2023 Phoenix Suns Offseason

Yuma

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Shh. Don't tell Mat Ishbia. I'm not ready for Draymond Green.

The Suns do need some players with an edge.
Funny you should say that. One of the things Vogel is supposedly known for his have teams with an edge. I think I saw it on Locked on Suns today. Kleen said no one was afraid of PHX Suns. We didn't have anyone with an edge. Funny, Crowder seemed to be that guy for us.
 

Phrazbit

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Durant and Green reeeeally do not like each other, there is no way we're bringing him in.
 

AzStevenCal

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Durant and Green reeeeally do not like each other, there is no way we're bringing him in.
Yeah I don't get that rumor at all unless we're trading KD. And trading KD right now is only slightly more likely than unicorns taking over the world.
 

Yuma

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I read Durant and Green made up, and both are now blaming the situation on the coaches.
 

clyde2tw

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Come on, I know you don't like the guy but anyone who can judge basketball at all could clearly see he was by far the best defender we had for Murray.

+- is a garbage stat anyway, it includes all 5 players and our bench was not good for large stretches of the season.

Don't take this as an endorsement of Shamet, I would be happy to see him go.
No, he was not, Okogie was it from game 2 on. Shamet was second with hustle for sure.
 
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Mainstreet

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I'm going to add this here as well. The Suns will have a press conference at noon tomorrow with James Jones.

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Hoop Head

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Shamet really wasn't all that much worse than anyone else in the playoffs. The defensive ratings for everyone were in the toilet. Our starters were at a 118 and the bench was 121-124. Really can't point to anyone as the weak link when they were all putrid.

Only 3 players saw time in all 11 games, KD, Booker, and Craig. While Shamet, Okogie, and Ayton only played in 10 games. The rest saw the floor in 8 or fewer games. Out of all of our players only 5 had a positive VORP, which is Value Over Replacement Player. Booker, KD, Craig, Paul, and Jock. Everyone else was a negative or neutral. The advanced stats paint a very ugly picture of this team. Booker's VORP was almost double KD's, he really was on a different level. That's basically the only bright spot.

I don't recommend looking over the playoff advanced stats if you're optimistic for next year because there's a lot that needs done. We were 6-5 in the playoffs so for the stats to be that bad, is a little surprising.

 

Yuma

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Shamet really wasn't all that much worse than anyone else in the playoffs. The defensive ratings for everyone were in the toilet. Our starters were at a 118 and the bench was 121-124. Really can't point to anyone as the weak link when they were all putrid.

Only 3 players saw time in all 11 games, KD, Booker, and Craig. While Shamet, Okogie, and Ayton only played in 10 games. The rest saw the floor in 8 or fewer games. Out of all of our players only 5 had a positive VORP, which is Value Over Replacement Player. Booker, KD, Craig, Paul, and Jock. Everyone else was a negative or neutral. The advanced stats paint a very ugly picture of this team. Booker's VORP was almost double KD's, he really was on a different level. That's basically the only bright spot.

I don't recommend looking over the playoff advanced stats if you're optimistic for next year because there's a lot that needs done. We were 6-5 in the playoffs so for the stats to be that bad, is a little surprising.

Booker was on a level up. If the KD trade did that, it was worth it. I didn't think Booker could reach that other level. It's awesome.
 

95pro

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I'm not happy with how things are turning out. Too much change too fast imo. New team roster this past season, we lost crowder for peanutes, then we lose two key guys for one major piece, and Dario for the guy who can't really play. Now we have new coaches.

Now rumors are we are going to pay cp3 his full salary for the 23-24 season. And we are looking to move Ayton for sure. I'd prefer the opposite of those changes. CP3 is just done, injury after injury in crucial times. But the reports are that players were not happy with Ayton's lack of focus and aggression. This seemed like a re-occuring theme this past season. I believe there is still a chance to save Ayton, since he will have new people surrounding him aside from Booker.
 

Carolinacacti

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Shamet really wasn't all that much worse than anyone else in the playoffs. The defensive ratings for everyone were in the toilet. Our starters were at a 118 and the bench was 121-124. Really can't point to anyone as the weak link when they were all putrid.

Only 3 players saw time in all 11 games, KD, Booker, and Craig. While Shamet, Okogie, and Ayton only played in 10 games. The rest saw the floor in 8 or fewer games. Out of all of our players only 5 had a positive VORP, which is Value Over Replacement Player. Booker, KD, Craig, Paul, and Jock. Everyone else was a negative or neutral. The advanced stats paint a very ugly picture of this team. Booker's VORP was almost double KD's, he really was on a different level. That's basically the only bright spot.

I don't recommend looking over the playoff advanced stats if you're optimistic for next year because there's a lot that needs done. We were 6-5 in the playoffs so for the stats to be that bad, is a little surprising.

How many minutes did Craig get? not enough IMOP.
 

Mainstreet

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Shamet really wasn't all that much worse than anyone else in the playoffs. The defensive ratings for everyone were in the toilet. Our starters were at a 118 and the bench was 121-124. Really can't point to anyone as the weak link when they were all putrid.

Only 3 players saw time in all 11 games, KD, Booker, and Craig. While Shamet, Okogie, and Ayton only played in 10 games. The rest saw the floor in 8 or fewer games. Out of all of our players only 5 had a positive VORP, which is Value Over Replacement Player. Booker, KD, Craig, Paul, and Jock. Everyone else was a negative or neutral. The advanced stats paint a very ugly picture of this team. Booker's VORP was almost double KD's, he really was on a different level. That's basically the only bright spot.

I don't recommend looking over the playoff advanced stats if you're optimistic for next year because there's a lot that needs done. We were 6-5 in the playoffs so for the stats to be that bad, is a little surprising.


