A vote for Quinnen Williams

Delmar M Lewis

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  • The people who don't control the football can be schemed out of a game.
  • The people who do control the football..... cannot be.
Aaron Donald = 2 Wins above replacement.
Replacement = The league average version of Aaron Donald

Patrick Mahomes = 8 Wins above replacement.

https://economics.missouri.edu/paper/wp-14-10
Yep right after the other team scores
 

TheCardFan

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  • The people who don't control the football can be schemed out of a game.
  • The people who do control the football..... cannot be.
Aaron Donald = 2 Wins above replacement.
Replacement = The league average version of Aaron Donald

Patrick Mahomes = 8 Wins above replacement.

https://economics.missouri.edu/paper/wp-14-10

The real question is Murray's WAR vs Rosen's in the new offense.

If Rosen, then add in WAR for Q or Bosa too vs Murray.
 

HeHasRosen

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  • The people who don't control the football can be schemed out of a game.
  • The people who do control the football..... cannot be.
Aaron Donald = 2 Wins above replacement.
Replacement = The league average version of Aaron Donald

Patrick Mahomes = 8 Wins above replacement.

https://economics.missouri.edu/paper/wp-14-10

Yeah well i saw a game (orange bowl) where said QB lost in large part to one QW. He wrecked that game and Murray. QB is the most important position yes, but getting after the QB is a close 2nd WAR be damned. Ask Tom Brady in those 2 super bowl losses to the giants. QW is a much better bet to be dominant than your boy Murray.
 

Ohcrap75

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One thing that I has made me a fan of QW is his back story. He lost his mother to cancer when he was 12. He shut down and still can't bring himself to talk about her death. He lived in the weight room in High School to deal with the grief. He writes her initials on his wrist tape before every game.

So many times when I watch Hall of Fame speeches, so many have overcome adversity and have something during their journey childhood that drives them. When I first watched tape and then read about this, and now seeing him in interviews and teammates raving about his film work and technique I can't help but to think there is something special about this kid!
 

Finito

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What changed your mind? I think he has a very high ceiling as well, but if you look at his body (including biceps) there is no muscle definition. He wasn’t on the field for a lot of plays because of his conditioning. If he played out of shape last year it makes you wonder what kind of dominance he could have had if he was more hungry/disciplined as a football player.

Many people don’t talk about red flags with Q.W. but I think there are reasons for concern.

Regarding his interviews, I probably shouldn’t put much stock into this but I can’t help but portray him in a somewhat negative light because of how ignorant he sounds when he speaks.

He could turn out to be a stud, but I think the Murray/Russell Wilson comps are more accurate than the Q.W./Aaron Donald comps. JMO.

This kills me. Defensive tackles regularly rotate out, Donald does, Suh does they all do. The really good teams like Alabama keep a rotation so the offensive line is always up against fresh lineman this helps especially late in the game.

He’s not out of shape and big sloppy dude he’s just a big dude there’s a difference. You don’t dominate like he does being out of shape.

Sounds ignorant? I’m not even going to comment on this
 

GuernseyCard

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Every time I see this kid make a media appearance I'm more impressed. He was on GMFB this a.m. and they asked why he is the best defender in this draft. He exudes supreme self-confidence without an ounce of arrogance. Seems to have a fantastic personality. I think he has everything to be the face of the franchise when Larry eventually retires. And he provides something that has been missing since at least the departure of Calais Campbell, if not Darnell Dockett - a disruptive presence in the interior of the d-line. What does Tom Brady fear most? Pressure up the middle. It would be nice to get that without blitzing all the time.

One thing I'm convinced of: Passing on him would carry the most negative repercussions for the Cardinals going forward versus passing on Nick Bosa or Kyler Murray. It is not pleasurable to think of facing his disruptive presence in the center of the Niner D-line for the next 10-15 years. It is bad enough having to deal with Aaron Donald in this division. It would be the Russell Wilson experience all over again. "Tell me again why we didn't draft Russell Wilson?

Of course taking Williams doesn't totally preclude getting Murray if Oakland passes on him. Of course that likely costs next year's #1 and more to move back into the first round.

Why didn't we draft Wilson?

For the umpteen time: we didn't have a second round pick; he was gone when we selected in the third and obviously no team had a first round grade on him.
 

JeffGollin

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The preponderance of love recently given to Murray by the scouting community, if accurate, is worth taking seriously.

