Air tight office

NashDishesDimes

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The one bright side of this drawn out Durant watch is that the front office/players/staff have been very tight lipped. Bad organizations leak all the time. Suns guys always used to be in the rumor mill because of leaks; to the point where i think players just wanted out…tyson chandler, goran, bledsoe, etc. id say this is especially impressive since theyve actually had national spotlight the last few years too…

Disclaimer: still think JJ/office sucks:
-give away TJ for cash
-pass on haliburton for jaylen then cut him
 

JerkFace

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Disclaimer: still think JJ/office sucks:
-give away TJ for cash
-pass on haliburton for jaylen then cut him

- Cash (cap space) that was then used to sign Rubio.
- Haliburton was coming off a serious wrist injury that forced him to sit out the majority of his final college season and then refused to show his medicals to the Suns (and others). The Jalen pick/declining of option was a mistake, but I don’t think it puts JJ into the “sucks” category when you consider everything else that he has done.
 
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Hoop Head

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- Cash (cap space) that was then used to sign Rubio.

I believe there was a handshake deal made with Indiana over that deal that involved Indiana not pursuing Rubio as well. Of course we'll never know because that's against league rules but I remember that off-season well and Indiana were rumored to be Rubio's main suitor. Free agency opened and word of them acquiring Brogdan was one of the first pieces that dropped as far as league wide acquisitions.

Rubio wasn't even mentioned or teased as a Suns target before that summer, which is another thing that can be pointed to as far as the tight lipped manner the Suns FO conducts things.

The Suns needed a PG and I remember Rozier as a name linked to us and fans wanted almost anyone else. Brogdan was a name mentioned some but he was restricted and a lot of people didn't think the Suns could afford an offer Milwaukee wouldn't match.

If Indiana gets gifted Warren and a high 2nd rounder for nothing but to change their PG option then I could see them making a run for Brogdan instead because he'd fit their timeline better than Rubio and also frees up more space for Warren in the midrange than Ricky would.

If you look at the deal closer, the Pacers gave up a late 1st and 2 2nd rounders for Brogdan from Milwaukee. They got 2 2nd round picks from us in the Warren trade because the Suns selected KZ Okpala at #32 and he went to Miami in exchange for 3 future 2nds that went to Indiana. So Indiana really ended up swapping a late 1st for a 2nd rounder for Brogdan if you look at both deals together, the Warren trade and the Brogdan S&T. That's not much at all for a restricted FA.

Anyways, I've always theorized this. May be nothing, may be something. Who knows.
 

Hoop Head

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Ultimately the Suns did not trade Warren for nothing though. They freed cap space they immediately used to sign Rubio, who they could not have afforded without shedding around $10 million in salary, which was a little less than TJ made and they didn't have many movable assets. They had a logjam at Forward though having drafted Cam Johnson while having Mikal, Oubre, and Josh Jackson also on the roster. They hadn't completely given up on JJ yet but most of the league had.
 

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I think Warren had no place on this roster. The guy played in slow motion and never passed the ball. I bet one of the first things the new staff told Jones was to dump Warren.

He had a decent individual season that first year gone and he has played a grand total of 4 games since.
 
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NashDishesDimes

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the sickening part is not that they got rid of TJ to free up space for Rubio, its that they literally gave him away. Explain to me how TJ had no value? Lol. If that guy was healthy right now he would probably get $80m contract in this environment. Although Hoopshead above had interesting theory on essentially just ‘buying Rubio’ away from Pacers - that could make some sense
 

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the sickening part is not that they got rid of TJ to free up space for Rubio, its that they literally gave him away. Explain to me how TJ had no value? Lol. If that guy was healthy right now he would probably get $80m contract in this environment. Although Hoopshead above had interesting theory on essentially just ‘buying Rubio’ away from Pacers - that could make some sense
They'd been trying to trade him, that didn't just happen out of the blue. There was absolutely no market for a player that had one mysterious injury after another. If we'd waited and hoped his play created interest I'm sure we could have picked up a lottery protected pick for him. But we needed the Cap space that offseason to address a positional need.
 

itlnsunsfan

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the sickening part is not that they got rid of TJ to free up space for Rubio, its that they literally gave him away. Explain to me how TJ had no value? Lol. If that guy was healthy right now he would probably get $80m contract in this environment. Although Hoopshead above had interesting theory on essentially just ‘buying Rubio’ away from Pacers - that could make some sense
He's supposedly healthy now, and just signed a 1 year vet minimum contract.
 

Phrazbit

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the sickening part is not that they got rid of TJ to free up space for Rubio, its that they literally gave him away. Explain to me how TJ had no value? Lol. If that guy was healthy right now he would probably get $80m contract in this environment. Although Hoopshead above had interesting theory on essentially just ‘buying Rubio’ away from Pacers - that could make some sense

TJ Warren does one thing consistently well... score in isolation. It is an outdated skill with very little value in the modern NBA.

