2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

95pro

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I’ve heard the exact opposite

They would be beyond stupid to keep CP38 over a 24 year old Ayton just for asset alone.

If they try and run CP3 out there it’s over. I won’t even watch cause there’s no point. You can’t play two guys like Booker and KD with CP3 and his slow pace. Your handcuffing yourself

I did too until today.

I think we all agree that cp3 needs to go, but we can't just let him walk.
 

cheesebeef

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Paul has proven he cannot handle the load of a regular season and playoffs, and even if he gets breaks during the season, he inevitably falls apart at the most important part of the year.

How many times can we watch the same show and expecting different results?
Yeah… even if Book/KD/Paul meshed great together, at the end of the day Paul will never make it through the playoffs without missing important games. Can’t be dependent on one of your Big 3 who a) isn’t even close to what he used to be and b) can’t stay healthy at the end seasons.

That’s an exercise in futility.
 

Yuma

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Yeah… even if Book/KD/Paul meshed great together, at the end of the day Paul will never make it through the playoffs without missing important games. Can’t be dependent on one of your Big 3 who a) isn’t even close to what he used to be and b) can’t stay healthy at the end seasons.

That’s an exercise in futility.
I am to the point he is really best playing 10 minutes a night for us. The last 5 of the half, and the last 5 of the game. Then you have to mothball him the rest of the time. Heck, he was out for a LONG time for us this last season and still was injured in the playoffs. Guy has to redo his training regime, or play a different style that minimizes his being hurt.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Guy has to redo his training regime, or play a different style that minimizes his being hurt.
Nothing will change the fact that he's like 5'10, under 200, and 38. He plays against guys that are bigger and stronger every night - injuries are inevitable.
 

Yuma

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Nothing will change the fact that he's like 5'10, under 200, and 38. He plays against guys that are bigger and stronger every night - injuries are inevitable.
Earlier in the year, responding to PG rumors with the Suns, Gambo said, "The Suns are not wanting to add a small PG to the roster." That made me think of CP3. Sure enough we didn't make any moves for any of the rumored PGs associated with the Suns who were small. I have always been in favor of larger PGs in general. I just don't know who will be available, and what is the Suns thinking on who a small or large PG is.
 

Proximo

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I do think the trade for Durant was Gobert-like in terms of assets. However, I liked the players the Suns gave up better.
Yeah, but KD is easily at least twice as valuable as Gobert even at 35.
 

AzStevenCal

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Yeah, but KD is easily at least twice as valuable as Gobert even at 35.
I think you'd have to qualify "valuable" for some of us to agree with you. When they are both on the court, even in decline, KD is far more valuable than Rudy. But given his age, availability issues and high injury risk for the future, the length of KD's contract becomes a huge negative IMO which moves the two closer to equal in value.
 

Mainstreet

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Yeah, but KD is easily at least twice as valuable as Gobert even at 35.

I'm only looking at assets.

No way would I have traded the assets the Timberwolves gave up for Gobert.

IMO, the Suns gave up even more for Durant. I wouldn't have done that trade either for what the Suns gave up.
 

clyde2tw

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I think the CP3 thing is this is essentially his last year if you keep him. They can move on after this season. Whereas, Ayton, you have several more seasons left. Also, people probably forgot since the playoffs, beat writers chronicled how KD was seen working extra with Ayton. There's clips of Ayton talking about working early and late with KD. The first few games we had KD, but he couldn't play yet, Ayton was a monster. Local sports guys were saying Ayton was benefitting the most from KD being brought to Phoenix. That lasted a few games, then Ayton started sliding back to his average play of the season, which was not good. My thinking is, if a guy like KD can't reach Ayton, how do we think Vogel can? I mean we got rid of Sarver. That should have made Ayton happy in itself. The only minor, and I mean minor, like 2% hope, is that Monty was that last piece bringing Ayton down mentally. I think for both sides, Ayton needs a break from the Suns to restart his career, and the Suns need to bring in guys they feel they can trust. It was sad, in the regards to Ayton, that Landale out played Ayton guarding Jokic. There's no way physically that Landale has 50% of the physical talents and strength Ayton has, and yet he looked to be the better option guarding Jokic than Ayton. Plus Landale was better on the offensive glass than Ayton.
If used properly, CP3 could last into the finals and be at least as effective as Jason Kidd then and Lowry now. Monty let him play too many minutes that always end up in fatigue and associated injuries. His cost this new season is effectively 15m, which Suns'd save by waiving him. Cutting his playing time to 25-30 with rest on back-to-back games, may solve the health problem. This however requires quality backups for the 20+min at the PG position, which Payne and Shamet failed to provide repeatedly in the playoffs. So, we really need a Bruce Brown, Malik Monk, T. Mann, Horton-Tucker and Vincent type of guards on the team.
Also, despite the stats DA is unable to be creative enough to take advantage of space created by KD and Book. Not sure how Vogel can change that in short time without the luxury to let DA learn from failtures. A change of scenery may be best for both parties.
 

