2010 Playoffs: Round 1, Game 3 - Suns At Trail Blazers Game Thread

[AzStevenCal]

In the heat of competition you are not thinking about how you stepped off of the bench 3 years ago.

He should be. He absolutely should be. He really really absolutely should be. I understand your point on heat of the moment but this guy needs to know better and there is no reasonable excuse for him not to, IMO.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

I mean, did you watch the Rockets or Nuggets series last year against the Lakers. Both teams had players just mauling Kobe. Did he ever retaliate? Yeah, by throwing daggers at the net to kick their asses out of the playoffs. That's how the great ones beat you... they don't retaliate with force...

Looks like your conveniently selective memory is at full strength again. A few years ago, Bryant got tired of how closely Bell was guarding him, so he deliberately swung his elbows through Bell's face while he had the ball. He was Bryant, so of course there was no call (or possibly a foul on Bell), but it was one of the more blatant attempts to injure an opponent I've seen while the ball was actually in play.

 

[Michael]

Looks like your conveniently selective memory is at full strength again. A few years ago, Bryant got tired of how closely Bell was guarding him, so he deliberately swung his elbows through Bell's face while he had the ball. He was Bryant, so of course there was no call (or possibly a foul on Bell), but it was one of the more blatant attempts to injure an opponent I've seen while the ball was actually in play.

I also remember moping Kobe not taking a shot (maybe he took 1 or 2) against the Suns when things weren't going well. He basically gave up and blamed his team mates through his actions. Surely, this ain't the same as elbow attacks but it's just as dumb - at least. Worse yet, it didn't result in a suspension but rather in his team's exit and must have caused an explosion for the team's chemistry.

 

[nashman]

Amare actually controlled himself nicely IMO not sure what some of you were watching. They were killing him and he shrugged almost all of it off and shot the FT's. If anything when the refs were grabbing Aldridge he put his hands on the ref a few times there that could get him fined or suspended! Not sure what the hell game the refs were watching in that second half, how no flagrants were called on Portland is a JOKE!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Looks like your conveniently selective memory is at full strength again. A few years ago, Bryant got tired of how closely Bell was guarding him, so he deliberately swung his elbows through Bell's face while he had the ball. He was Bryant, so of course there was no call (or possibly a foul on Bell), but it was one of the more blatant attempts to injure an opponent I've seen while the ball was actually in play.

yeah, but he did it with the ball in his hands. so it could appear he was making a "basketball play." he did it in an action that he could at least argue wasn't meant to be an attack. kobe would never throw something as blantant as what amare just did. b/c he's not stupid enough to get himself suspended from a playoff game.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I also remember moping Kobe not taking a shot (maybe he took 1 or 2) against the Suns when things weren't going well. He basically gave up and blamed his team mates through his actions. Surely, this ain't the same as elbow attacks but it's just as dumb - at least. Worse yet, it didn't result in a suspension but rather in his team's exit and must have caused an explosion for the team's chemistry.

yeah, an explosion that resulted in the front office capitulating to kobe's demands to surround him with better players thus resulting in a championship. bad choice for an argument.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Amare actually controlled himself nicely IMO not sure what some of you were watching. They were killing him and he shrugged almost all of it off and shot the FT's. If anything when the refs were grabbing Aldridge he put his hands on the ref a few times there that could get him fined or suspended! Not sure what the hell game the refs were watching in that second half, how no flagrants were called on Portland is a JOKE!

the league reviews all plays and can still hand down flagrants. if they don't, you just don't understand the rules.

honestly, i cannot believe how soft a lot of you guys are in watching hoops. have you not, at this point in your lives, watched enough nba playoffs to understand how the games are played and officiated? yes, there's a double standard from the regular season to the playoffs. it's a fact of life. get used to it and accept it. to do otherwise just continues your whining. it's really unbecoming. if your team can't nut up and win, well, then your team is soft. to date, our team has been soft. i hate it. but i deal with it. as cheese stated, the best revenge is to put the ball in the hole, take your W, and watch the losers go home. physical retaliation is stupid.

 

[82CardsGrad]

the league reviews all plays and can still hand down flagrants. if they don't, you just don't understand the rules.

honestly, i cannot believe how soft a lot of you guys are in watching hoops. have you not, at this point in your lives, watched enough nba playoffs to understand how the games are played and officiated? yes, there's a double standard from the regular season to the playoffs. it's a fact of life. get used to it and accept it. to do otherwise just continues your whining. it's really unbecoming. if your team can't nut up and win, well, then your team is soft. to date, our team has been soft. i hate it. but i deal with it. as cheese stated, the best revenge is to put the ball in the hole, take your W, and watch the losers go home. physical retaliation is stupid.

You nailed it... I have been a very loud and steady voice proclaiming the softness of this team for years!

However, I thought they got over a huge psychological hurdle last night when the Blazers decided their only option was to turn the game into a rugby match and then closed the Suns lead to 11 points. The Suns did "nut up" and eventualyl closed down the Blazers.
I also believe it's very clear that the Blazers are going after Amare, and are targeting his face. Amare will be tested like never before on Saturday. God I hope he finds a way to keep his cool...

