15 thoughts - Rosen vs. Murray

Gandhi

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It might be a stretch to devote an entire post to this, but I just think there is a lot to think about and to discuss. You know, on one hand or the other. Maybe it’s a smokescreen, maybe it isn’t. So I am going to try to do just that.

1 – At first I definitely thought this was just one of those crazy draft stories with the sole purpose of bringing attention to the team and the event, but now it’s hard not to at least respect and accept the possibility that the Cardinals could indeed trade Josh Rosen and draft Kyler Murray. Still, I do think it’s a smokescreen, and I think the Cardinals will use every opportunity to reinforce that uncertainty.

2 - I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Keim says “Rosen is our quarterback right now. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the team website publish an article causing even more doubt on the topic, just about a week after they tried to erase any doubt that Rosen was the guy. I don’t even think it’s crazy to suspect that Rosen is in on it himself, and that he did in fact remove any Cardinals-related from his Facebook only to create a certain assumption around the league. I think we should all be prepared to be dragged through a whirlwind of conflicting and confusing signs for about two months more.

3 – Obviously, no matter what the Cardinals end up doing, they have a major interest in the pick being as valuable as possible. Everyone know the Niners and the Jets won’t take Murray, so going by the theory that the Cards’ pick would cost the most, why wouldn’t teams try to buy one of those two other picks for less? Because there is only one way to be sure to get Murray, and thus the Cardinals want Murray to be as coveted as possible – or at least create the assumption that he is very coveted - so that teams won’t dare to take the chance that he will slide to them at #2, #3, #4 or whatever spot they will trade up to. And in order for him to be that coveted, the Cardinals want to talk him up as much as possible. The more paranoid teams get that they will miss out on Murray, the better it is for the Cardinals. Again, this is true no matter if the Cardinals wants Murray themselves or not.

4 – Would we have heard the slightest thing about Kingsbury’s comments leading up to the Oklahoma-game if the Cards did not have the first pick? Would there ever be talk about the Cards wanting to trade up to target Murray? I don’t know.

5 – Say they do actually trade Rosen and draft Murray, then in the span of very short time Keim and Bidwill would have hired a head coach and fired him the year after, and traded up in the top 10 of the first round to select a quarterback, only to trade him away the year after. I doubt they would put themselves in that situation. That would be a whole lot of screw-up in a very short amount of time.

6 – A huge reason why the Cardinals hired Kliff Kingsbury was to help Josh Rosen. I know some will want you to believe that Murray was Kingsbury’s preference all along, but don’t believe it for one second. First, Murray had not declared for the draft at that time. Second, nobody knew if he wanted to play baseball.

7 – There’s something to be said about going all in on Kingsbury now that you have hired him, and if it’s true that he wants Murray, then maybe you should go for it.

8 – So Josh Rosen is not a fit in Kingsbury’s offense? Other than the fact that none of us know how Kingsbury’s offense will look like, I would also think that if Kingsbury is as smart as everyone say he is, then he can make it work with Josh Rosen, just as if Josh Rosen is as smart as everyone say he is, then he can make it work with Kliff Kingsbury.

9 – Every report says there will be substantial interest in Rosen if they do decide to trade him. No wonder? There’s a reason for that. The guy is good.

10 – If they can get a first round pick in return for Rosen, then the factual damage from drafting him would be limited to a not-so-relevant cap hit and the possibility of drafting a stud instead of Rosen. The last part is obviously by far the most significant. Several studs were drafted after the 10. spot.

11 – Who knows what the internal damage in the organization would be? The players questioning Kingsbury for wanting “his guy” instead of adjusting his approach to the players? The entire organization questioning Keim’s and Bidwill’s decision making (with Keim it would be questioning it even more after his drunk driving, and thus questioning his personal decisions AND his professional decisions)? Something else? I don’t know. I am just pointing attention to the possibility.

12 – A year ago, it was Steve Keim’s decision to trade up in the first round and draft Josh Rosen. Drafting Rosen was not Steve Wilks’ choice, just as drafting Murray won’t be Kingsbury’s choice. Both will be Keim’s (with Michael Bidwill’s blessing), and again, would he willingly put himself in that position?

13 – A year ago I would have thought that Rosen´s career would always be tied to and compared to the other quarterbacks in his class, especially since three of them got selected before him, but now there is no doubt that even more so Rosen’s career will be tied to Murray’s.

