2018/19 Opening Night Depth Chart

[JCSunsfan]

If we have no more trades between now and opening night, the depth chart looks like this.

Pg: Knight, Shaq, Okobo
Sg: Booker, Daniels, Reed
Sf: Warren, Jackson, Bridges
Pf: Ariza, Bender, Chriss
C: Ayton, Holmes, Chandler

Players cut: Canaan, Arthur.

King as a two-way.

Here is the deal. With Jackson, Bridges, Shaq, Bender, Chriss, Holmes and even Reed coming off the bench, there is some real depth there (at least compared to our starting line up). If I am Igor, I would run hard, including the motion in the half court and energy on defense, and then substitute freely.

 

[SirStefan32]

I *THINK* Canaan is more likely to be on the roster than Harrison. Suns can roll out some crazy small, shooting lineups with Booker, Bridges, Ariza, and Bender. I think Canaan fits there much better than Harrison. Harrison may be a slightly better defender, but Canaan can defend, shoot, and pass. I like Harrison, but he is so overrated on this board that it's not even funny.

I see the rotation as Knight, Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Warren, Jackson, Ariza, Bender, Ayton, and probably Chandler. Chriss and Holmes may crack the rotation if Bender doesn't pull his head out of his behind, but that's about it. Shaq, Okobo, Daniels, Reed aren't gonna crack the regular rotation.

 

[Chaplin]

I *THINK* Canaan is more likely to be on the roster than Harrison. Suns can roll out some crazy small, shooting lineups with Booker, Bridges, Ariza, and Bender. I think Canaan fits there much better than Harrison. Harrison may be a slightly better defender, but Canaan can defend, shoot, and pass. I like Harrison, but he is so overrated on this board that it's not even funny.

I see the rotation as Knight, Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Warren, Jackson, Ariza, Bender, Ayton, and probably Chandler. Chriss and Holmes may crack the rotation if Bender doesn't pull his head out of his behind, but that's about it. Shaq, Okobo, Daniels, Reed aren't gonna crack the regular rotation.

I've been agreeing with you most of the time for a while now, but I cannot agree that Harrison is "so overrated on this board that it's not even funny." That's pretty extreme. Where is the proof of that?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Jackson starts not Warren.

 

[SirStefan32]

I've been agreeing with you most of the time for a while now, but I cannot agree that Harrison is "so overrated on this board that it's not even funny." That's pretty extreme. Where is the proof of that?

Well, the post above has the Suns waiving Canaan in favor of Shaq, and listing Shaq before Okobo in the rotation. There have been comments in post where people even suggested he start, and talks about sticking with what we had and developing Okobo and Harrison. Perhaps my comment is extreme, but it is true. This happens routinely on this board. It wasn't that long ago that people were suggesting Ulis may be the PGOTF after a couple of decent months. I like Harrison, but he is an end of the bench guy. He can't shoot, and he is not a good passer. He is pretty good defensively, and he can drive to the hoop. That's not enough for a rotation player today.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, the post above has the Suns waiving Canaan in favor of Shaq, and listing Shaq before Okobo in the rotation. There have been comments in post where people even suggested he start, and talks about sticking with what we had and developing Okobo and Harrison. Perhaps my comment is extreme, but it is true. This happens routinely on this board. It wasn't that long ago that people were suggesting Ulis may be the PGOTF after a couple of decent months. I like Harrison, but he is an end of the bench guy. He can't shoot, and he is not a good passer. He is pretty good defensively, and he can drive to the hoop. That's not enough for a rotation player today.

Listing Shaq before Okobo and putting him above Canaan considering everything up to this point isn't overrating the guy at all. Between Knight, Shaq, Canaan and Okobo, how is asking Shaq to be the starter extreme? Compared to the rest of the options especially. I like Canaan, but not much more than Shaq. And Knight certainly doesn't have the pedigree, even though I think he is unquestionably the starter today.

Overrating him is saying he belongs as part of the group to build around, which nobody is saying. Or that he will be effective against the Steph Curry's and Chris Paul's of the NBA, also which nobody is saying. Just doesn't make sense in context. It's like choosing between a C and a C-.

