15 thoughts - training camp

[oaken1]

Yes you can. You can be injured and then, when you return, you can be unable to contribute on the field. These aren't mutually exclusive categories.

When you're on the field, you should be evaluated based on your quality as a player on the field (someone who's earned those reps).

Why is this hard?

Yeah...400 snaps, we got 40 TCKL's, 15 TFL, 5 knockdowns, 4 sacks, 1 batted pass.

IMO probably fairly average production for a rookie OLB.
Nothing to stir up fantasy dreams over. Nothing that screams big time bust incoming. 38% of defensive snaps is also fairly on point.

Now,...if Walter Nolen puts up those same stats as a rookie,..it might be a bit more exciting.

One of the major Pro's AND Con's on Ojulari is the fact he is so young...20 in the rookie campaign IIRC...adds more hopium to the stats.... But at this point Beej probably thinks Drew Kreuger is his Head Coach.
Dude needs to get on the field and play football.
I noticed on a stat sheet they had him listed at 263...I think thats a bit bulkier than his rookie season...didnt he play at 245?....the added weight can be pro or con...strength is good, but agility and weight distribution on the knee could be a disadvantage

 

[Chopper0080]

Although he was active his entire rookie season, he missed much of the pre-season recovering from a knee injury. You just can't ignore this when evaluating his rookie season.

This is where I disagree. In year 1, he wasn't healthy and/or he wasn't impactful. Neither is an indicator of future success. In year 2, he wasn't healthy. That is what Ojulari has shown as a pro. If you are projecting what he has shown in the league, he hasn't been healthy and hasn't been good. The only reason fans believe Ojulari has something to contribute is his draft status as a second rounder. IMO, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with what he has shown on the field.

The most honest Ojulari statement is "He played 37% of defensive snaps his rookie season on one of the 6 worst defenses in the NFL, missed his second season with an ACL. I hope he can recover from the ACL and hopefully live up to his 2nd round draft status".

 

[Chopper0080]

Yeah...400 snaps, we got 40 TCKL's, 15 TFL, 5 knockdowns, 4 sacks, 1 batted pass.

IMO probably fairly average production for a rookie OLB.
Nothing to stir up fantasy dreams over. Nothing that screams big time bust incoming. 38% of defensive snaps is also fairly on point.

Now,...if Walter Nolen puts up those same stats as a rookie,..it might be a bit more exciting.

One of the major Pro's AND Con's on Ojulari is the fact he is so young...20 in the rookie campaign IIRC...adds more hopium to the stats.... But at this point Beej probably thinks Drew Kreuger is his Head Coach.
Dude needs to get on the field and play football.
I noticed on a stat sheet they had him listed at 263...I think thats a bit bulkier than his rookie season...didnt he play at 245?....the added weight can be pro or con...strength is good, but agility and weight distribution on the knee could be a disadvantage

Point of clarification...he had 5 TFLs, not 15.

He basically had a Clelin Ferrell rookie season (with less snaps) and then followed it up with missing his entire 2nd year. Who knows what he is going to be but nothing on the field is an indicator he will produce as a starter.

 

[oaken1]

Point of clarification...he had 5 TFLs, not 15.

He basically had a Clelin Ferrell rookie season (with less snaps) and then followed it up with missing his entire 2nd year. Who knows what he is going to be but nothing on the field is an indicator he will produce as a starter.

I stand corrected...the stats get jumbled

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah...400 snaps, we got 40 TCKL's, 15 TFL, 5 knockdowns, 4 sacks, 1 batted pass.

IMO probably fairly average production for a rookie OLB.
Nothing to stir up fantasy dreams over. Nothing that screams big time bust incoming. 38% of defensive snaps is also fairly on point.

Now,...if Walter Nolen puts up those same stats as a rookie,..it might be a bit more exciting.

One of the major Pro's AND Con's on Ojulari is the fact he is so young...20 in the rookie campaign IIRC...adds more hopium to the stats.... But at this point Beej probably thinks Drew Kreuger is his Head Coach.
Dude needs to get on the field and play football.
I noticed on a stat sheet they had him listed at 263...I think thats a bit bulkier than his rookie season...didnt he play at 245?....the added weight can be pro or con...strength is good, but agility and weight distribution on the knee could be a disadvantage

Pro Football Reference has him at 256
NFL.com has him at 248, as does the team website.