Yuma

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Matt Ishbia after Vogel Press Conference: “We’re not letting money stop us from being successful. … We’re not stopping for contracts and dollar amounts. To get the best team available, you need the best coaches, the best training staff, the best massage therapists. Whatever it may be, every aspect of the organization. … Money follows success. We’re not going to nickel and dime different things.”
 

AzStevenCal

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Matt Ishbia after Vogel Press Conference: “We’re not letting money stop us from being successful. … We’re not stopping for contracts and dollar amounts. To get the best team available, you need the best coaches, the best training staff, the best massage therapists. Whatever it may be, every aspect of the organization. … Money follows success. We’re not going to nickel and dime different things.”
He's not wrong.
 

cheesebeef

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Matt Ishbia after Vogel Press Conference: “We’re not letting money stop us from being successful. … We’re not stopping for contracts and dollar amounts. To get the best team available, you need the best coaches, the best training staff, the best massage therapists. Whatever it may be, every aspect of the organization. … Money follows success. We’re not going to nickel and dime different things.”
Put that money where your mouth is and get us that damn ring, Ish!
 

Raindog

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Matt Ishbia after Vogel Press Conference: “We’re not letting money stop us from being successful. … We’re not stopping for contracts and dollar amounts. To get the best team available, you need the best coaches, the best training staff, the best massage therapists. Whatever it may be, every aspect of the organization. … Money follows success. We’re not going to nickel and dime different things.”
He sure knows the guy he replaced.
 

elindholm

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Yeah… even if Book/KD/Paul meshed great together, at the end of the day Paul will never make it through the playoffs without missing important games. Can’t be dependent on one of your Big 3 who a) isn’t even close to what he used to be and b) can’t stay healthy at the end seasons.

That’s an exercise in futility.

Not to mention that, even when healthy, Paul is the greatest playoff choke artist of all time.
 

GatorAZ

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Not to mention that, even when healthy, Paul is the greatest playoff choke artist of all time.
He’s up there especially those Clipper years but Harden is the GOAT playoff choker, or…. WOAT I should say.

I just can’t imagine them bringing him back at that age and salary however I have no clue what his value is. He was still playing at all-star level when we got him but we’re not getting a Rubio-Oubre-FRP caliber package for him three years later.
 
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overseascardfan

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Waiving and stretching Paul may be the only option PHX has. No one is going to trade for him unless you are taking bad really bad contract(s) in return. Jones is not on Rob Pelinka's level of trade deals. Pelinka was able to spin Westbrook's albatross contract and a couple of picks for Jarred Vanderbilt, Malik Beasley and D'Lo's expiring contract. Jones will get nothing close that if anything at all because we aren't the only ones who see that Paul is done. He's not going to retire until he gets all the money he can.
 

Hoop Head

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Waiving and stretching Paul may be the only option PHX has. No one is going to trade for him unless you are taking bad really bad contract(s) in return. Jones is not on Rob Pelinka's level of trade deals. Pelinka was able to spin Westbrook's albatross contract and a couple of picks for Jarred Vanderbilt, Malik Beasley and D'Lo's expiring contract. Jones will get nothing close that if anything at all because we aren't the only ones who see that Paul is done. He's not going to retire until he gets all the money he can.

