2022 Season - A Season of Answers

[kerouac9]

For comparison's sake, here's Kirk's routes run on targets last season. I think this is how you'd more effectively want to use Brown.

Bonus: LOL Rondale

 

[Chopper0080]

For comparison's sake, here's Kirk's routes run on targets last season. I think this is how you'd more effectively want to use Brown.

Bonus: LOL Rondale

I normally don't go for coach speak but I really hope Kliff isn't lying here regarding Moore...

“He feels like he can step into Christian’s role and play at a really high level inside there and we do too,” Kingsbury said. “I just think the confidence is high right now and he knows he’s got a big opportunity coming up.

“We utilized him in different ways than we will this year,” Kingsbury added, “We kind of got it to him in space and did some things and used him on some checkdowns but he’s a dynamic route-runner and I think that’s what people are going to see. He’s really good getting out of his cuts, good at the tougher routes and so I think people are going to see a different side of him.

-Kliff Kingsbury, via Arizona Sports 98.7FM

 

[kerouac9]

I normally don't go for coach speak but I really hope Kliff isn't lying here regarding Moore...

“He feels like he can step into Christian’s role and play at a really high level inside there and we do too,” Kingsbury said. “I just think the confidence is high right now and he knows he’s got a big opportunity coming up.

“We utilized him in different ways than we will this year,” Kingsbury added, “We kind of got it to him in space and did some things and used him on some checkdowns but he’s a dynamic route-runner and I think that’s what people are going to see. He’s really good getting out of his cuts, good at the tougher routes and so I think people are going to see a different side of him.

-Kliff Kingsbury, via Arizona Sports 98.7FM

I don't think he's lying, but (IMO) Moore has to be better than Hollywood Brown in the slot to take that job. Maybe that happens in two years if and when DHop is out and Brown is the #1 guy always on the outside. But I fully expect our 3WR set to be Wesley-Brown-Green until DHop comes back and then Hop-Brown-Green.

If Moore is in the slot it's a clear key that there's a smoke screen coming. Maybe McBride doesn't show much in camp and we run a lot of 4 WR sets in passing situations to start the season. But the angles just aren't there for little wideouts down the field.

EDIT: One thing I love about Kliff is that he's always positive about these guys during the offseason, and he puts it on himself when they don't get involved and don't get opportunities. He never says "Zaven sucked all week and we couldn't put him out there in good conscience." He says "we have to find better opportunities to get him on the field."

It's all fun and games until you're faced with 3rd and seven and you're trying to get it to two 5'6" wideouts on the outside.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think we have to play both Brown/Moore at the same time while Nuk is gone. I doubt we will ask Moore to do it...so that leaves Brown to cover Nuk's spot.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I don't think he's lying, but (IMO) Moore has to be better than Hollywood Brown in the slot to take that job. Maybe that happens in two years if and when DHop is out and Brown is the #1 guy always on the outside. But I fully expect our 3WR set to be Wesley-Brown-Green until DHop comes back and then Hop-Brown-Green.

If Moore is in the slot it's a clear key that there's a smoke screen coming. Maybe McBride doesn't show much in camp and we run a lot of 4 WR sets in passing situations to start the season. But the angles just aren't there for little wideouts down the field.

EDIT: One thing I love about Kliff is that he's always positive about these guys during the offseason, and he puts it on himself when they don't get involved and don't get opportunities. He never says "Zaven sucked all week and we couldn't put him out there in good conscience." He says "we have to find better opportunities to get him on the field."

It's all fun and games until you're faced with 3rd and seven and you're trying to get it to two 5'6" wideouts on the outside.

Green will still be on the outside... unless I'm missing something...

 

[gmabel830]

Just play with one outside WR and two slot WRs and try to confuse the hell out of the defense.

 

[daves]

In terms of Moore, his usage is dependent on how the Cardinals use Brown and McBride as well as how often they line up in 10 personnel. If Brown just slides into Kirk's role then Moore is limited. And if they decide to use more 12 personnel with McBride, Moore is limited. Both would highlight that Keim has no long-term roster plan.

So having a plethora of skill players with overlapping skill sets such that it's hard to get them all on the field at the same time would be evidence that Keim has no long-term roster plan... But if the Cardinals *didn't* have all these players, when one guy gets suspended or another gets hurt or another moves on at the end of his contract, Keim's an idiot for not having enough depth or any long-term roster plan?

...dave

 

[Dayman]

I normally don't go for coach speak but I really hope Kliff isn't lying here regarding Moore...

“He feels like he can step into Christian’s role and play at a really high level inside there and we do too,” Kingsbury said. “I just think the confidence is high right now and he knows he’s got a big opportunity coming up.