Is he a good defender? Nope, very bad on that end.
Is he a good rebounder? No, he's terrible.
Is he good at passing? No, in fact, he has rated among the most selfish players in the NBA throughout his career.
Is he injury prone? Does the Pope **** in the woods?

That is why he was given away.

The Pacers just got done paying TJ Warren 35 million dollars for a grand total of 71 games!

If time were rewound and the Pacers were offered that trade again, knowing what they know now, they would tell us to go straight to hell.
 

Hoop Head

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I liked T.J. as a Sun but dude had problems staying healthy. He misses 43% of games each season, which is insane. He averages 47 games a season through his 7 year career. A player like that can not be counted on.
 

Mainstreet

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The one bright side of this drawn out Durant watch is that the front office/players/staff have been very tight lipped. Bad organizations leak all the time. Suns guys always used to be in the rumor mill because of leaks; to the point where i think players just wanted out…tyson chandler, goran, bledsoe, etc. id say this is especially impressive since theyve actually had national spotlight the last few years too…

Disclaimer: still think JJ/office sucks:
-give away TJ for cash
-pass on haliburton for jaylen then cut him

I hear posters complain on the Cardinals forum about their front office being tight lipped as well.

Over the years I would think the local media would have developed more peripheral contacts.
 

Bufalay

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TJ Warren does one thing consistently well... score in isolation. It is an outdated skill with very little value in the modern NBA.

Is he a good defender? Nope, very bad on that end.
Is he a good rebounder? No, he's terrible.
Is he good at passing? No, in fact, he has rated among the most selfish players in the NBA throughout his career.
Is he injury prone? Does the Pope **** in the woods?

That is why he was given away.

The Pacers just got done paying TJ Warren 35 million dollars for a grand total of 71 games!

If time were rewound and the Pacers were offered that trade again, knowing what they know now, they would tell us to go straight to hell.
He also become a really good three point shooter.
 

AzStevenCal

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He also become a really good three point shooter.
I think that's a bit strong. At his most prolific we're only talking 3 or 4 attempts per game. You typically get pretty open looks when you're only making 1 or 2 a game. And he's only made a total of 247 three pointers for his career so it's not like it's something the defense is prepared to take away.
 
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NashDishesDimes

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I mean TJ’s ‘mysterious’ injuries i think were a lot of Suns just tanking and shutting him down. As for the recent injuries, those dont matter because thats hindsight. At the time, the guy absolutely had a real value. Hed be a good sixth man on any team. He was lighting it up for pacers in the bubble season. Cant convince me the guy had no value…
 

SirStefan32

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I mean TJ’s ‘mysterious’ injuries i think were a lot of Suns just tanking and shutting him down. As for the recent injuries, those dont matter because thats hindsight. At the time, the guy absolutely had a real value. Hed be a good sixth man on any team. He was lighting it up for pacers in the bubble season. Cant convince me the guy had no value…

There was no money to sign Rubio had TJ gotten anything in return. It wasn't a TJ for nothing trade- it was TJ for Rubio. TJ salary dump was the first step. Signing Rubio was second. Suns had no point guard, and nobody was trading a starting PG for a SF with mysterious injuries. For the life of me, I don't understand how people don't see this years later.
 

AzStevenCal

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I mean TJ’s ‘mysterious’ injuries i think were a lot of Suns just tanking and shutting him down. As for the recent injuries, those dont matter because thats hindsight. At the time, the guy absolutely had a real value. Hed be a good sixth man on any team. He was lighting it up for pacers in the bubble season. Cant convince me the guy had no value…
No, a couple of those mysterious injuries greatly contributed to the disappointing starts that resulted in us going into tank mode. Until Oubre, TJ was the only weapon that could possibly take away defensive attention on Devin. We weren't going to be good even if he'd played every night but had he been able to play regularly we might even have made it to April without looking like a tank job was our only option.
 

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Injuries aside, I think Warren's game took a dramatic step forward when he went to the Pacers. At times he was almost unstoppable during the 2019-20 season.
 

Superbone

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TJ Warren does one thing consistently well... score in isolation. It is an outdated skill with very little value in the modern NBA.

Is he a good defender? Nope, very bad on that end.
Is he a good rebounder? No, he's terrible.
Is he good at passing? No, in fact, he has rated among the most selfish players in the NBA throughout his career.
Is he injury prone? Does the Pope **** in the woods?

That is why he was given away.

The Pacers just got done paying TJ Warren 35 million dollars for a grand total of 71 games!

If time were rewound and the Pacers were offered that trade again, knowing what they know now, they would tell us to go straight to hell.
Don't forget he's really good at leading the league in head injuries.
 
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NashDishesDimes

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There was no money to sign Rubio had TJ gotten anything in return. It wasn't a TJ for nothing trade- it was TJ for Rubio. TJ salary dump was the first step. Signing Rubio was second. Suns had no point guard, and nobody was trading a starting PG for a SF with mysterious injuries. For the life of me, I don't understand how people don't see this years later.