 

[Chaplin]

There is no indication the league office is actually reviewing the play to begin with, so all this vilifying Amare by Suns fans seems baseless and overly negative considering we are in full control of this series.

And yes, this IS the playoffs. Which is where plays like that actually happen quite frequently and are rarely called. Nice that people here are attacking others over this.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Okay well you are going to have to tell me what a "true superstar" is, then. I'm just trying to cut Stoudemire (and other players) some slack in these kinds of instances. You are saying that superstars never make these kinds of mistakes. Howard and Garnett both made more grievous mistakes so Stoudemire must at least be a bigger star than either of them, no? No.

not sure how you're not getting the distinction here... superstars don't make the same mistakes TWICE. And yes, something that happened three years ago that cost you a title should be something ingrained in your head if you're a smart player.

again, ignore or misunderstand all you want... all those guys you listed made mistakes... but they LEARNED from them. Making the same mistake twice to me shows a player's mental toughness or lack thereof, which is Amare's biggest short-coming. Always has been and fear always will be.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Looks like your conveniently selective memory is at full strength again. A few years ago, Bryant got tired of how closely Bell was guarding him, so he deliberately swung his elbows through Bell's face while he had the ball. He was Bryant, so of course there was no call (or possibly a foul on Bell), but it was one of the more blatant attempts to injure an opponent I've seen while the ball was actually in play.

Sorry E... I remember that blow and was pissed by it, but it wasn't even close to the stupidity that Amare pulled, away from the ball and all by his lonesome. Kobe and Raja were both pushing and shoving each other, with the ball and all arms and legs were flailing. It was pretty much the perfect time for a bush league player to make a bush league move. But was it a play that he could be suspended for? No way in hell they could suspend there with all the jostling going on.

and even say I'm wrong here... did Kobe ever do that AGAIN in the playoffs? No. Because smart players don't make the same mistakes over and over again, especially when they're being goaded into them into getting kicked out.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There is no indication the league office is actually reviewing the play to begin with, so all this vilifying Amare by Suns fans seems baseless and overly negative considering we are in full control of this series.

And yes, this IS the playoffs. Which is where plays like that actually happen quite frequently and are rarely called. Nice that people here are attacking others over this.

has anyone been attacked in this thread (besides Amare?). Seems like a pretty robust back and forth conversation on the topic. anyone feel like they've been attacked here?

 

[elindholm]

he did it in an action that he could at least argue wasn't meant to be an attack.

Stoudemire could argue he was jockeying for inbounds position. Both would be transparent lies, but they're equally plausible.

kobe would never throw something as blantant as what amare just did.

In my opinion it was more blatant.

 

[elindholm]

It was pretty much the perfect time for a bush league player to make a bush league move. But was it a play that he could be suspended for? No way in hell they could suspend there with all the jostling going on.

You're just using the same double standard the league does. When Stoudemire gets bullied over and over, then finally retaliates, he's an out-of-control thug; whereas when it happens to Bryant, he's just engaging in "jostling."

Because smart players don't make the same mistakes over and over again, especially when they're being goaded into them into getting kicked out.

I think you wouldn't be giving this latest incident a second thought had the Portland broadcasters not spent the next hour wetting their pants over it. It's the same kind of thing that happens ten times a game, even in the regular season.

 

[Cheesewater]

After some research...

Kobe has thrown elbows and/or punches at Chris Childs, Reggie Miller, Mike Miller, Manu Ginobili, Rajon Rondo, and Matt Barnes to name a few. All resulted in at least technicals and several suspensions for Bryant.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/04/nba_to_assess_suns_amare_stoud.html

NBA to assess Suns Amar'e Stoudemire with Flagrant Foul 1 for elbow to LaMarcus Aldridge

Phoenix forward Amar'e Stoudemire will be assessed a Flagrant Foul 1 by the NBA for throwing an elbow at Portland forward LaMarcus Aldridge, The Oregonian has learned.

The incident happened with about 20 seconds left in the third quarter as Stoudemire was battling Aldridge for rebounding position. Aldridge became incensed and charged at Stoudemire, after which both players were given technical fouls with 18.1 seconds left.

The Blazers asked the NBA to review the tape, contesting that Stoudemire's elbow was above the shoulders, which by NBA rule constitutes an automatic ejection. But after reviewing videotape, the league only handed down a Flagrant Foul penalty.

"Although we don't always agree with the league, we always respect their decisions,'' Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard said.

 

[Cheesewater]

not sure how you're not getting the distinction here... superstars don't make the same mistakes TWICE. And yes, something that happened three years ago that cost you a title should be something ingrained in your head if you're a smart player.

again, ignore or misunderstand all you want... all those guys you listed made mistakes... but they LEARNED from them. Making the same mistake twice to me shows a player's mental toughness or lack thereof, which is Amare's biggest short-coming. Always has been and fear always will be.

