Playoffs: Suns @ Nuggets Saturday game thread 4-29-2023- Game 1

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns do not have anyone on the injury report.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Suns do not have anyone on the injury report.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

welcome back cam.

 

[Hoop Head]

Who is the best defender on the Denver roster, and between Book and KD, who does that defensive player match up against best? Is it KCP on Booker or Aaron Gordon on KD?

You can't double both of them. So they take their best 1-1 matchup and double the other guy.

I think they'll put Gordon on Book and double KD. Just a guess. AG's size and length could bother Book. Why put him on KD if they're going to double anyways.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think they'll put Gordon on Book and double KD. Just a guess. AG's size and length could bother Book. Why put him on KD if they're going to double anyways.

If Gordon, a pf guards Book, who guards KD? Maybe DA can feast this game.

 

[Hoop Head]

If Gordon, a pf guards Book, who guards KD? Maybe DA can feast this game.

MPJ and a secondary defender. Like I said, they'll probably be doubling him most of the time which should allow them to assign a weaker primary defender.

The key, IMO, is to keep Book and Craig/Okogie on the opposite side of the key as KD. That way there isn't an easy secondary defender to pop over.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Denver tries a zone defense to help stop the midrange game and keep defenders spread out. The Suns don't shoot a lot of 3's so it would be daring us to shoot more if they go that route.

 

[Chaplin]

MPJ and a secondary defender. Like I said, they'll probably be doubling him most of the time which should allow them to assign a weaker primary defender.

The key, IMO, is to keep Book and Craig/Okogie on the opposite side of the key as KD. That way there isn't an easy secondary defender to pop over.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Denver tries a zone defense to help stop the midrange game and keep defenders spread out. The Suns don't shoot a lot of 3's so it would be daring us to shoot more if they go that route.

MPJ will be the worst defender in the series. Good luck

 

[Absolute Zero]

Can someone please provide an analysis of our starting 5 v. their starting 5, our bench v. their bench, who will guard who, etc.?

This is above my paygrade.

What's so damn funny? I was serious.

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Malone isn't Tye Lue. He will play more straight up, Gordon on KD for sure, likely more help towards Booker in this series since he is playing at such a high level, if Malone stick KCP on Book, he is going to destroy him. MPJ is going to likely float off that streaky shooter like JO or Craig the suns stick into the corner, that way you hide his mid defense and he can come help with his size. However, the major risk is Gordon getting into foul trouble on KD, I can easily see that happening. Then you have to double him and Book becomes essentially Kobe.

Denver is not a great defensive team, they won't be able to stop the Suns two All NBA scorers however, I am not sure about Paul, he is streaky but so is Murray. Denver is an offensive problem for sure. Jokic is legit and will pick the Suns apart at times.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

MPJ will be the worst defender in the series. Good luck

Agreed, he isn't 2021 MPJ, that was hideous. But his size is overrated and his lateral movement is not good at all, plus he tends to play less hard on defense so he can shoot, no way in hell does he see time on Book or KD unless he gets hunted into a bad switch. Even Malone knows he would get obliterated.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

What's so damn funny? I was serious.

Denver
Murray ----- Paul
Porter Jr ----- Float to JO or Torrey
Jokic ----------Ayton Probably defending lower if I am Denver I want DA push shots and hooks from 13 feet.
Gordon -------KD
KCP ---------- Booker

What I think the Suns could do if they had an Ty Lue
Okogie on Murray like a fly on ****
Book on Porter and times when needed shut down Murray.
KD making sure he is helping on the dunk wing side, normally Gordon
Ayton straight on Joker try to push the help so Joker is forced to kick to KCP, let him shoot
Paul on KCP since he is a guy that sits in the corner

Now Monty is weird so he will probably play it more straight up, both these coaches are tier 3 coaches with extremely talented teams so I don't expect many amazing adjustments. This series is going to be about Denver moving the ball, Murray being more consistent and not going to hero ball, they will not out shot make KD and Book. They just won't.

For the Suns, I'd run more KD pick and rolls as opposed to sitting him in the corner, especially since Gordon can float off him to help inside on Book drives, then have your other defender leave Paul or Okogie wide ass open and let them be 30 percent at best.

The pick and rolls with KD, and Ayton would create a almost impossible decision for Denver. Have Booker ready for the kick so he can drive or drill a middies, then repeat the span pick and roll with Booker and KD slashing. KD should not sit in the corner this series. This Denver team is ripe for KD to shred.