 

[Errntknght]

I *THINK* Canaan is more likely to be on the roster than Harrison. Suns can roll out some crazy small, shooting lineups with Booker, Bridges, Ariza, and Bender. I think Canaan fits there much better than Harrison. Harrison may be a slightly better defender, but Canaan can defend, shoot, and pass. I like Harrison, but he is so overrated on this board that it's not even funny.

I see the rotation as Knight, Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Warren, Jackson, Ariza, Bender, Ayton, and probably Chandler. Chriss and Holmes may crack the rotation if Bender doesn't pull his head out of his behind, but that's about it. Shaq, Okobo, Daniels, Reed aren't gonna crack the regular rotation.

Reed for sure is going to crack the rotation as Daniels is a terrible defender - the latter's role will be designated gunner. In fact Danels doesn't rebound or make plays - he has the lowest rates for rebounds and assists on the team - well, he tied with Ulis last year in rebounds. He had more TOs than assists! He shouldn't even be allowed to practice with the team because he fools the other players into thinking they are great when he defends them.
Reed may even take some minutes away from Jackson as he's a better defender, play maker and 3 point shooter. Plus he's close as a rebounder. Hopefully Jackson improves enough that he can keep up with Reed.

I think I'm the only one on the board that overrates Harrison - I can't help it, I just love guys that can disrupt the opponents attack. I don't want him to be the starting PG, because he's more valuable playing 24 minutes than he is playing 34. If Canaan is all the way back he's a better choice to start than Harrison or Okobo. Like you said he has an all around game but I believe that we definitely want to keep that pair getting enough minutes to progress. Okobo probably spends some time in the G-league, which is good.

Harrison got considerable flak for his feeding of Ayton in SL but, at least, he was trying - he did it far more than anyone else did. Most of Ayton's lobs came from Harrison. I think Igor instructed him to feed Ayton and he forced the issue more than he should have. It's a correctable problem, easily correctable.

I agree with JCS in the post just ahead of SirSteph's - that we have great depth and should use it to force the pace. Keep fresh legs on the court all the time and wear the opponents down. We easily have a ten man rotation - Canaan, Harrison, Okobo, Booker, Reed, Jackson, Bridges, Warren, Ariza, Holmes, Ayton, Chandler, Bender/Chriss. That's 13 and I purposefully left out Knight and Daniels - they're in reseve in case we decide to tank again.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I *THINK* Canaan is more likely to be on the roster than Harrison. Suns can roll out some crazy small, shooting lineups with Booker, Bridges, Ariza, and Bender. I think Canaan fits there much better than Harrison. Harrison may be a slightly better defender, but Canaan can defend, shoot, and pass. I like Harrison, but he is so overrated on this board that it's not even funny.

I see the rotation as Knight, Canaan, Booker, Bridges, Warren, Jackson, Ariza, Bender, Ayton, and probably Chandler. Chriss and Holmes may crack the rotation if Bender doesn't pull his head out of his behind, but that's about it. Shaq, Okobo, Daniels, Reed aren't gonna crack the regular rotation.

I am not sure it is the overrating of Shaq as it is the "meh" factor for the whole bunch of pg's. I don't see Canaan as good as Shaq, but Shaq is not starting material either. Canaan is on a totally non-guaranteed contract, so its easier to cut him.

 

[Mainstreet]

The way the Suns PG situation looks at the moment, I can't see Canaan not making the team providing he is healthy. If push came to shove, I'd keep Canaan over Harrison but that is not because I don't like Harrison. Canaan is the more rounded player and could start if Knight were not able to go.

The Suns could clear a roster spot or two by trading Daniels and/or Chriss. I can see Warren playing backup PF.

Of course, when all is said and done, the Suns might end up trading for a PG.

 

[Phrazbit]

It's currently a poo poo platter at PG. Unless Knight wows there isn't an option to get excited about.

But I think Harrison and Canaan are... roughly equal. Canaan shoots better but isn't a good shooter, Harrison is better at getting to the rim and a better defender... and his contract is guaranteed and he isn't coming off a major injury. I think Canaan's odds of being on the final roster are slim.

 

[Hoop Head]

I've been agreeing with you most of the time for a while now, but I cannot agree that Harrison is "so overrated on this board that it's not even funny." That's pretty extreme. Where is the proof of that?

