2024 wasn't "a collapse." The Cardinals were average and are now a playoff team.

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

They didn’t return the INTs for TDs. MINN was a top 5 defense at the time. Also, before the intentional grounding the refs made the wrong call on Tip Reiman for false start. It was an obvious off sides. That made it 2nd and GL from the 10 instead of 2nd and GL from the 2 in a half yard line.

MINN had to move the ball constantly to make their comeback and thats what they did.

Especially after we had another lead following the FG. The Cardinals offense scored 23 pts vs a top 5 def in one of the hardest place to play and lost. The two INTs is not the reason. The Vikings took our tired, injured, depth prone defense down the length of the field multiple times.

23 pts in MINN vs that def when our running game torches their top 5 rush def (despite you saying our oline crumbled at the end of the year) makes it much more of the defenses fault.

I could only wonder what your reaction would be if Kyler had a game like Darnold did vs JAX. Where they win 12-7 when Darnold throws 3 INTs and they score 0 tds vs Mac Jones.

Or when SEA beats CHI 6-3

Or when Stafford beats SF 12-6 vs Purdy and then beats us 13-9.

What exceptional QB play in those games. Your absolutely insane to put the offense on the same level of fault as the defense vs MINN.

Darnold is very beatable with the talent we added on defense. Your argument here is just convoluted against Murray for no reason. The offense did better than expected. The defense collapsed in the 2nd half. End of story.

You think you are some sort of know it all but you don’t even realize our offensive line was rated in the top 15 by multiple respectable sources.

You are nitpicking that because you are just a constant negative nancy. Your facts are genuinely incomplete and your opinions like the oline crumbling are often backed by nothing.

Stout, I think he loves you!

 

[oaken1]

I'm not ChatGPT, but let's see what I can do, just comparing a few stats. Pro-football-reference doesn't allow you to aggregate stats over multiple discrete ranges, so I got very close approximations by aggregating season-by-season or month-by-month, then calculating weighted averages based on the number of games played in each group.

Murray career pre/post Call of Duty release*:
- pre (37 games): 21-15-1 record (.581), 56 TD, 25 INT (2.24:1), 7.2 y/a, 94.5 passer rating
- post (45 games): 15-30 record (.333), 59 TD, 32 INT (1.84:1), 6.8 y/a, 90.5 passer rating

Darnold career Sep-Oct / Nov-Jan:
- early (36 games): 17-19 record (.472), 40 TD, 37 INT (1.08:1), 6.8 y/a, 78.6 passer rating
- late (47 games): 26-21 record (.553), 58 TD, 31 INT (1.87:1), 7.1 y/a, 88.4 passer rating

Tagovailoa career Sep-Oct / Nov-Jan:
- early (23 games): 14-9 record (.609), 40 TD, 18 INT (2.22:1), 8.2 y/a, 101.9 passer rating
- late (41 games): 26-15 record (.634), 60 TD, 26 INT (2.31:1), 7.3 y/a, 96.6 passer rating

Lawrence career Sep-Oct / Nov-Jan:
- early (31 games): 11-20 record (.355), 38 TD, 23 INT (1.65:1), 6.9 y/a, 86.5 passer rating
- late (29 games): 11-18 record (.379), 31 TD, 23 INT (1.35:1), 6.7 y/a, 83.6 passer rating

Comparison:
Murray's W-L percentage drops by .248 (!), while each of the other three's W-L percentage improves by .047 on average. Murray is by miles the worst of the four.

Muray's TD:INT ratio drops by 0.4, while Darnold's and Tagovailoa's improve by .485 and Lawrence's drops by 0.3. Murray is the worst of the four.

Murray's yards per attempt drops by 0.4. Darnod's increases by 0.3, Tagovailoas's drops by 0.9, and Lawrence's drops by 0.2. Murray ranks third out of the four.

Murray's passer rating drops by 4 points. Darnold's increases by 9.8, Tagovailoa's drops by 5.3, and Lawrence's drops by 2.9. Murray ranks third out of the four.

Is that what you were looking for?