I don't think they do official weigh-ins until the first week of camp. We'll know more shortly.

It's important to remember that Beej was "blocked" by Zaven Collins, Dennis Gardeck, Victor Dimukeje, and Cam Thomas as a rookie. On a 4-13 team.

If Ojulari earns +35% of defensive snaps playing with Sweat, Collins, Robinson, Browning, and Thomas on a team that should be trying to win 10 or more games, that'll be great news. Here's how the snaps broke down on the 2022 Eagles for reference:

Reddick: 73.87%
Sweat: 52.07%
Brandon Graham: 42.86%

 

[Chopper0080]

I stand corrected...the stats get jumbled

I think we all have done it time to time. No worries.

 

[Chopper0080]

And here is the thing...I have high hopes for Darius Robinson that are similarly more vibes/hopium based than what he actually did on the field. I just have to own that fact.

 

[oaken1]

And here is the thing...I have high hopes for Darius Robinson that are similarly more vibes/hopium based than what he actually did on the field. I just have to own that fact.

same... but it is based on me seeing him get a few really solid bull rushes...and knowing that physical strength is usually the biggest hurdle for Line players coming into the NFL. The kid is strong enough to play in the league...should get stronger...and needs to develop an arsenal of techniques.
my hopium is that our coaching staff seems pretty committed to development

 

[Totally_Red]

same... but it is based on me seeing him get a few really solid bull rushes...and knowing that physical strength is usually the biggest hurdle for Line players coming into the NFL. The kid is strong enough to play in the league...should get stronger...and needs to develop an arsenal of techniques.
my hopium is that our coaching staff seems pretty committed to development

I am way more optimistic about DRob than Ojulari.

 

[kerouac9]

I am way more optimistic about DRob than Ojulari.

I am, too. That's really based on him being a higher draft pick in a higher-quality class.

 

[Gandhi]

Not sure Prater is even under contract...pretty sure his extension expired while he was on IR

Dear Lord, how can I make a massive blunder like that?

Anyway, you are obviously correct. It will take me a long time to find that camp battle.

 

[Gandhi]

Amari Cooper wont have issues being a #3 wherever he signs. He had a worse year than Michael Wilson despite being asked to be the #1 guy for the Bills/Browns. He is extremely washed. He would be competing with Zay Jones for snaps.

Many people say that he is washed, but I don’t know. He went for 1250 yards in 2023, and all second half of last season he was injured. Also, he would not be asked to be anything special in this offseason. Actually, mostly an advanced decoy. I just doubt that he sees himself like that, and certainly he has earned enough to reject.

By the way, of my proposed ideas, I am leaning toward Gabe Davis.

 

[Gandhi]

I might be misreading but is your implication that Wilson would start over Terry if we traded for him?

No, absolutely not. Harrison and McBride are #1 and #2, and Wilson would be #4. Actually, if they did bring in McLaurin, he might limit McBride a little.

 

[slanidrac16]

Many people say that he is washed, but I don’t know. He went for 1250 yards in 2023, and all second half of last season he was injured. Also, he would not be asked to be anything special in this offseason. Actually, mostly an advanced decoy. I just doubt that he sees himself like that, and certainly he has earned enough to reject.

By the way, of my proposed ideas, I am leaning toward Gabe Davis.

I don’t see us trading or picking up another wr unless we get a rash of injuries. Davis simply drops too many passes.
Most surprising is during this whole thread the name Kyler Murray didn’t come up.

 

[Gandhi]

3 - Most Critical yes, because this is arguebly the pressure point of the entire roster, where there isn't a clear alternative. But it's kinda a 0/1 outcome. Either he is ready or he's not. I'm looking more forward to the CB room, DT room and Reiman's development.

Honestly, the #16 thought - that I deleted to get to #15 for this column - was about Tip Reiman. Now, obviously I should have kept it since I screwed up on the one with Ryland and Prater, but my reasoning was that we might not know about his development before the regular season. We already know that he can be a stud blocking player, and I just don’t know if he would prove much about his passing game in training camp and in a preseason game?