The proof is he's a fringe NBA player who couldn't find a team until last season when the Suns went into tank mode 100%. Prior to that he was a G-Leaguer who never got much of a look. A lot of people here seem to think he'll take the starting PG job from Knight, not just because Knight sucks but because Harrison is such a good defender. Even taking exception with that and asking for proof that people overrate him is another example of people overrating him. What do you think he'll be next year? If you think he's any more than a fringe roster player that doesn't have a spot in the rotation then you're overrating him because that's the player he's been since he left college. Until he proves otherwise, in the NBA and not Summer League, that's what he is. A G-League talent who may have a role somewhere as a third or fourth string PG that can't shoot but is an ok defender.

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't think his contract is guaranteed. Something like 10K or maybe 50K is guaranteed. Even if it were fully guaranteed, they are not going to pass on an actual NBA player (Canaan) in favor of Harrison.

EDIT:
Disclaimer- I do not think Canaan is a particularly good player. I am just saying he is an actual, legitimate NBA player. Perhaps a decent backup PG with no major weaknesses, but no major strengths either.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's currently a poo poo platter at PG. Unless Knight wows there isn't an option to get excited about.

But I think Harrison and Canaan are... roughly equal. Canaan shoots better but isn't a good shooter, Harrison is better at getting to the rim and a better defender... and his contract is guaranteed and he isn't coming off a major injury. I think Canaan's odds of being on the final roster are slim.

Where have you seen Harrison's deal is guaranteed? Everything I've seen about it said his guarantee date was pushed back but not passed as of yet and he only has a guarantee amount of 50k that's hit already. That much isn't enough to factor into anything really.

 

[95pro]

If we consider Reed a SG then I can see him taking over Daniels spot.


Interesting to see minutes between Ariza, Bridges, Warren, Jackson, Chriss and Bender.

We need at least Chriss or Bender to pan if we want to go small.

 

[Hoop Head]

Here is the deal. With Jackson, Bridges, Shaq, Bender, Chriss, Holmes and even Reed coming off the bench, there is some real depth there (at least compared to our starting line up). If I am Igor, I would run hard, including the motion in the half court and energy on defense, and then substitute freely.

I don't think there is real depth so much as the gap in talent between starter and reserve isn't that great at a few positions. The players on the bench would be lucky to be in a rotation on a winning team and will ultimately play a large part in the Suns not improving that much. Just because we drafted some of them in the lottery or have played them in larger roles previously doesn't mean they'll deserve those minutes in the future.

 

[Chaplin]

The proof is he's a fringe NBA player who couldn't find a team until last season when the Suns went into tank mode 100%. Prior to that he was a G-Leaguer who never got much of a look. A lot of people here seem to think he'll take the starting PG job from Knight, not just because Knight sucks but because Harrison is such a good defender. Even taking exception with that and asking for proof that people overrate him is another example of people overrating him. What do you think he'll be next year? If you think he's any more than a fringe roster player that doesn't have a spot in the rotation then you're overrating him because that's the player he's been since he left college. Until he proves otherwise, in the NBA and not Summer League, that's what he is. A G-League talent who may have a role somewhere as a third or fourth string PG that can't shoot but is an ok defender.

It’s not proof. I can’t tell if you are trying to be obtuse or you simply don’t understand what i said.

How is Okobo or Canaan currently any different than what you just described?

 

[Yuma]

Boy its hit the slow time of the year when a major argument breaks out over Shaq versus Canaan. I am good with either guy because neither one will bring us a championship. Now if we were arguing whether to have Lebron or the Slim Reaper, now that's an argument. Shaq versus Canaan, meh.

 

[SirStefan32]

It’s not proof. I can’t tell if you are trying to be obtuse or you simply don’t understand what i said.

How is Okobo or Canaan currently any different than what you just described?

Well, for one thing Canaan has played in 205 NBA games over several seasons, averaging 20+ minutes per game. It's certainly been a journeyman career, but a career nonetheless. He was actually drafted.

Okobo is a 20 year-old rookie who just got drafted. Harrison is an undrafted 24 year-old.

 

[Phrazbit]

Where have you seen Harrison's deal is guaranteed? Everything I've seen about it said his guarantee date was pushed back but not passed as of yet and he only has a guarantee amount of 50k that's hit already. That much isn't enough to factor into anything really.

You're right, my bad, I thought he had a guaranteed contract.

