New Owner - Mat Ishbia

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Right now the trade was a failure. The Suns aren't in a better position than they were prior to the trade. They suffered the same embarrassing second round exit after a blowout on their home floor. So we didn't achieve more and we now don't have a coach. Say what you want about Monty but he took us to the playoffs 3 times in 4 years and to the Finals as well. We haven't hired his replacement yet but we've seen some coaches sign on elsewhere that we had our eye on. With the new CBA in effect we're almost forced to trade Ayton and/or CP3 for depth because there's no other way to acquire depth players beyond minimum contracts. We can't even sign buy out players next season if they make more than the midlevel exception, which 90% of the buyout players do. So we're in a very difficult spot where we need to win now before KD falls off a cliff like CP3 did.
Right now the Suns are $16m under the 2nd tax apron with 6 players under contract, CP’s deal fully guaranteed and all other FA’s renounced. If they execute trades for Ayton & Paul and stay under $179m threshold they will have their Tax Payer MLE and BAE. The rest of the roster would be filled with minimum level exceptions. The following season (24-25’) is when we will likely be hardcapped without much wiggle room to improve.
 

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Right now the Suns are $16m under the 2nd tax apron with 6 players under contract, CP’s deal fully guaranteed and all other FA’s renounced. If they execute trades for Ayton & Paul and stay under $179m threshold they will have their Tax Payer MLE and BAE. The rest of the roster would be filled with minimum level exceptions. The following season (24-25’) is when we will likely be hardcapped without much wiggle room to improve.


To add to what you are saying, as I understand it, the taxpayer MLE, $7,021,000, is much lower than the standard MLE which is $11,368,000.

The Bi-annual exception is $4,448,000.

The use of the exceptions is all dependent upon the Suns staying under tax apron.

So after any trades, this is what the Suns have to work with, providing they don't exceed the tax apron. However, the Suns didn't use the MLE last season or the Biannual Exception.
 

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To add to what you are saying, as I understand it, the taxpayer MLE, $7,021,000, is much lower than the standard MLE which is $11,368,000.

The Bi-annual exception is $4,448,000.

The use of the exceptions is all dependent upon the Suns staying under tax apron.

So after any trades, this is what the Suns have to work with, providing they don't exceed the tax apron. However, the Suns didn't use the MLE last season or the Biannual Exception.
It may be even less than that if this info is correct:

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It may be even less than that if this info is correct:

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I've seen both figures, depending upon the source. The lower numbers may well be the correct.
 

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I've seen both figures, depending upon the source. The lower numbers may well be the correct.
As far as superstars go Book and KD are easy to play with and JJ is well respected by players around the league. The AZ weather during bball season ain’t too shabby either. We will get some quality ring chasers.
 

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As far as superstars go Book and KD are easy to play with and JJ is well respected by players around the league. The AZ weather during bball season ain’t too shabby either. We will get some quality ring chasers.

Although James Jones didn't do well at the trade deadline and thereafter. The Suns playoff starters were only 4 players deep.
 

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As far as superstars go Book and KD are easy to play with and JJ is well respected by players around the league. The AZ weather during bball season ain’t too shabby either. We will get some quality ring chasers.

Old vet ring chasers usually make little to no impact. We gotta get good at finding younger guys that other teams failed to develop.
 

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Old vet ring chasers usually make little to no impact. We gotta get good at finding younger guys that other teams failed to develop.
True. But we have to build that system from the ground up. We need a full scouting and development group to rival the best in the league. And as far as I can tell, we are at the bottom in that regard. And despite our immediate needs I suspect it will take years to build up a first class organization like this.
 

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True. But we have to build that system from the ground up. We need a full scouting and development group to rival the best in the league. And as far as I can tell, we are at the bottom in that regard. And despite our immediate needs I suspect it will take years to build up a first class organization like this.

We've had some good finds with youngish guys off the scrap heap. Craig, Payne, Okogie.

Those guys all arrived on minimum deals and ended up playing, mostly, positive impact players.

Gotta find more of that... a lot more.
 

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I wouldn't want to pay Craig more much more than the minimum.

He was signed by the Pacers to a 2 year, $10 million dollar contract, so he was under contract with the Suns this past season for $5,121,951.
 

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This new Cba seems like it is going to screw all players except the superstars.

I think the players union f’d up badly.
 

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This new Cba seems like it is going to screw all players except the superstars.

I think the players union f’d up badly.

It looks like two stars and good role players will be the new model.

In retrospect, it looks like the Nuggets really knew what they were doing in regard to salary.

 

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This new Cba seems like it is going to screw all players except the superstars.

I think the players union f’d up badly.
I'm not sure how you're defining superstars but I think the point of it is to eventually reduce the number of players being paid like superstars. I especially expect that players that come available for their rookie extension contracts will be valuated much differently than they have been. So, no more Ayton or Dlo contracts.
 