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[BirdGangThing]

Now Monty is weird so he will probably play it more straight up, both these coaches are tier 3 coaches with extremely talented teams so I don't expect many amazing adjustments. This series is going to be about Denver moving the ball, Murray being more consistent and not going to hero ball, they will not out shot make KD and Book. They just won't.

Both teams won their Round 1 series only losing a single game - while other high seeds have literally been eliminated. One team has been playing with an entirely new line up, created minutes before the playoffs started, and has only improved during that time span. While the other team led the NBA West in wins this year - because they're utilizing the Joker in spectacular fashion, and are also getting the most out of their other offensive players. One of these two teams is headed to the Western Conference Finals, 100%. To say they have "tier 3" coaches is borderline asinine imo.

 

[Chaplin]

Denver
Murray ----- Paul
Porter Jr ----- Float to JO or Torrey
Jokic ----------Ayton Probably defending lower if I am Denver I want DA push shots and hooks from 13 feet.
Gordon -------KD
KCP ---------- Booker

What I think the Suns could do if they had an Ty Lue
Okogie on Murray like a fly on ****
Book on Porter and times when needed shut down Murray.
KD making sure he is helping on the dunk wing side, normally Gordon
Ayton straight on Joker try to push the help so Joker is forced to kick to KCP, let him shoot
Paul on KCP since he is a guy that sits in the corner

Now Monty is weird so he will probably play it more straight up, both these coaches are tier 3 coaches with extremely talented teams so I don't expect many amazing adjustments. This series is going to be about Denver moving the ball, Murray being more consistent and not going to hero ball, they will not out shot make KD and Book. They just won't.

For the Suns, I'd run more KD pick and rolls as opposed to sitting him in the corner, especially since Gordon can float off him to help inside on Book drives, then have your other defender leave Paul or Okogie wide ass open and let them be 30 percent at best.

The pick and rolls with KD, and Ayton would create a almost impossible decision for Denver. Have Booker ready for the kick so he can drive or drill a middies, then repeat the span pick and roll with Booker and KD slashing. KD should not sit in the corner this series. This Denver team is ripe for KD to shred.

JO is made to defend Jamal Murray.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Denver
Murray ----- Paul
Porter Jr ----- Float to JO or Torrey
Jokic ----------Ayton Probably defending lower if I am Denver I want DA push shots and hooks from 13 feet.
Gordon -------KD
KCP ---------- Booker

What I think the Suns could do if they had an Ty Lue
Okogie on Murray like a fly on ****
Book on Porter and times when needed shut down Murray.
KD making sure he is helping on the dunk wing side, normally Gordon
Ayton straight on Joker try to push the help so Joker is forced to kick to KCP, let him shoot
Paul on KCP since he is a guy that sits in the corner

Now Monty is weird so he will probably play it more straight up, both these coaches are tier 3 coaches with extremely talented teams so I don't expect many amazing adjustments. This series is going to be about Denver moving the ball, Murray being more consistent and not going to hero ball, they will not out shot make KD and Book. They just won't.

For the Suns, I'd run more KD pick and rolls as opposed to sitting him in the corner, especially since Gordon can float off him to help inside on Book drives, then have your other defender leave Paul or Okogie wide ass open and let them be 30 percent at best.

The pick and rolls with KD, and Ayton would create a almost impossible decision for Denver. Have Booker ready for the kick so he can drive or drill a middies, then repeat the span pick and roll with Booker and KD slashing. KD should not sit in the corner this series. This Denver team is ripe for KD to shred.

See, that's the kind of quality information we need! Thanks @Treesquid !

 

[AzStevenCal]

Malone isn't Tye Lue. He will play more straight up, Gordon on KD for sure, likely more help towards Booker in this series since he is playing at such a high level, if Malone stick KCP on Book, he is going to destroy him. MPJ is going to likely float off that streaky shooter like JO or Craig the suns stick into the corner, that way you hide his mid defense and he can come help with his size. However, the major risk is Gordon getting into foul trouble on KD, I can easily see that happening. Then you have to double him and Book becomes essentially Kobe.

Denver is not a great defensive team, they won't be able to stop the Suns two All NBA scorers however, I am not sure about Paul, he is streaky but so is Murray. Denver is an offensive problem for sure. Jokic is legit and will pick the Suns apart at times.