The only thing I would add, Shamet was a terrible shooter last season. He shot .377 from the field.

Okogie shot .400, Wainright shot .370 and Payne .415.

For a league that is dependent on shooting, this is terrible.
 

ASUCHRIS

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The only thing I would add, Shamet was a terrible shooter last season. He shot .377 from the field.

Okogie shot .400, Wainright shot .370 and Payne .415.

For a league that is dependent on shooting, this is terrible.
On top of that, most of his shots are undefended in the corner. The Suns absolutely need their min guys to be able to hit a corner 3. Okogie forgetting how to shoot in the playoffs really put us in a bind.
 

Finito

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This was perplexing the Suns not playing Craig more. Yes, he had off games but he was as close to a 5th starter as the Suns had.

This kills a team. Multiple players have talked about it most recent Barkley and Kenny

You can’t run a team like that where players don’t know what they are gonna do night to night. Am I gonna start? Am I gonna get 20 touches or 2.

Barkley said that kills a team and that’s exactly what the Suns were this season.
 

Finito

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I'm not happy with how things are turning out. Too much change too fast imo. New team roster this past season, we lost crowder for peanutes, then we lose two key guys for one major piece, and Dario for the guy who can't really play. Now we have new coaches.

Now rumors are we are going to pay cp3 his full salary for the 23-24 season. And we are looking to move Ayton for sure. I'd prefer the opposite of those changes. CP3 is just done, injury after injury in crucial times. But the reports are that players were not happy with Ayton's lack of focus and aggression. This seemed like a re-occuring theme this past season. I believe there is still a chance to save Ayton, since he will have new people surrounding him aside from Booker.

I’ve heard the exact opposite

They would be beyond stupid to keep CP38 over a 24 year old Ayton just for asset alone.

If they try and run CP3 out there it’s over. I won’t even watch cause there’s no point. You can’t play two guys like Booker and KD with CP3 and his slow pace. Your handcuffing yourself
 

ASUCHRIS

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I’ve heard the exact opposite

They would be beyond stupid to keep CP38 over a 24 year old Ayton just for asset alone.

If they try and run CP3 out there it’s over. I won’t even watch cause there’s no point. You can’t play two guys like Booker and KD with CP3 and his slow pace. Your handcuffing yourself
Paul has proven he cannot handle the load of a regular season and playoffs, and even if he gets breaks during the season, he inevitably falls apart at the most important part of the year.

How many times can we watch the same show and expecting different results?
 

Mainstreet

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Of course, the Suns can't trade consecutive first round picks. Could the Suns could trade their 2031 first round pick after the 2023 draft? This would be a non-consecutive pick.

They could use it to trade Paul or for some other reason.

Also, if the Suns trade Ayton and get a first round pick, they could use it in trade as well.
 

Finito

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Of course, the Suns can't trade consecutive first round picks. Could the Suns could trade their 2031 first round pick after the 2023 draft? This would be a non-consecutive pick.

They could use it to trade Paul or for some other reason.

Also, if the Suns trade Ayton and get a first round pick, they could use it in trade as well.

No more trading picks at all. That’s something I do not want to see. We’re already gutted.
 

Mainstreet

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No more trading picks at all. That’s something I do not want to see. We’re already gutted.

I hear you, only try to find a shovel to get rid of bad contracts or add a player.
 

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Also, if the Suns trade Ayton and get a first round pick, they could use it in trade as well.

A first round pick? As in only 1?

Is his value that bad? I mean Rudy Gobert brought in a haul. I figured Ayton should be able to pull in at least half of that right?
 

Yuma

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I think the CP3 thing is this is essentially his last year if you keep him. They can move on after this season. Whereas, Ayton, you have several more seasons left. Also, people probably forgot since the playoffs, beat writers chronicled how KD was seen working extra with Ayton. There's clips of Ayton talking about working early and late with KD. The first few games we had KD, but he couldn't play yet, Ayton was a monster. Local sports guys were saying Ayton was benefitting the most from KD being brought to Phoenix. That lasted a few games, then Ayton started sliding back to his average play of the season, which was not good. My thinking is, if a guy like KD can't reach Ayton, how do we think Vogel can? I mean we got rid of Sarver. That should have made Ayton happy in itself. The only minor, and I mean minor, like 2% hope, is that Monty was that last piece bringing Ayton down mentally. I think for both sides, Ayton needs a break from the Suns to restart his career, and the Suns need to bring in guys they feel they can trust. It was sad, in the regards to Ayton, that Landale out played Ayton guarding Jokic. There's no way physically that Landale has 50% of the physical talents and strength Ayton has, and yet he looked to be the better option guarding Jokic than Ayton. Plus Landale was better on the offensive glass than Ayton.
 

Mainstreet

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A first round pick? As in only 1?

Is his value that bad? I mean Rudy Gobert brought in a haul. I figured Ayton should be able to pull in at least half of that right?

I'm talking about getting a first round pick included if the Suns trade Ayton. The Suns need 2-3 rotation players if they trade him.
 

Yuma

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A first round pick? As in only 1?

Is his value that bad? I mean Rudy Gobert brought in a haul. I figured Ayton should be able to pull in at least half of that right?
The Gobert thing is a one off. You can't compare trades to that. If you did, the Suns arguably got a better deal in Durant because they "only" paid what it took to get Gobert, for a future HOF first ballot player with tread still left on the tire!
 

Mainstreet

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The Gobert thing is a one off. You can't compare trades to that. If you did, the Suns arguably got a better deal in Durant because they "only" paid what it took to get Gobert, for a future HOF first ballot player with tread still left on the tire!

I do think the trade for Durant was Gobert-like in terms of assets. However, I liked the players the Suns gave up better.
 
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