leadership and "we Vs me" type personalities with high football intelligence it gets harder.
 

Chopper0080

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Imo...humble as it may be... the similarities between Gannons defense and Josephs should make the transition easier than it looks at first glance.
Both defenses counted on pressure from the front four so the passive unbrella coverage didnt get exploited. Unfortunately Joseph didnt have the guys up front to get that pressure so he had to manufacture it.
But the player profiles are the same. Dline that can penetrate, linebackers with coverage skills, and zone corners with ball skills and recovery speed.
Most of those traits outside of the Dline arent that hard to find. But when you start adding in leadership and "we Vs me" type personalities with high football intelligence it gets harder.
Odd-front to even-front is tough. How you ask you ask your CBs to play is as important as the coverage. Also, position coaches prefer different things from the guys they are coaching up. There is just a lot to it.

And if we remember, Gannon is a "adjust the scheme to the players" guy which sometimes makes pinning down what type of players he wants difficult.
 
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