Anyway, absolutely one of the most intriguing players going forward.

9 - Stills and Starling Thomas are the only ones that could give a mid round pick in return. And I doubt they are moved.

Doubt MO can get much for any other. No one wants to take Nicols contract. Clark and Jaden Davis would have to show insane play in pre-season in order for someone to give something in return.

Really? Collier, Justin Jones, Xavier Thomas, Owen Pappoe. And that’s just some of the potential options.

10 - Fact is that he WAS an UDFA. I disagree with him being the only choice behind Tomlinson. Justin Jones was a quality player in Chicago playing 2nd fiddle and taking up space for Hicks etc. Jones makes the team . Simmons to the PS IMO.

Justin Jones did not play the role of a true two-gapping giant in the middle of the defensive line.

 

[Gandhi]

We can be honest with each other and say Beej maybe made the most of limited opportunities or progressed in his rookie season, but hard to justify a blanket he did great.

That is all I have been saying, and I would guess it is what most feel about him. Hence, he showed promise.

 

[Gandhi]

I don’t see us trading or picking up another wr unless we get a rash of injuries. Davis simply drops too many passes.
Most surprising is during this whole thread the name Kyler Murray didn’t come up.

That is actually on purpose, Slanidrac. As I mentioned, to me, training camp is about finding developments, and I doubt that Murray will show us anything to change our opinions about him. I think he will do fine, but I don’t think it tells us much.

About the WR, yeah, I agree that they will probably not bring anyone new. You could also argue that we don’t truly know what they have in Zay Jones.

 

[kerouac9]

Really? Collier, Justin Jones, Xavier Thomas, Owen Pappoe. And that’s just some of the potential options.

None of these guys have any trade value. People could have gotten Collier for nothing four months ago.

Every team in the NFL has a Xavier Thomas or two. He’s Cap Capi. He’s Victor Dimukeje.

Owen Pappoe is a replacement level ILB.

 

[BACH]

Really? Collier, Justin Jones, Xavier Thomas, Owen Pappoe. And that’s just some of the potential options.



Justin Jones did not play the role of a true two-gapping giant in the middle of the defensive line.

I know they are options. Just saying that I doubt they would get more than a 7th round pick in return - if that. It would take a desperate team to give anything for them.

True on Jones. Not the stereotypical two gapper. But he was the DT getting most snaps and keeping the two better players fresh by limiting their snaps.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Although he was active his entire rookie season, he missed much of the pre-season recovering from a knee injury. You just can't ignore this when evaluating his rookie season.

Of course not. But it doesn’t excuse what we saw in the rare instances that he got on the field and the fact that he just didn’t get on the field much. Those are facts.

I’m looking forward to seeing if he’s got anything resembling the promise that got him drafted highly. But that’s all it is, hope.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Do not argue against that.

But he cannot be injured AND unable to contribute when on the field at the same time.

Correct. Unfortunately for BJ he was one then the other. A bad combo.

 

[BACH]

Many people say that he is washed, but I don’t know. He went for 1250 yards in 2023, and all second half of last season he was injured. Also, he would not be asked to be anything special in this offseason. Actually, mostly an advanced decoy. I just doubt that he sees himself like that, and certainly he has earned enough to reject.

By the way, of my proposed ideas, I am leaning toward Gabe Davis.

From everything we have seen from MO my conclusion is that he’ll go with the young talent to develop unless it’s a significant upgrade. Marginal better, expensive and older veterans will not be brought in IMO.

 

[Stout]

Correct. Unfortunately for BJ he was one then the other. A bad combo.

And Beej can be blamed on Monti all the way. He didn't do anything else to really address the position and drafted Beej injured. Not wise and set the team back.

 

[Goldfield]

The great thing about building team depth is now we don’t NEED Bj to be a top player we have other options to lean on. Of course we still hope he becomes what we expected with a high 2nd round pick, but it’s not as necessary.

 

[BACH]

And Beej can be blamed on Monti all the way. He didn't do anything else to really address the position and drafted Beej injured. Not wise and set the team back.

Does Monti then get full credit for Williams?

Williams had injury concerns coming in. Beej had no history of injury and the minor injury wasn’t considered a red flag at all. Williams had a red flag and was a much bigger risk