Murray is streaky but his Kentucky rivalry with Devin always seems to bring out the best of him when he plays us.

He's averaged almost 28 points a game against Booker in his last 11 matchups. That's 6 points higher than Devin has averaged in his last 11 against Jamal (minus the Christmas day injury game where Devin only played 4 minutes). And Murray has been much more efficient against us than Devin has been against Denver.

Given the makeup of our current team, this is a matchup we need to dominate but history gives a solid edge to Murray. So, screw history Devin, go for 50 and don't miss.

 

[Absolute Zero]

The excitement is building!!!

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Both teams won their Round 1 series only losing a single game - while other high seeds have literally been eliminated. One team has been playing with an entirely new line up, created minutes before the playoffs started, and has only improved during that time span. While the other team led the NBA West in wins this year - because they're utilizing the Joker in spectacular fashion, and are also getting the most out of their other offensive players. One of these two teams is headed to the Western Conference Finals, 100%. To say they have "tier 3" coaches is borderline asinine imo.

Tier 3 coaches are good coaches in my book. I should have included a key.

Teir one coaches are the coaches you hate going against because of their basketball IQ winners so it's a very small club. (Kerr, Lue, Pop) Monty is not even close to this, sorry.
Tier 2 is small reserved for ring winners and up and coming coaches, the can have trouble dealing with super stars but often have enough experience (Monty fits here for up and coming teams. But I would say Spolstra (sp?) is a great example.
Tier 3 is wider and made up of good coaches but also tend to fit a role and struggle with super stars but are usually great for development, win coach of the year awards. Monty fits here with dealing with mega super stars and how to use them. Mike Brown fits here too.
Tier 4 The next level down kind of the retreads that move around.
Tier 5 coaches that poverty franchises hire, no experience, low salary, trying to break into the carousel.

Read, I am not saying Monty is a bad coach, but I do have questions if he can handle Mutiple super stars, I am not along btw, this is something even Monty has admitted he is struggling with. He called KD the most expensive decoy.

This Suns team is going to look a lot different next year. They know their holes, if you are going to beat them beat them this year, next year this team will be built around Booker and KD. Monty does need to prove he can handle two super stars (one who is arguably the greatest pure scorer in NBA history, sitting as a decoy, you think Lue would do that?), which isn't easy not many people can do it.

Monty's infatuation with Shamet, his immaturity dealing with Ayton and his giving up on Smith so early also shows a stubbornness and favoritism to non-performers.

Let's see if Monty adjusts, KD should be shredding this Denver team, he should crush that high pick and role. Move away from CP3 and Ayton and make it KD and Ayton, that is un guardable. If he makes those adjustments, I will be willing to move him up.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Murray is streaky but his Kentucky rivalry with Devin always seems to bring out the best of him when he plays us.

He's averaged almost 28 points a game against Booker in his last 11 matchups. That's 6 points higher than Devin has averaged in his last 11 against Jamal (minus the Christmas day injury game where Devin only played 4 minutes). And Murray has been much more efficient against us than Devin has been against Denver.

Given the makeup of our current team, this is a matchup we need to dominate but history gives a solid edge to Murray. So, screw history Devin, go for 50 and don't miss.

Post injury Book is on another level than Murray, he just is. I watched Murray in the Minn series, he hit some amazing shots, he will hit shots, he is amazing as a shooter. But he did look winded and out of it at times too, he wasn't consistent at all. He had a few meh games. Book is controlling games now, he is not just a shooter, he is weaving through defenses and making great passes. His shooting splits are incredible. Plus his defense is good, Murray is not a great defender.

 

[Hoop Head]

Tier 3 coaches are good coaches in my book. I should have included a key.

Teir one coaches are the coaches you hate going against because of their basketball IQ winners so it's a very small club. (Kerr, Lue, Pop) Monty is not even close to this, sorry.
Tier 2 is small reserved for ring winners and up and coming coaches, the can have trouble dealing with super stars but often have enough experience (Monty fits here for up and coming teams. But I would say Spolstra (sp?) is a great example.
Tier 3 is wider and made up of good coaches but also tend to fit a role and struggle with super stars but are usually great for development, win coach of the year awards. Monty fits here with dealing with mega super stars and how to use them. Mike Brown fits here too.
Tier 4 The next level down kind of the retreads that move around.
Tier 5 coaches that poverty franchises hire, no experience, low salary, trying to break into the carousel.