14 – The report that taking Murray #1 overall is “a done deal”, almost two months away from the draft? I mean, really? Anyone really believe that?

15 – If the Cardinals do select Murray, then maybe the Niners will take Bosa, and then Bosa gets to do his best to destroy Murray and get his vengeance over the Cardinals two times each year. That is a scary thought.
 

GuernseyCard

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6 – A huge reason why the Cardinals hired Kliff Kingsbury was to help Josh Rosen. I know some will want you to believe that Murray was Kingsbury’s preference all along, but don’t believe it for one second. First, Murray had not declared for the draft at that time. Second, nobody knew if he wanted to play baseball.

BINGO!
 

BW52

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1.Agree
2.agree
3.Agree
4.I doubt it .Media running the Murray hype train.
5.It would incredibly stupid to do so.
6. K/K and Rosen will work.
7.See number 6.
8.Agree
9.Agree
10.Still a risk
11.good points
12.I doubt it.
13.?
14.No one thinking rationally.
15.I hope Sk doesn`t fall for the media driven hype over "Jesus" Murray.
 

DRM08

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"First, Murray had not declared for the draft at that time. Second, nobody knew if he wanted to play baseball."

Murray put out a pretty public statement about his football plans the very day after Kingsbury was hired. The timing looks pretty suspicious if you are going down the rabbit hole they intended to get Kliff and Murray as a package deal the whole time.

But I think they just want to create as much interest as possible and maybe someone like the Raiders will trade into the #1 spot.
 

TheCardFan

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"First, Murray had not declared for the draft at that time. Second, nobody knew if he wanted to play baseball."

Murray put out a pretty public statement about his football plans the very day after Kingsbury was hired. The timing looks pretty suspicious if you are going down the rabbit hole they intended to get Kliff and Murray as a package deal the whole time.

But I think they just want to create as much interest as possible and maybe someone like the Raiders will trade into the #1 spot.

Let's ask the guy from Reddit.
 

daves

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I lean toward the smokescreen theory (i.e. Cards intend to keep Rosen but are trying to drive up the value of the #1 pick for a trade down to a team interested in Murray)... but i'm wondering how Keim could pull off simultaneously shopping Rosen (thus implying that he intends to pick Murray at #1) and shopping the #1 pick to a team that wants Murray.

I'm assuming that some GMs talk to some others privately about what's being shopped to them by other teams.

To shop Rosen to another team conditionally, for that team's #1 pick if Murray is still on the board, requires that another team is willing to give up a pretty high #1 pick for Rosen. And if word of that conditional deal got out, other GMs would know that the Cardinals don't intend to pick Murray at #1, thus lessening the trade-down value of the #1 pick.

Hmmm....

...dave
 

slanidrac16

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I think the cards are paving a few roads here and will take the best one when the time comes. 1. Covet Murray letting everyone know if you want him ( or Bosa!)you will have to go thru us. 2. In the meantime I don’t think the cardinals are shopping Rosen but I’m sure they are not refusing phone calls. If the crazy right offer is there then maybe.3. field trades for the first pick , say the raiders making it appear we are not interested in Murray but they want Bosa. When we are on the clock with the 4th pick low and behold , back in the catbird seat. Murray could still be there. 4. We REALLY want Murray but we REALLY don’t want to eat an 8m cap hit. We take Murray , keep Rosen, dump Glennon and maybe deal Rosen next year with less of a cap hit. Many crazy scenarios which will become a little clearer after the first couple of weeks in free agency.
 

MrYeahBut

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If they trade out of #1, say goodbye to Bosa too. Suppose they trade to 5-7, who then is the pick? Take Bosa and be done with it.
 

az jam

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Good stuff, lots to analyze. IMO the Cards have not made a decision on the #1 pick which makes sense. The pro day for Murray will be important and I'm sure they will fly him here for a meeting and workout. Finally, the NFL loves this, we really won't know what will happen until the Cards on on the clock at the draft. It's great for the TV ratings!!!
 
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BW52

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Good stuff, lots to analyze. IMO the Cards have not made a decision on the #1 pick which makes sense. The pro day for Murray will be important and I'm sure they will fly him here for a meeting and workout. Finally, the NFL loves this, we really won't know what will happen until the Cards on on the clock at the dart. It's great for the TV ratings!!!