Even so, I think Harrison has better odds, but I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

[Hoop Head]

It’s not proof. I can’t tell if you are trying to be obtuse or you simply don’t understand what i said.

How is Okobo or Canaan currently any different than what you just described?

What proof do you really want that a player is overrated here? Are the comments not enough? Your own reaction shows that you overrate him. If you don't think he's overrated then provide proof of him being a viable NBA PG. He's barely played in 20 games, went undrafted, couldn't latch onto a team despite playing in the G-League for a couple of years. He's a fringe NBA player at best. That's what his history indicates. If you rate him higher than that there must be a reason but his history in the league doesn't indicate he's more than that.

Sir Steph has done a good job raising other points and differences between Canaan and Harrison. Okobo is a rookie who was just drafted and is 19 years old. He played professionally overseas and got selected highly in the 2nd round, which is something Harrison can't say. It took him until he was 24 to get a chance to make an NBA team and it was on the worst team in the league also, who happened to need a PG.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, for one thing Canaan has played in 205 NBA games over several seasons, averaging 20+ minutes per game. It's certainly been a journeyman career, but a career nonetheless. He was actually drafted.

Okobo is a 20 year-old rookie who just got drafted. Harrison is an undrafted 24 year-old.

Again, so what? You act like you’re comparing Negele Knight to Steve Nash and Jason Kidd! That’s extreme, yes, but these guys are all variations of the same theme. Okobo at least has some potential, but there is no way that Harrison is vastly overrated by this board, which is the accusation you through out.

 

[Yuma]

Again, so what? You act like you’re comparing Negele Knight to Steve Nash and Jason Kidd! That’s extreme, yes, but these guys are all variations of the same theme. Okobo at least has some potential, but there is no way that Harrison is vastly overrated by this board, which is the accusation you through out.

You had to diss Knight. Damn dude! ;-)

 

[Chaplin]

What proof do you really want that a player is overrated here? Are the comments not enough? Your own reaction shows that you overrate him. If you don't think he's overrated then provide proof of him being a viable NBA PG. He's barely played in 20 games, went undrafted, couldn't latch onto a team despite playing in the G-League for a couple of years. He's a fringe NBA player at best. That's what his history indicates. If you rate him higher than that there must be a reason but his history in the league doesn't indicate he's more than that.

When did I ever overrate Harrison? I have said and been clear that he is not overrated because all 4 of our potential PGs are average to below average. And you’ll be hard pressed to find anybody on this board that would think otherwise. So think about who and what you are accusing because you are WAY off base.

 

[Hoop Head]

Again, so what? You act like you’re comparing Negele Knight to Steve Nash and Jason Kidd! That’s extreme, yes, but these guys are all variations of the same theme. Okobo at least has some potential, but there is no way that Harrison is vastly overrated by this board, which is the accusation you through out.

Look at this thread, there are a number of people calling for Harrison to start at PG. Have you not seen that? It's not an uncommon thing. If that isn't overrating him then what is, seriously? He's not a starting PG. He hasn't shown to be a good option to start at PG on a team that is going anywhere and his age suggests he's probably too old to learn how to be a good starting PG in the NBA very quickly.

https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/2018-19-season-point-guard-discussion.273900/

It's tough to search for posts specifically stating it because the language used is different by everyone but on that first page a number of posts start theorizing about him being our starting PG and how that is probably our best option based on the current roster.

 

[SirStefan32]

Again, so what? You act like you’re comparing Negele Knight to Steve Nash and Jason Kidd! That’s extreme, yes, but these guys are all variations of the same theme. Okobo at least has some potential, but there is no way that Harrison is vastly overrated by this board, which is the accusation you through out.

Canaan is an actual NBA player. Harrison is not. People want to keep Harrison over Canaan. That's overrating. Good Lord, this isn't complicated. Nobody is comparing Canaan to Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. We are just stating that he is an actual NBA player. 200+ games over several seasons, playing 20 minutes per game. That's an actual NBA player. He can defend, he can shoot, and when he played last year, the Suns were 8-11. That's all evidence that he is a real NBA player. Not necessarily a very good one, but an NBA player nonetheless. Harrison was brought in after every PG, including Canaan went down. Until that point, he played in zero NBA games. The very fact that anyone wants Harrison over Canaan is clear proof that we are overrating him.