* 25 Oct 2019, 13 Nov 2020, 5 Nov 2021, 10 Nov 2023, and 25 Oct 2024... so, basically similar to the Sep-Oct vs. Nov-Jan split for the others.

1 guy out of that group gets better as the season progresses....and its the guy that some on here are claiming cannot lead seattle to the playoffs or even victory over us...lmao...
I was advocating for trading up for Sam Darnold in the draft...and I would still take him today.

 

[Stout]

Stout, I think he loves you!

I didn't even know he was addressing me. Couldn't care less

 

[cardinals2025]

1 guy out of that group gets better as the season progresses....and its the guy that some on here are claiming cannot lead seattle to the playoffs or even victory over us...lmao...
I was advocating for trading up for Sam Darnold in the draft...and I would still take him today.

I think Darnold can be better than Stafford, especially vs us. Stafford is in decline, we limited Davante Adams when he was on NYJ, and we outscored LAR 50-23 in the 2 games. Literally a helmet away from sweeping them. Whatever Rallis is doing vs Mcvay, it worked brilliantly last year.

SEA is our toughest opponent in the division, especially because their pass rush has had our number and they have the best defense. That said, Darnold has to prove he can beat the Rams and figure out their defense. Every position on the offense is a downgrade for Darnold, including the offensive line and offensive coordinator.

The MINN 2nd WR Addison was on pace to outdo JSN until he got hurt.

Personally I have SEA getting the 3rd wildcard above the Rams because of divisional or conference record with 9 wins.

The Rams who won 4 divisional games by a grand total of like 12 points and have the toughest schedule out of all of us.

Stafford didn't deserve to beat SF with Purdy 12-6 AND beat AZ 13-9.

That said, Klint Kubiak runs a 12 and 13 personnel offense mostly, which our defense practices against every day.

In fact, his Saints offense was 2nd or 1st in number of plays with those 2 personnel packages. Like 65%.

We are capable of limiting him just like we did through 3 quarters last year without a pass rush.

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Check out the tape for yourself. Darnold had nowhere to throw must of the time with our 3 safety deep concept.

SEA will always be the biggest threat because of their defense and our issues vs their d line.

Darnold is capable but I don't see him winning the division in year 1 in a new system with a downgraded offense.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Another good video here too on Kubiak's offense last year with NO.

Similar personnel to AZ but much more motion with the WRs and RBs to establish blockers and set up PA Pass.

 

[cardinals2025]

I think we're confusing causes and effects here. Kyler's late-season swoon causes us to be an average team when we could have been an above-average team (which I assume means a playoff team). They are not independent variables. If you dropped a league-average QB (say Darnold, Tua, or Lawrence) into the same situation, I don't think the results are much different. I think that shows that not only are the Cards an average team, but Kyler is a pretty average quarterback.

Saying "We have an above average team" probably needs some explication here. I don't know if that's the case. We improved in our weakest area (defensive line/front five), but going from average to above-average projects improvement from prospects (Nolen, Robinson, Ojulari) that haven't manifest. If we'd just added Sweat, Tomlinson, and Campbell, I think we move from below-average on defensive front five to average.

1.

I can't have a debate with someone who doesn't understand context. You don't consider multiple factors. You strictly blame the QB like a 12 year old fan who has his jersey.

For instance, Kyler is not to blame for certain games that the defense played like a college team in. For instance the 36-33 loss to CAR. It doesn't matter if he threw INTs in that game either. What matters is he put up enough pts to win and even got us in position to force OT with a long Ryland FG. "MOST" of the Panthers pts were a result of our defense playing bad.

33 PTS vs the Panthers even with 2 INTs is a Game Kyler deserves to win.

You wouldn't say Mahomes should have lost to the Panthers when he beat them 28-23 would you?

So unless you are going to break down every game and tell me exactly why 1 person or the offense line (which did not crumble) was to blame, this is just pointless.



2.

The difference between average and above average is seen in the record from 2020 compared to 2021 and the modest gains on defense we made.

I will repeat, the offense in 2021 scored MORE pts on LESS yards. This happened after the defense improved in many categories.