Read, I am not saying Monty is a bad coach, but I do have questions if he can handle Mutiple super stars, I am not along btw, this is something even Monty has admitted he is struggling with. He called KD the most expensive decoy.

This Suns team is going to look a lot different next year. They know their holes, if you are going to beat them beat them this year, next year this team will be built around Booker and KD. Monty does need to prove he can handle two super stars (one who is arguably the greatest pure scorer in NBA history, sitting as a decoy, you think Lue would do that?), which isn't easy not many people can do it.

Monty's infatuation with Shamet, his immaturity dealing with Ayton and his giving up on Smith so early also shows a stubbornness and favoritism to non-performers.

Let's see if Monty adjusts, KD should be shredding this Denver team, he should crush that high pick and role. Move away from CP3 and Ayton and make it KD and Ayton, that is un guardable. If he makes those adjustments, I will be willing to move him up.

There's a lot here to pick apart but this is the most puzzling. How has Monty been "immature" dealing with Ayton? I'd say Ayton has been immature and needs to be handled with kid gloves, which Monty has done a good job doing. He was praised for firing Ayton up 2 years ago when the timeout was shown on TV where he coached Ayton up and got him to break out of his funk. I don't see any sort of issues between Monty and Ayton where Monty deserves to be called immature. They did get into it last postseason but Monty kept his cool despite Ayton displaying his own immaturity and selfishness by refusing to check back into the game. So please, elaborate on why you feel that way.

 

[BirdGangThing]

There's a lot here to pick apart but this is the most puzzling. How has Monty been "immature" dealing with Ayton? I'd say Ayton has been immature and needs to be handled with kid gloves, which Monty has done a good job doing. He was praised for firing Ayton up 2 years ago when the timeout was shown on TV where he coached Ayton up and got him to break out of his funk. I don't see any sort of issues between Monty and Ayton where Monty deserves to be called immature. They did get into it last postseason but Monty kept his cool despite Ayton displaying his own immaturity and selfishness by refusing to check back into the game. So please, elaborate on why you feel that way.

Not only that but I don't remember Monty "giving up" on Jalen Smith, I do however remember Jones trading Jalen Smith for Torrey Craig. And tbh the only 5 tier system I think ever heard of was in some time share pitch I once heard when I was in Vegas lol but I got free show tickets for listening

 

[Hoop Head]

Not only that but I don't remember Monty "giving up" on Jalen Smith but I do remember Jones trading Jalen Smith for Torrey Craig. And tbh the only 5 tier system I think ever heard of was in some time share pitch I once heard when I was in Vegas lol but I got free show tickets for listening

I like how Stix fell off this year too. Don't get me wrong, the Suns definitely mishandled him from even selecting him as high as they did but JJ made the mistake of declining the option, Sarver sold the G-League team, and we were a legit contender so playing a rookie who'd shown nothing that was out at the end of the season wasn't in Monty's interest, or anyone's other than Stix himself. He did play well when when we were undermanned but he hasn't done a lot since teams were able to see what he was capable of and counter it. Can't have it both ways either, we wouldn't have Torrey Craig right now if Stix wasn't dealt for him. Craig had a better season than Jalen this year as well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There's a lot here to pick apart but this is the most puzzling. How has Monty been "immature" dealing with Ayton? I'd say Ayton has been immature and needs to be handled with kid gloves, which Monty has done a good job doing. He was praised for firing Ayton up 2 years ago when the timeout was shown on TV where he coached Ayton up and got him to break out of his funk. I don't see any sort of issues between Monty and Ayton where Monty deserves to be called immature. They did get into it last postseason but Monty kept his cool despite Ayton displaying his own immaturity and selfishness by refusing to check back into the game. So please, elaborate on why you feel that way.

I think we're too far removed from the inner circle to really know whether the rumored clashes with Ayton, CP3 and Crowder are on Monty or if they fall more to the player.

I know Monty is headstrong, I know CP3 is headstrong, I suspect Jae is headstrong and I'm pretty sure Ayton is a little overly sensitive. What happened, who caused it, we don't know. However, I am disappointed that Monty appeared to have done nothing to try to resolve his conflict with DA or Jae.