Stop making this an argument about whether Amare is a true superstar. I conceded that right off the bat.

I am telling you that 3 years and hundreds of games later, in the absolute tick of the second hand in a heated game is not a reasonable time to expect an athlete to necessarily make what you determine as the right decision. It doesn't appear that you've ever been in an even remotely similar situation, thus devaluing your opinion of what Stoudemire should do.

I absolutely abhor oversimplification. Stoudemire's suspension three years ago did not alone cost the Suns a title.

As for learning, see my above post of all the times Kobe Bryant didn't learn from his mistakes. Oh sorry...not in the playoffs so it doesn't count.

 

[Cheesebeef]

After some research...

Kobe has thrown elbows and/or punches at Chris Childs, Reggie Miller, Mike Miller, Manu Ginobili, Rajon Rondo, and Matt Barnes to name a few. All resulted in at least technicals and several suspensions for Bryant.

several suspensions... none of them in the playoffs. Why? Because Kobe knows when he can get his licks in and when he can't. Again, you keep trying to make this comparison between all these guys and Amare when I think you keep failing to acknowledge the glaring difference. Amare has already cost us a series and a likely title and is still doing the same thing now as he did back then.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Stop making this an argument about whether Amare is a true superstar. I conceded that right off the bat.

I am telling you that 3 years and hundreds of games later, in the absolute tick of the second hand in a heated game is not a reasonable time to expect an athlete to necessarily make what you determine as the right decision.

it's EXACTLY the time a player needs to make the right decision IMO. That's the ONLY time it matters is when someone's goading you into something and truthfully, it shouldn't even matter that he already made the mistake once. Even if this was the first time it happened I'd have said it was stupid (just as it was in Dwight and KG's circumstance). The fact that it happened again just makes it even more infuriating.

And I don't buy the "tick of a second argument"... that blow was coming from a mile away. You could see it in Amare from the beginning of the game. They were getting under his skin and got him to respond. I texted Ouchie that very thing in the first quarter. So I don't buy the tick of a second because it was something boiling for a while. That tick is just when he blew.

It doesn't appear that you've ever been in an even remotely similar situation, thus devaluing your opinion of what Stoudemire should do.

Wrong. I was a hot-head in every sport I ever played, just like Amare. I couldn't handle my temper on the court and repeatedly made the same mistakes over and over again. I've been kicked out of games for arguing with referees (who ended up reversing the call after I got kicked out... pretty funny), gotten into fights with players who were pushing me around and the like. I know how frustrating basketball or any sport can be when people play you dirty.

I absolutely abhor oversimplification. Stoudemire's suspension three years ago did not alone cost the Suns a title.

it sure as hell didn't help and yes, it was a HUGE thing that derailed us. We didn't have a fighting chance in that series after he got bounced. We had to expend every bit of energy possible just to lose a swing game 5 at home and then... ah, why am I even arguing this. Even if he alone didn't cost us that series, his suspension was HUGE and he should have learned how that hurt the team.

As for learning, see my above post of all the times Kobe Bryant didn't learn from his mistakes. Oh sorry...not in the playoffs so it doesn't count.

you're right, it doesn't count IMO... I said it above but I'll say it again, players get their licks in the regular season because there aren't as dire consequences. Only truly weak minded players get goaded into blowing up during the biggest moment of the season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2010/04/nba_to_assess_suns_amare_stoud.html

NBA to assess Suns Amar'e Stoudemire with Flagrant Foul 1 for elbow to LaMarcus Aldridge

whew! OK Stat, you got a lick in after they got SEVERAL in on you. Just keep your cool and run those suckers out of the gym tomorrow!

 

[Chaplin]

Wrong. I am a hot-head on every message board I ever post on, just like Amare.

FTFY

 

[Cheesebeef]

FTFY

tis true... a couple years ago but not anymore. Just cause I think Amare's a simpleton doesn't mean I think the people who defend him are. posting a lot on a subject doesn't mean I'm hot-headed... just means I'm engaged.

on the other hand... someone who tries to start fights in the TV forum of all places...

 

[Chaplin]

tis true... a couple years ago but not anymore. Just cause I think Amare's a simpleton doesn't mean I think the people who defend him are. posting a lot on a subject doesn't mean I'm hot-headed... just means I'm engaged.

on the other hand... someone who tries to start fights in the TV forum of all places...

Well, we both work in television, so doesn't it make a bit of sense?

 

[SunsTzu]

whew! OK Stat, you got a lick in after they got SEVERAL in on you. Just keep your cool and run those suckers out of the gym tomorrow!

Hopefully this incident will make the refs pay closer attention to whats going on with Amare. I think they will be calling the game closer tomorrow.

 

[cly2tw]

Hopefully this incident will make the refs pay closer attention to whats going on with Amare. I think they will be calling the game closer tomorrow.

I hope the league assured the accusers that they'd watch the next games closely to prevent those incidents before they escalate to this level of some player seeing it necessary to retaliate. Blazers ought to get, and deservely so, what they asked for.