The picks were the main thing the Lakers had that we don't to make something happen. That's why I'm fine gambling on a Paul to LA sign and trade situation for D'Lo. Russell isn't ideal but he can provide more than Paul and as Golden State proved, its better to have a guy like D'Lo to deal later than have nothing, which is what we'd have if we stretched Paul. Golden State used D'Lo to cover for Steph for a while and then got Wiggins to cover for Klay.
 

AzStevenCal

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Waiving and stretching Paul may be the only option PHX has. No one is going to trade for him unless you are taking bad really bad contract(s) in return. Jones is not on Rob Pelinka's level of trade deals. Pelinka was able to spin Westbrook's albatross contract and a couple of picks for Jarred Vanderbilt, Malik Beasley and D'Lo's expiring contract. Jones will get nothing close that if anything at all because we aren't the only ones who see that Paul is done. He's not going to retire until he gets all the money he can.
As you said, there were picks included which rules us out plus I'm not sure that deal would still happen under the new CBA.
 

Finito

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He’s up there especially those Clipper years but Harden is the GOAT playoff choker, or…. WOAT I should say.

I just can’t imagine them bringing him back at that age and salary however I have no clue what his value is. He was still playing at all-star level when we got him but we’re not getting a Rubio-Oubre-FRP caliber package for him three years later.

Yeah I want no part of Paul anymore. I’ve seen his disappearing act for 15 years. Some guys just aren’t that guy.

Gambo is saying they are gonna wave him take the 15 mill hit and he’s gonna resign but I think that’s illegal
 

Mainstreet

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The picks were the main thing the Lakers had that we don't to make something happen. That's why I'm fine gambling on a Paul to LA sign and trade situation for D'Lo. Russell isn't ideal but he can provide more than Paul and as Golden State proved, its better to have a guy like D'Lo to deal later than have nothing, which is what we'd have if we stretched Paul. Golden State used D'Lo to cover for Steph for a while and then got Wiggins to cover for Klay.

If the Suns are going to trade Paul for anything of value, they may have to take on a similar or a longer term contract, that nobody wants. The Suns do not have anything to sweeten the trade other than second round draft picks.

Waiving and stretching Paul might help the Suns get the larger MLE.

However, can Paul be traded before June 28th for $30 million in incoming salary and the other team waive him for $15 million to help them save money? Brian Windhorst has mentioned other options.

If the Suns traded for D'Angelo Russell, why would the Lakers do it other than perhaps gaining second round picks.
 

Mainstreet

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Yeah I want no part of Paul anymore. I’ve seen his disappearing act for 15 years. Some guys just aren’t that guy.

Gambo is saying they are gonna wave him take the 15 mill hit and he’s gonna resign but I think that’s illegal

The Suns can waive Paul before June 28. This is before his $30 million contract becomes guaranteed.

They would have to pay him approximately $15 million if they did so.
 

Covert Rain

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Put that money where your mouth is and get us that damn ring, Ish!
It's obviously more than this and there is a little luck involved. However, to me it's refreshing change from Sarver and Bidwill. Not to mention it takes a huge excuse off the table. Now it's up to the people you hire to get it done.
 

GatorAZ

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If the Suns are going to trade Paul for anything of value, they may have to take on a similar or a longer term contract, that nobody wants. The Suns do not have anything to sweeten the trade other than second round draft picks.

Waiving and stretching Paul might help the Suns get the larger MLE.

However, can Paul be traded before June 28th for $30 million in incoming salary and the other team waive him for $15 million to help them save money? Brian Windhorst has mentioned other options.

If the Suns traded for D'Angelo Russell, why would the Lakers do it other than perhaps gaining second round picks.
The team that trades for CP3 is guaranteeing him $30m on arrival regardless of the 6/28 deadline. However if the Suns trade him before 6/28 they’re only accounting for $15ish mil coming back. There’s just no way a team is taking that on and only sending back half the salary. I do think the Suns can fully guarantee his salary and take back $30m during the draft.
 

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