If the Cards draft Murray and when he fails to be anything other than short and then the cards will be ripped and bashed by the same idiot talking heads slobbering over wanting the Cards to pick Murray.The vultures will be gleedully saying" how could the Cards draft a 5`10 QB knowing there hasn`t been a successful short QB in the NFl".
 

ajcardfan

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Don't worry about #15. This will be the offseason the Cardinals "fix" the oline. We can really trust them to pick oline guys.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

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I think the cards are paving a few roads here and will take the best one when the time comes. 1. Covet Murray letting everyone know if you want him ( or Bosa!)you will have to go thru us. 2. In the meantime I don’t think the cardinals are shopping Rosen but I’m sure they are not refusing phone calls. If the crazy right offer is there then maybe.3. field trades for the first pick , say the raiders making it appear we are not interested in Murray but they want Bosa. When we are on the clock with the 4th pick low and behold , back in the catbird seat. Murray could still be there. 4. We REALLY want Murray but we REALLY don’t want to eat an 8m cap hit. We take Murray , keep Rosen, dump Glennon and maybe deal Rosen next year with less of a cap hit. Many crazy scenarios which will become a little clearer after the first couple of weeks in free agency.
"Yeah, what you said lol" damn good comment & it could possibly be spot on.
 

cardsfanmd

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We REALLY want Murray but we REALLY don’t want to eat an 8m cap hit. We take Murray , keep Rosen, dump Glennon and maybe deal Rosen next year with less of a cap hit.
I’m not sure why this has to be repeated over and over but it’s a 4mil cap hit this year.
 

slanidrac16

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I’m not sure why this has to be repeated over and over but it’s a 4mil cap hit this year.
It has been repeated 8 and 4 and quite frankly I don’t know which one is right. There’s that before June after June thing. But if we keep both how much do we save by cutting Glennon?
 

BW52

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It has been repeated 8 and 4 and quite frankly I don’t know which one is right. There’s that before June after June thing. But if we keep both how much do we save by cutting Glennon?

Why cut Glennon..he is a more than capable fill-in/backup.Glennon played okay when he saw action and a veteran backup never hurts.
 

slanidrac16

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Why cut Glennon..he is a more than capable fill-in/backup.Glennon played okay when he saw action and a veteran backup never hurts.
Glennon ain’t gonna do crap with this team. Rosen would be a better back up and we wouldn’t be throwing away cap space and save the money your paying Glennon. It’s better than giving away Rosen for pennies on the dollar.
 

BW52

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Glennon ain’t gonna do crap with this team. Rosen would be a better back up and we wouldn’t be throwing away cap space and save the money your paying Glennon. It’s better than giving away Rosen for pennies on the dollar.

If You want Rosen as backup then I guess you buy into the Murray narrative hype train BS?
 

slanidrac16

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If You want Rosen as backup then I guess you buy into the Murray narrative hype train BS?
Not necessarily. I’ve voted for stay the course. However , if we do draft Murray I’d rather hold on to Rosen rather than give him away for pennies on the dollar. This team has had qb issues for years. It took two aging veterans to salvage some respect over the last 11 years. If Murray were to get injured in week 1 I would rather have Rosen coming in relief than Glennon. If Rosen excels then look at the equity we’d have going into 2020. The thing I’m struggling with is Bosa is just 1 guy who played a de in a 4-3 defense which he stated he prefers. Could we find a pass rusher with #33? Maybe a guy like Burns?
 

gamebird98

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NY radio saying all we would get for Rosen is a 3rd at best......if that's the case....keep him. If they choose to pick Murrary, let them compete in camp. Perhaps if Rosen shows signs of success, then u have someone u can trade. Personally, I'd prefer not to select Murray.
 

Arz101

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Looking forward to seeing Haskins selected before Murray.

This cannot be ruled out. Remember the hoopla about Tebow and he was selected #24 by Bronocs only coz Josh McDaniels is a head case.
 
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Gandhi

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I think this is an epic smokescreen. Talk the Raiders into trading up.

Imagine if they end up offering two first round picks and their high second round pick, or even something slightly lesser. That would be difficult to reject.
 

slanidrac16

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Imagine if they end up offering two first round picks and their high second round pick, or even something slightly lesser. That would be difficult to reject.
Just going by the “chart” a equal trade would be the raiders 4,27, and a swap of our 33 for their 37. Just sayin.
 

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