2018 1st round pick is Josh Rosen

Discussion in 'Arizona Cardinals' started by BullheadCardFan, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Jetstream Green

    Jetstream Green Registered User

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    No, I am absolutely right. I define him as a backup and for a backup he did a excellent job. If he was good enough to be a legit starter, I would not have called him a great backup but a undervalued starting caliber QB. My rating then is completely accurate because a backup at best is suppose to allot you to win at least half your games and allow you to stay in the mix for a short period till your starter can take over the reins again, and Stanton did better than that but I am under no illusions to think that means he can start. For what is expected of him and what a backup is, he is great for the role given to him
     
  2. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    That makes zero sense. There are backups that need development and experience to reach their potential. Until that time they are not undervalued starting caliber QBs because they may never get there for a myriad of reasons.

    Great is reserved for those that are better then the position they play. Sorry that’s not him.
     
  3. Solar7

    Solar7 Optimist

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    In the NFL there are maybe two backup QBs at any given time that could be starters for other teams. Otherwise they wouldn't be backups. Pretending Stanton isn't a very good backup QB is to ignore the role of the "backup." He does things outside of just play on the field on Sundays that count a great deal toward how good or bad he is.
     
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  4. Jetstream Green

    Jetstream Green Registered User

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    Makes complete sense if you are judging him in a backup role, and that's what I am doing. Meaning one should consider what's great for a backup is not the same for a starter and interjecting him into the role of starter is what makes no sense because we are not discussing him under those pretexts and agree he is not one and does not have to be one or have the potential to be one to fulfill his job which is less demanding, hence a different rating system for being great. He has excelled at what is expected of him and he knows his place as a career backup. There is a difference in expectations for the level of a position and the corresponding grade. Just because some teams roll with a young guy with potential to be much more, that is not a variable when discussing a guy like Stanton
     
  5. Covert Rain

    Covert Rain Father smelt of elderberries!

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    You can’t have it both ways. You can’t say you are judging backups in the backup role AND call them undervalued starting QBs.

    I think career backups can be competent and/or good at that role but I reserve great for those that show they potentially can do more.

    I have seen backups come in and win games. I have seen them hang on to a lead. If they do that they are doing their job but that doesn’t make them great backups. We have seen great backups that after some experience, coaching and patience go on to starting careers. That doesn’t mean if you threw them to the wolves without all the above they would have the same outcome.

    “Great” and Stanton don’t belong in the same sentence. Competent, decent or good? That’s a much better argument.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
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  6. RugbyMuffin

    RugbyMuffin Say Hello to the bad guy

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    Great or Competent, semantics aside the guy won games when the team needed to. Label it however you want from there.
     
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  7. cardsfanmd

    cardsfanmd Registered

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    Yup. He’s such an amazing backup that he’s currently 3rd string in Cleveland...
     
  8. Jetstream Green

    Jetstream Green Registered User

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    Because they drafted starter material and signed starter material and have to navigate the selection which has nothing to do with career backup material (sort of like Glennon probably stepping in to be the all purpose backup after Rosen takes the reins)... geez, I am judging him as a backup, meaning he's a great backup but below average as a starter which is a huge jump in scale


    tenor.gif tenor.gif tenor.gif
     
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  9. Ronin

    Ronin Quick to point out the obvious Contributor

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  10. Ronin

    Ronin Quick to point out the obvious Contributor

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  11. Ronin

    Ronin Quick to point out the obvious Contributor

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  12. Mainstreet

    Mainstreet Registered User Contributor

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    I was ready for the Cardinals to move on from Stanton. The Cardinals needed a fresh start and keeping Stanton seemed to be an obstacle... imaginary or not. Stanton was a nice backup QB so I give him this.
     
  13. Ronin

    Ronin Quick to point out the obvious Contributor

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  14. bojack

    bojack Registered

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    Oh, c'mon... anyone claiming Stanton was a great backup is whitewashing this. Not only was he not a great backup comparitively, situationly he was a terrible backup for the Cards.

    #1 *He* didn't win many games for us at all. Sure, he started in more games that we won than we lost (9-4 or somewhere around there?), but more often than not is was not because of a high level of play from him, and many times it was despite his play. I won't argue that he had some flash in the pan moments, but blind squirrels find a nut once in a while too.

    #2 His career passer rating in Arizona was around 71 IIRC. That is the same as Derek Anderson's career avg, and only a smig higher than DA's rating when he helped lead us to a 2-7 record in 2010.

    #3 We had an aging, injury prone QB who could be knocked out of the game, season or career at any snap at a much higher probability than the avg QB. If that QB2 is not potentially starter material then you have a terrible backup because you are conceding the season when your starter gets knocked out - which in our case was more of a *when* and not *if* situation.
     
  15. bojack

    bojack Registered

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    BTW... I use the DA comparison because he had the lowest passer rating of any QB who played in the last 10 years that had a minimum of 1,500 pass attempts. If DA is the worst starter by that metric, then Stanton surely isn't on the same level as a "below average starter". Compartively speaking, I would say DS was a avg backup for a team with a healthy franchise QB. For the Cards though we could and should have done so much better, and it was only BA's stubborn loyalty that kept DS in that role. There isn't another coach in the league would have been using DS as the team's sole safety net for the last few years with CP as your starter between the injuries and the pending retirement.

    Now, DS might be an amazing human being and bring smiles to those around him, and if so more power to him, but that doesn't change the fact we would never be a serious post season contender while he was our #2 with a better than not chance we would need him to be our starter for a prolonged period. If we had a young ace as our starter for the last couple years no one would ever talk about Stanton or be critical of him... he would just fly under the radar as a non-factor because he wouldn't see the field for any significant snaps like 90% of the other backups out there.

    I'm just excited to fresh faces who at least have the possibility of being a solid QB1. We already knew what we had in DS and he was not going to cut it - so whether or not our current crop turns out any better at least there is a still chance.
     
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