“We utilized him in different ways than we will this year,” Kingsbury added, “We kind of got it to him in space and did some things and used him on some checkdowns but he’s a dynamic route-runner and I think that’s what people are going to see. He’s really good getting out of his cuts, good at the tougher routes and so I think people are going to see a different side of him.

-Kliff Kingsbury, via Arizona Sports 98.7FM

"Cardinals head coach Kliff Kingsbury said after the trade that he can use Brown everywhere. He envisions Brown mainly stepping into Arizona's 2021 lead receiver Christian Kirk's role after the latter left in free agency."
www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/.amp/news/how-the-arizona-cardinals-see-hollywood-brown-fitting-offense

Kliff says a lot of things.

 

[Chopper0080]

So having a plethora of skill players with overlapping skill sets such that it's hard to get them all on the field at the same time would be evidence that Keim has no long-term roster plan... But if the Cardinals *didn't* have all these players, when one guy gets suspended or another gets hurt or another moves on at the end of his contract, Keim's an idiot for not having enough depth or any long-term roster plan?

...dave

Had Kirk, a 2nd round pick. Couldn't flash as a #1 but was a great slot WR.
Used a 2nd round pick on Hopkins. Gave him a huge contract. #1.
Signed AJ Green.
Used a 2nd round pick on Rondale Moore.
Let Kirk go into his contract year.
Traded a 5th, 6th and Gowan for Ertz.
Re-signed Zack Ertz. Large Contract.
Traded a 1st round pick for Marquise Brown. Who is used a ton in the slot.
Re-signed AJ Green.
Drafted Trey McBride with a 2nd round pick.

Yes, this ensures that we have redundant options in the pass game for Kyler. It also results in a roster with only 4 offensive linemen signed in 2023 and a total of 16 starters as FAs in 2023.

Fun exercise. Since Kliff was hired...
WR
Andy Isabella - 2nd
Hakeem Butler - 4th
KeeSean Johnon - 6th
DeAndre Hopkins - 2nd (large contract)
AJ Green - FA (6 mil)
Rondale Moore - 2nd
Marquise Brown - 1st

TE
Caleb Wilson - 7th
Zack Ertz - 5th, 6th, CB Gowan (large contract)
Trey McBride - 2nd

So a lot of premium resources used on guys who either couldn't work or who limit the impact the other players can have.

What I mean by this is that we used 12 personnel on 22% of the snaps last year and 10 personnel 13% of the snaps. We used a 2nd, 5th, 6th, CB Gowan, and a 3yr 31.6 mil contract for a 22% snap % grouping. With Hopkins, Green, Brown and Moore we have spent a lot of resources to enable us to get those players on the field together on 13% of a seasons snaps which of course means those TEs aren't on the field for that.

 

[Harry]

People depending on tiny Hollywood Brown being an effective perimeter weapon are likely to be disappointed. There is like one example of a player Browns size being effective consistently on the outside—and he was effective right away.

It also seems like Groundhogs Day each season when people expect the offense to somehow transform rather than evolve. Why would Moore be running the full route tree or used on the perimeter this year?

Not sure who you’re referring to. My thought for a positive example would be Steve Smith. He played in the slot some but most played outside. His first year produced only 154 yards. He became one of the NFL’s top wideouts for many years. He stood only 5’9”.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Not sure who you’re referring to. My thought for a positive example would be Steve Smith. He played in the slot some but most played outside. His first year produced only 154 yards. He became one of the NFL’s top wideouts for many years. He stood only 5’9”.

Desean Jackson is another.

 

[kerouac9]

Not sure who you’re referring to. My thought for a positive example would be Steve Smith. He played in the slot some but most played outside. His first year produced only 154 yards. He became one of the NFL’s top wideouts for many years. He stood only 5’9”.

Steve Smith was the example I was thinking of. Krang asserted Antonio Brown, but he's an inch taller, and I remember his game as being more catch-and-run than a deep ball artist. ADoT data on Pro Football Reference only goes back to 2018.

Desean Jackson is another.

Both Jackson and Antonio Brown are a full inch taller than Hollywood.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Steve Smith was the example I was thinking of. Krang asserted Antonio Brown, but he's an inch taller, and I remember his game as being more catch-and-run than a deep ball artist. ADoT data on Pro Football Reference only goes back to 2018.



Both Jackson and Antonio Brown are a full inch taller than Hollywood.

An inch is nothing man.

 

[cardncubfan]

An inch is nothing man.

That's what she.... Ah nevermind.

 

[juza76]

An inch is nothing man.

Al Pacino in any given Sunday say something different about an inch