And Kyler finished the year bad. This same thing can happen again with a different playoff result.



Not only do you not want to use context, you never address my counter arguements I keep making over and over again.

 

[cardinals2025]

i asked a.i.

You must be registered for see images attach

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here's the link to the you tube which apparently a.i. takes as gospel for some reason

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Kerouac do you see this? "CONTEXT" IS LITERALLY IN THE ANSWER.

The problem with AI is if people agree with it they like your comment and if they don't, they say its "AI" can't trust that.

I could give a synopsis of every game in the 2nd half of the season and have AI determine how much Kyler Murray is at fault.

But the fact is we already know he was partially at fault and the defense was partially at fault, depending on the game.

 

[cardinals2025]

I'm not ChatGPT, but let's see what I can do, just comparing a few stats. Pro-football-reference doesn't allow you to aggregate stats over multiple discrete ranges, so I got very close approximations by aggregating season-by-season or month-by-month, then calculating weighted averages based on the number of games played in each group.

Murray career pre/post Call of Duty release*:
- pre (37 games): 21-15-1 record (.581), 56 TD, 25 INT (2.24:1), 7.2 y/a, 94.5 passer rating
- post (45 games): 15-30 record (.333), 59 TD, 32 INT (1.84:1), 6.8 y/a, 90.5 passer rating

Darnold career Sep-Oct / Nov-Jan:
- early (36 games): 17-19 record (.472), 40 TD, 37 INT (1.08:1), 6.8 y/a, 78.6 passer rating
- late (47 games): 26-21 record (.553), 58 TD, 31 INT (1.87:1), 7.1 y/a, 88.4 passer rating

Tagovailoa career Sep-Oct / Nov-Jan:
- early (23 games): 14-9 record (.609), 40 TD, 18 INT (2.22:1), 8.2 y/a, 101.9 passer rating
- late (41 games): 26-15 record (.634), 60 TD, 26 INT (2.31:1), 7.3 y/a, 96.6 passer rating

Lawrence career Sep-Oct / Nov-Jan:
- early (31 games): 11-20 record (.355), 38 TD, 23 INT (1.65:1), 6.9 y/a, 86.5 passer rating
- late (29 games): 11-18 record (.379), 31 TD, 23 INT (1.35:1), 6.7 y/a, 83.6 passer rating

Comparison:
Murray's W-L percentage drops by .248 (!), while each of the other three's W-L percentage improves by .047 on average. Murray is by miles the worst of the four.

Muray's TD:INT ratio drops by 0.4, while Darnold's and Tagovailoa's improve by .485 and Lawrence's drops by 0.3. Murray is the worst of the four.

Murray's yards per attempt drops by 0.4. Darnod's increases by 0.3, Tagovailoas's drops by 0.9, and Lawrence's drops by 0.2. Murray ranks third out of the four.

Murray's passer rating drops by 4 points. Darnold's increases by 9.8, Tagovailoa's drops by 5.3, and Lawrence's drops by 2.9. Murray ranks third out of the four.

Is that what you were looking for?


* 25 Oct 2019, 13 Nov 2020, 5 Nov 2021, 10 Nov 2023, and 25 Oct 2024... so, basically similar to the Sep-Oct vs. Nov-Jan split for the others.

COD is not the reason lol

The one exception to Darnold's end of year success is last season, the final game and the playoff game.

Not saying Murray doesn't have 2nd half issues but Darnold had a dominant defense last year and one year in particular with the Jets.

There were probably alot of games also with the Jets at the end that had no impact where playoff teams rested their starters vs them.

Also I am pretty sure all of those QBs have had better defenses than Kyler for their career. Definitely Tua and prob even Lawrence.


Someone needs to show the difference between Jalen Hurts and Kyler Murray solely based on the defenses they have had for their careers.

Maybe I will rank QBs by the defense they have had.

 

[BirdGangThing]

holy guacamole i needs my asfn

 

[CardNots]

SEA is our toughest opponent in the division, especially because their pass rush has had our number and they have the best defense.

hmmm, I’m not convinced.