But always lurking in the background of any discussion has to be lack of size
 

Dr. Jones

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Patrick Mahomes isn’t in this draft, nor is there a talent equivalent to him

And you think Murray can be Patrick Mahomes?:thud::thud::thud:

Pat wasn't Pat until he started. Same for Baker.

Same will be true for Kyler.

Josh had the worst season (Statistically) of any QB in the league last year from an advanced analytics perspective.

Him becoming the NFL Average QB would be a MONSTER improvement over year one. But still leave him way short of being a true difference maker at the most important position on the field.
 

Dr. Jones

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You know what drives me crazy? Voting for Quinnen Williams.

How can anyone say Kyler looked like crap against Bama (when he didn't) but then prop QW up after his play in the two BCS bowl games?

Oklahoma game: 0 Tackles. 1 Asst tackle. No TFL.
Clemson: 3 tackles. 1 Asst tackle. 1.5 TFL.

Again.... You can scheme good defensive players straight out of the game. College, Pro, anywhere. Will they be disruptive on 5 to 10 snaps? Sure. But when you only play half of the snaps as it is, then you are only affecting 10% of the overall play count.

Q & NB will never have the snap to snap impact that a QB will have. It's just not possible. Andy Dalton & Joe freaking Flacco affect more outcomes than Aaron Donald.
 

DVontel

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You know what drives me crazy? Voting for Quinnen Williams.

How can anyone say Kyler looked like crap against Bama (when he didn't) but then prop QW up after his play in the two BCS bowl games?

Oklahoma game: 0 Tackles. 1 Asst tackle. No TFL.
Clemson: 3 tackles. 1 Asst tackle. 1.5 TFL.

Again.... You can scheme good defensive players straight out of the game. College, Pro, anywhere. Will they be disruptive on 5 to 10 snaps? Sure. But when you only play half of the snaps as it is, then you are only affecting 10% of the overall play count.

Q & NB will never have the snap to snap impact that a QB will have. It's just not possible. Andy Dalton & Joe freaking Flacco affect more outcomes than Aaron Donald.
Probably because context actually exists especially if you watched the games live.
 

Dr. Jones

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Probably because context actually exists especially if you watched the games live.

Hypocrisy. Say that about Kyler's performance in the Alabama game and the doubters light up like a Christmas tree. And he played every snap.

No way in blue hell you can watch QW vs OU & say he didn´t become a thorn all game.

Only DL that did worth a crap vs Clemson, too.


He only played half the snaps.

HALF
 

Jetstream Green

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Probably because context actually exists especially if you watched the games live.
It's not about stats always with a big guy but how he is occupying the OL to free other people to get pressure, pushing the pocket and changing the overall dynamics of a offense... which Calais Campbell even on the end did a lot of which could not be measured by his stats
 

BirdDroppings

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  • The people who don't control the football can be schemed out of a game.
  • The people who do control the football..... cannot be.
Aaron Donald = 2 Wins above replacement.
Replacement = The league average version of Aaron Donald

Patrick Mahomes = 8 Wins above replacement.

https://economics.missouri.edu/paper/wp-14-10

In their own abstract, they say that it's the first attempt to measure win replacement in football and that it's highly context-dependent to even attempt to do so. Point being it's a statistic with no established merit so I don't care how many wins above replacement they think Mahomes is.

Case in point he was only 2 wins better in 2018 than Alex Smith was in 2017. Smith who, in my mind and most other peoples minds is the epitome of a replacement level starting QB. It seems to me that if Mahomes is "8 wins above replacement" they are using all QBs, backup and starter to form their numbers and that simply doesn't work with the QB position as 2/3rd of the QBs in the league aren't there to actually start normally.
 

Dr. Jones

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In their own abstract, they say that it's the first attempt to measure win replacement in football and that it's highly context-dependent to even attempt to do so. Point being it's a statistic with no established merit so I don't care how many wins above replacement they think Mahomes is.

Case in point he was only 2 wins above Alex Smith, who in my mind and most other peoples minds is the epitome of a replacement level starting QB. It seems to me that if Mahomes is "8 wins above replacement" they are using all QBs, backup and starter to form their numbers and that simply doesn't work with the QB position as 2/3rd of the QBs in the league aren't there to actually start normally.
Josh Rosen wishes to attain Alex Smith level production.

And that's not hyperbole..... The dude was HORRIBLE in every measurable situation last year. pressure, no pressure, moving, stationary, road, home, EVERYTHING. Fixing our line is a false flag. Pinning your hopes on scheme and protection fails to see the whole board. Our guy was a huge part of the problem.
 
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