Well okay, that makes some sense. But then i would say why doesnt that happen all the time? Ive never seen a player with value get given away until TJ, never. Im no expert but couldnt they have traded him for a pick and a guy that was willing to accept a buyout? Im sure there are plenty of those. I see some valid rationale on some of peoples points here but still doesnt convince me…
Lets just give away cam johnson because we would rather have salary cap relief - that just doesnt happen
 

Chaplin

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This post leads me to tie in your observation with something else related: the fact that the entire franchise--players, coach, front office--are mysteriously refusing to communicate about what really happened to cause the Suns' shameful playoff defeat. Not only is absolutely nothing being said officially or unofficially, anyone who does speak gives only smug and breezy denials than anything was ever wrong. I appreciate Devin Booker, but his smug "We okay?" post on social media accomplished nothing helpful. No, Devin Booker, we're not okay when you insult our intelligence. Chris Paul's "it's only basketball" remark was almost as bad: rich, coming from a man so competitive that you could think basketball is life-and-death to him.

Anyway, it seriously makes me wonder if a gag order, a policy of not speaking candidly with the public about anything, was issued from the top. If that were the case, perhaps it could be because Robert Sarver is in trouble and wants to keep the wagons circled.
You definitely haven't been a fan of this team for a long time -- James Jones' front office is notoriously tight lipped about the goings on behind the scenes -- always has been since he took over from McIdiot.

I find it funny how you make big proclamations yet you yourself admitted you haven't followed or been a fan of this team since Steve Nash was here.
 

SirStefan32

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Well okay, that makes some sense. But then i would say why doesnt that happen all the time? Ive never seen a player with value get given away until TJ, never. Im no expert but couldnt they have traded him for a pick and a guy that was willing to accept a buyout? Im sure there are plenty of those. I see some valid rationale on some of peoples points here but still doesnt convince me…
Lets just give away cam johnson because we would rather have salary cap relief - that just doesnt happen
Pick equals money that counts against the cap. I want to say "Cap Hold" is the proper term, but I am not sure. If you buy someone out, what's the point of trading for him?

As for the last statement, Suns have done that in D'Antoni days. Warren, however, was a completely different scenario. They needed 100% of his salary gone so they could sign Rubio.
 

JCSunsfan

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TJ Warren does one thing consistently well... score in isolation. It is an outdated skill with very little value in the modern NBA.

Is he a good defender? Nope, very bad on that end.
Is he a good rebounder? No, he's terrible.
Is he good at passing? No, in fact, he has rated among the most selfish players in the NBA throughout his career.
Is he injury prone? Does the Pope **** in the woods?

That is why he was given away.

The Pacers just got done paying TJ Warren 35 million dollars for a grand total of 71 games!

If time were rewound and the Pacers were offered that trade again, knowing what they know now, they would tell us to go straight to hell.
TJ had one fantastic skill. He was a prolific scorer without dominating the ball. He was not really an iso scorer. He did not receive and pound the ball. He always seemed to catch the ball and put it in the hoop almost before you could blink. He had a lot of promise. His main problem has always been mysterious injuries, not his play on the court.
 

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Since I wasn't there, I have no idea what kept happening to T.J. Warren's head. For all I know, he's just as unlucky as Danny Manning. He apparently injured his head again in Indiana https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/02/02/pacers-t-j-warren-head-injury/; but as you can see, that was certainly a legitimate injury--concussion. Later, https://www.fieldhousefiles.com/p/pacers-forward-tj-warren-is-away?s=r he broke his foot. I'm not blaming him for getting injured any more than I would blame Chris Paul for having CV if he had it. (However, I do blame him for refusing to discuss whether he had it.)

Warren's "problem" is that he's uncommunicative--the second article stated that he is a "very private person," very quiet. Also "basketball is everything to Warren. He’s a gym rat, and it’s his escape. When healthy, he’ll play anywhere anytime." People probably wouldn't be so mad at him about the head injuries if he had bothered to speak up and tell fans what happened.

We've had quiet, uncommunicative Suns players for at least the last decade; players who have no interest in communicating publicly like past Suns players did. I swear, the only time I personally saw Eric Bledsoe open his mouth was to yell "son of a bitch" at Kobe Bryant. (Yes, that's hilarious in retrospect.) And more recently, it's interesting to me that for being such a pompous, "be legendary" player on the court, Devin Booker has relatively little to say off it. It happens so often that I've started to suspect it's policy, an order from above. In addition to, of course, just having quiet personalities. They make Steve Nash's players and especially Charles Barkley's group seem positively chatty. You can tell me that they aren't obligated to speak and it's true; but what can I say--I grew up with Suns players who spoke freely.

As for Warren...I still would have given him another shot, gambling on the injuries, if he hadn't wanted much money. It would have been all about the price.
 
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