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IDK, If you look around the league at guys that are truly available. There's not going to be any higher than KD, especially when he was available. Ishbia grabbed the top guy in the league who was available. It's still not a bad place to be, imho, to build around KD and Booker. We have seen Booker go to another level in play since KD joined the team. That alone made the trade a minor success. IF have both KD and Booker bring gravity to a higher notch of players coming to AZ, then it will be a success. If they can parlay that to a championship, then it can't be denied it worked. I think the story on if this trade really worked, doesn't really begin until now. This off season will give us an idea if this trade has leverage.
Yep. We’ve hashed that out repeatedly. Not to mention the Celtics would’ve been one more budding team in the KD sweepstakes this offseason and our offer couldn’t have beaten theirs that started with brown.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The Suns already made the Finals and set a record for franchise wins without Durant.

IMO, anything less than a championship after trading for Durant is a failure. He will be 35 when the season starts.

The Suns gave up a ton of assets to get him essentially shortening their window of opportunity now and into the future.
That window for that iteration of the team closed with Paul’s sudden decline and Ayton getting his desired check. In order to reopen a window they’d have to have made a trade. It would’ve cost them bridges and picks. As many picks? Who knows? Cam Johnson? Who knows? Who even knows if we could’ve resigned him? Depends on whom we traded for. But to become a contender again it would’ve required a trade. Maybe for a younger player which would’ve extended the run. Or maybe for an older player like Durant. What we do know is rarely does a player if durants caliber come available, so we likely wouldn’t have gotten a superstar. A star, or a couple nice players, maybe. And those picks were never going to bring much back because they were late picks. Think more Landry shamet type deals.
 

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Although James Jones didn't do well at the trade deadline and thereafter. The Suns playoff starters were only 4 players deep.
Though he wasn’t great for us, Ross was widely considered a top end buyout catch.
 

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The Suns had expiring contracts and draft picks last season.

It would have been so easy to improve the team both then and going forward without making such a high risk move by trading for Durant.

The Suns could have likely had Reggie Jackson (buy out) for a 2nd round pick. There were so many other good options, with the Suns keeping their core players at least until the summer.

The new CBA puts the Suns in a periless situation going forward. Now the Suns are dealing from a position of weakness, not power.
 

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That window for that iteration of the team closed with Paul’s sudden decline and Ayton getting his desired check. In order to reopen a window they’d have to have made a trade. It would’ve cost them bridges and picks. As many picks? Who knows? Cam Johnson? Who knows? Who even knows if we could’ve resigned him? Depends on whom we traded for. But to become a contender again it would’ve required a trade. Maybe for a younger player which would’ve extended the run. Or maybe for an older player like Durant. What we do know is rarely does a player if durants caliber come available, so we likely wouldn’t have gotten a superstar. A star, or a couple nice players, maybe. And those picks were never going to bring much back because they were late picks. Think more Landry shamet type deals.
Yep. The core of this team regressed. They were not going to get better with an aging CP3 and a stunted Ayton. A trade for a second star was required to keep that window open. Adding middling type players wasn’t going to get it done.
 

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The Suns had expiring contracts and draft picks last season.

It would have been so easy to improve the team both then and going forward without making such a high risk move by trading for Durant.

The Suns could have likely had Reggie Jackson (buy out) for a 2nd round pick. There were so many other good options, with the Suns keeping their core players at least until the summer.

The new CBA puts the Suns in a periless situation going forward. Now the Suns are dealing from a position of weakness, not power.
You keep bringing up Reggie Jackson, but he was pretty bad this year. Could it have been different with a role on the suns? Sure. Would I have liked to kick the tires? Sure. But that wasn’t going to move the needle.
 

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Kevin Durant didn't move the needle either, at least last season. There is a vast difference in terms of past and future cost. The Suns could have tweaked their roster with better results much like the Lakers.
 

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The Suns had expiring contracts and draft picks last season.

It would have been so easy to improve the team both then and going forward without making such a high risk move by trading for Durant.

The Suns could have likely had Reggie Jackson (buy out) for a 2nd round pick. There were so many other good options, with the Suns keeping their core players at least until the summer.

The new CBA puts the Suns in a periless situation going forward. Now the Suns are dealing from a position of weakness, not power.
Since when in the history of the Suns have we ever dealt with the NBA in a position of power? The lack of an NBA Championship points more to a history of weakness than power. Not attacking you at all. Just saying....
 

Covert Rain

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Kevin Durant didn't move the needle either, at least last season. There is a vast difference in terms of past and future cost. The Suns could have tweaked their roster with better results much like the Lakers.
He did. Until they were eliminating they were the best one/two punch in the playoffs. That wasn’t the problem. It was the supporting cast.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Kevin Durant didn't move the needle either, at least last season. There is a vast difference in terms of past and future cost. The Suns could have tweaked their roster with better results much like the Lakers.
What got the lakers going was Davis being healthy and returning to force. The moves they made have been oversold imo. And those same moves likely wouldn’t have been a huge difference maker for the suns (though I liked the two PFs they acquired).
 

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What got the lakers going was Davis being healthy and returning to force. The moves they made have been oversold imo. And those same moves likely wouldn’t have been a huge difference maker for the suns (though I liked the two PFs they acquired).
We had the same thing. We were going as far as how Ayton played at the end of the day. He flamed out against Denver, and that is where our story ended. For the Lakers, when AD is healthy, they have always been a power. Trouble is, he isn't always healthy.
 

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It's funny they say the NBA big man is dead. But you get towards the end of the playoffs and you see names like Jokic, Bam Adebayo, Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, etc. You may not need a dominant one, but you still need a good one.
 

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